On November 10 2011 10:26 Happylime wrote: Okay so go back to being under a rock, if you don't trust era documents then you probably don't trust any major historical documents, don't be silly.
Trusting any information coming for a single source? Thats stupid to me, but that may just be me then...
*Lifts rock and crawls back*
There is so much written about the Rothschild family during this era, it is impossible to ignore. Even the Prime ministers and monarchs acknowledged them as the biggest power in europe. Just for one example,The British Prime Minister Lloyd George claimed, in 1909, that Lord Nathan Rothschild was the most powerful man in Britain
On November 10 2011 08:29 Thrill wrote: Most of this is the stuff of common conspiracy theories fueled by blatant anti antisemitism.
But yes, there's certainly a point to there being money that isn't taxed. There's lots of it and these guys aren't the only ones who have it.
You're overestimating today's influence of money though. In the Napoleonic wars soldiers went where they were paid and fed. Today we have only one superpower and when it's in financial trouble, we're talking trillions. Sums so vast they dwarf the collective assets of that "1%" you're talking about.
No private interest, not even a Rothschild, can bail out nations today. The monetary system simply works differently. You can't control $'s the way you could bouillons.
What is this non-sense? Legal tender today is almost completely fiat money (paper). The Fed Reserve can bail out anyone and everyone they want to and have (The partial audit we got revealed 16 Trillion in loans / bailouts to foreign banks and Governments & Private interests like JP Morgan / Goldman Sachs / Citi / McDonalds / etc. etc.). Paper money is only limited by the amount of numbers you can print on a piece of paper (which using font .2 could probably end up being 10^60 which means paper is always and everywhere become worthless).
It seems you have no idea how the monetary system works in todays world. It won't last long -- you are living in the age of Fiat Collapse. All the paper money is racing towards zero.
Besides, Governments have always been under the influence of the most wealthy. The ones who need to be outed are those who receive Government immunities, graft, and privilege.
Also, the second richest person in the world if I remember is the Queen of England. She still controls a vast majority of the world.
You dispel his contention with even more preposterous conspiracy theorist garbage? I'm going to guess you like Ron Paul. No, money is worth something because we agree it is and because people keep working and making things. Gold is no more inherently valuable (as a conductor, it's great. But there's no mythical reason pegging currency to it will save the world).
Thanks to Ron Paul we know a bit more than we use to, but it was only a partial audit. We need to pass the actual Audit and Eliminate the Federal Reserve. If you like your money constantly being devalued to bail out the banks special buddies and interests, then continue the agitprop for the Fed. As far as Gold, it has always been money and still is today, the problem is it is not recognized as legal tender (even though it is and it is the only Constitutional money with Silver), because the people had no idea about money and banking, but that is changing quickly. (Gold & Silver have the best properties for being money, hence it always emerges out of the market as the recognized monies)
Also the Government consistently uses their violent powers to throw those people in jail who do not want to use the paper money:
You should really read the notes in the Constitutional Convention in regards to 'Emit Bills of Credit' (fiat paper monies) which was quickly taken out. There is no authority for paper money either Federally, or on a State level. It is in fact, illegal, but when has the Government followed their contract with the States?
The committee of detail, which drew up the initial draft of the Constitution, explicitly gave the federal government the power "to emit bills on the credit of the United States." They presented their work to the full convention for consideration on 6 August 1787. The debate was soon joined. Although some delegates spoke in favor of granting the power (including James Madison), the majority were resolutely opposed.
Oliver Ellsworth of Connecticut remarked that since "the mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made were now fresh in the public mind, and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America, [it was] "a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. … The power may do harm, never good." George Read of Delaware warned that the power "if not struck out, would be as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation." John Langdon of New Hampshire said that he would "rather reject the whole plan than retain the three words 'and emit bills.'" The vote was then taken. Nine states voted for striking out the phrase "and emit bills on the credit of the United States." Only two states (New Jersey and Maryland) voted to retain it.
The heroic Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts was so alarmed by the prospect of the federal government having this power that he wanted an explicit prohibition, but the other delegates thought it unnecessary. Experience soon vindicated Gerry's apprehension and desire for additional safeguards.
This is all garbage. My god I'm am taking my head out of this thread immediately. I suggest you folks do the same. There's no point in arguing with each other here now that I've seen this bullshit.
Everything I wrote is the truth. You can read the Constitutional Conventions own notes, the GAO partial audit, and the proceedings and writings in regards to Von NotHaus. You can put your head in the sand, but that doesn't change the facts. If you use monies other than FRN's in payment of debts and other activities you are considered a domestic terrorist. The Government and its ancillary the stakeholders in the Fed, do not want any competition. If you got rid of legal tender laws (which are unconstitutional), the taxes on Gold & Silver, and allowed people to choose what they want to transact in, FRN's would disappear quite fast because why on Earth would you want to keep money which is constantly being devalued (ie; you are being stolen from by counterfeiters). If today there is 500$ in circulation and you own 200$ then tomorrow the issuing entity creates 500$ more new money and gives it to his friends you have just been robbed from because your purchasing power has been drastically reduced. This is the great gift of hard money or commodity money which it can not be manipulated like paper money, and it has a natural limitation on the lusts and grandeurs of Governments and their agents & it safeguards your time and labor.
This is hilarious. I was just reading about the family today out of curiosity. They are very famous for re-inventing investment banking as well. There strategy was not to be as big as the banks today, but rather they strove for quality (of relationships with their clients). Their firms were just as global as the next bank, though.
I'm very curious as to how they acquired all their wealth. In particular, how it all began. Once you have millions, it is easier to make more millions. The true challenge lies in the beginning.
How come people use the word "conspiracy" as if it dictates whether or not something is true?
Their family fortune is probably even greater now than it was in 1850. They've had their hands in the steel companies, the bomb builders, the defense givers, the world banks, real estate, multiple fortune 500 companies. With the kind of money they have they can buyout a good portion of a commodity and then artificially drive the commodity through the roof, making themselves even richer. They sold guns to the both sides of the war in ww2 and almost every war thereafