EPTNaNi vs NesTea (SPOILERS) - Page 37
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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. | ||
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:24 clusen wrote: "all the pros" aka 2 foreigners that threw matches before :p Koreans don't seem to share that opinion. I think it's sad that both players did not treat it as a grudgematch with pride on the line, even tho it's kinda understandable from Nani's pov  Tyler holds the same opinion from what i have read. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:21 hkf wrote: I'll give naniwa till end of the week to be either kicked from qantic. Either kicked or ... ? Was that a threat or something?  As for the meaningless game argument, I'd like to point out two things. A) In other sports, players still compete after losing the possibility of winning. For example, last week Real Madrid played Ajax, and even though RM has guaranteed the top spot, they still played most of their A team, played attacking football and took down Ajax 3-0 (ruining Ajax's chances of going through). Everybody lauded this, and there was a full stadium watching the game. I do hope SC2 players don't think their time and effort in a game so vastly outweighs the effort RM puts into a game, that they cannot afford to play a game. B) Secondly, meaningful is ambiguous. It could mean that it affects a player's chances at winning. In this case, the game between Naniwa and Nestea was meaningless. But the second meaning asks for the meaning of the game. After so much hype by commentators, organizers, teams and Naniwa and Nestea themselves, tons of people were looking forward to the game happening. In that sense, the game was incredibly meaninful for many fans, as would have been evident for anyone looking at threads/twitter accounts etc before the match started. | ||
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
it's funny because it's true If naniwa vs nestea had to be played out even when a winner (or in this case, both of them are losers in the pool), then all boX should be played to the last game even if a winner is already determined. | ||
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Giriath
Sweden2412 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:23 Derez wrote: 'Now the issue has been brought to light'? That's quite possibly the absolute worst explanation so far. The GSL has been nothing but aware of flaws in their format and have been actively fixing it and improving it. There are no irrelevant matches in the GSL anymore, except for the the maximum two bo1's this could have happened this tournament. There's no structural issue with the GSL tournament format here that needed to be adressed. If GOM were aware of their format flaws they wouldn't have made this one, where players who have lost are obligated to keep playing. They also wouldn't have made the changes they've made to the GSTL. | ||
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Lolli92
Germany109 Posts
I don't say Nani did the right thing but the only repressions that should come of of this is a bad image of his personality nothing else. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:24 strongandbig wrote: To be fair, only the foreigner progamers. For me, I agree with people who said that there were much, much better ways for this to go. Naniwa shouldn't have probe rushed; by doing that, he was just rubbing the Koreans' faces in it. Honestly, it seems like Naniwa was trying to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't want to play his best against Nestea for nothing but pride, but he was too proud just to fourgate or proxy two gate and lose. By probe rushing, he gets to avoid playing his best but he also denies Nestea the pride of beating him in something that an audience could think of as a real game. I would be fine with either reaction between trying hard and doing a quick cheese, but there's really no reason to rub everyone's faces in it. Exactly. Is this really that big of a deal? No. Was it a douchebag move by Naniwa? Yes. If he wants to keep making life harder for himself then by all means. But he can blame only himself when he finds that most people don't like him. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:14 Myrista wrote: >idra throws his match against jinro omg this is actually so smart, he cantwin on this map anyway and it might have worked >idra throws his match against mc zerg isnt supposed to beat protoss anyway >idra refuses to play his IPL3 group matches omg this is so smart, this way he doesnt have to show his builds and he can rest more, only idra can think of something this smart >naniwa sees no point in playing a game that changes nothing BURN HIM, KICK HIM FROM GSL AND BAN HIM FROM SC2, WORSE THAN SAVIOR SCUM. really classy TL/Reddit. just shut up, you're exaggerating this hardcore. this is worse than the CoCa incident, jesus christ the kid wanted a 3rd game and he gets kicked from slayers and GSL? I can't even begin to say how ridiculous this is. First, IdrA's early pool aggression against Jinro was completely based upon map balance. His "throwing" of a game against MC did receive a TON of flack, even from his own teamates and others here on tl. IdrA didn't play out his games, but neither did an entire group that IdrA had nothing to do with; it just so happened IdrA had additional motivation based upon an awful sleep schedule. Don't accuse others of exaggerating when you're doing it worse than everybody else. | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:23 mEatBucket wrote: "Can't believe that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer" How's the pause game into rock, paper or scissors strat going for you Choya? lol, it was freaking ladder, no one would have thought of the consequences like that. Beside, it has nothing to do with professionalism | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:27 IMPrime wrote: it's funny because it's true If naniwa vs nestea had to be played out even when a winner (or in this case, both of them are losers in the pool), then all boX should be played to the last game even if a winner is already determined. Thinking about it that's kind of good point. GOM should just not have played the game. To be honest, the only thing Naniwa could possibly have provided with that game is entertainment. And to all the people who would for some reason enjoy watching two players not really try to win, I ask you one question. With all the resulting drama, the media response, the Korean outrage, the Tyler and Idra quotes, Well? | ||
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Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:24 Eggah wrote: It's making light of the situation... as many people are saying that even though the match didn't matter Naniwa should have played it.. so hes taking these peoples views to their logical destination and saying why isn't every meaningless match played (e.g the ones in a BO3?). Ok. I also agree btw, seems like Naniwa is getting a lot of hate even though what he did was just logical. Seems useless to bust out the sickest strat in a game that doesn't matter. | ||
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Syth
36 Posts
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zidaneshead
245 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:10 Giriath wrote: Tournaments and the livelihood of E-Sports professional play exists because there are fans, yes, but there would be no tournaments or E-Sports if the players did not get some form (or at least the chance of) compensation for their public matches, because all matches would be bad. I would argue that NaNiWa actually did good, deciding not to play at all instead of playing a bad match. If he asked to forfeit the match beforehand, then it is even more GOM's fault for focing players to play matches they have no motivation to play. I'm not arguing that they don't deserve to be compensated, they do, and that's what we're all trying to do right? Put the money into the sport, for the current players and for future ones? A lot of that money comes from sponsors, but the sponsors don't invest if there aren't fans that passionately follow SC2 and invest their own dollars into the sport itself and the products that respect and support the sport. So yes, at the end of the day, the fan base is the core of any successful sport, or game, or whatever people want to call it. | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:31 Syth wrote: Its a little pathetic how worked up people get over the most irrelevant sh1t hey don't forget to put imo at the end | ||
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
Never. So stop acting like this is even remotely similar. This is Starcraft 2. | ||
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mEatBucket
Sweden45 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:30 brachester wrote: lol, it was freaking ladder, no one would have thought of the consequences like that. Beside, it has nothing to do with professionalism None of them played their games? Only difference is Choya recieved ladderpoints for a win, Nani wouldn't get shit. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:21 hkf wrote: I'll give naniwa till end of the week to be either kicked from qantic or moved to another team. This is the team that hired Destiny. And sent him to Korea. Naniwa will be fine. His relationship with Startale is what I would be worried about, considering how important practicing with them will be to Naniwa's time in Korea. Actually, I would be kind of worried about whether this would fuck up the Quantic-Startale proposed secret partnership thing. | ||
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IndridCold
United States385 Posts
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AndyGB4
Canada156 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:12 Erionn wrote: Greg Fields @idrajit 1 min dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously. Funny how all the pros have the same opinion on this matter, isn't it? All the pros? So far I've only read about IdrA and Tyler who share that opinion. A large amount of Korean Pros are actually against that opinion and found Naniwa's decision to be very disrespectful. (Choya, Nestea, MC, IM coach, IMMVP, the MVP team, GuineaPig, and even MarineKing) If you dont believe me, check here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=294325 If anything, perhaps it shows how foreign pros and Korean pros look at SC2 differently. | ||
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Giriath
Sweden2412 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:24 strongandbig wrote: To be fair, only the foreigner progamers. For me, I agree with people who said that there were much, much better ways for this to go. Naniwa shouldn't have probe rushed; by doing that, he was just rubbing the Koreans' faces in it. Honestly, it seems like Naniwa was trying to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't want to play his best against Nestea for nothing but pride, but he was too proud just to fourgate or proxy two gate and lose. By probe rushing, he gets to avoid playing his best but he also denies Nestea the pride of beating him in something that an audience could think of as a real game. I would be fine with either reaction between trying hard and doing a quick cheese, but there's really no reason to rub everyone's faces in it. 'Only the foreigner progamers.' I suppose Nestea don't count huh? Koreans and Asians in general are less forthright with their opinions, especially in public. That doesn't mean they don't like playing matches where they have nothing to win, especially when they are upset about their recent losses. It would be funny if this kind of format were more prevalent, because god damn all you guys would quickly change your preference of rather watching half-assed play than moving on to the real competitive play that only exists when there is something to win. And then you would whine again, because apparently that is what this community does best. | ||
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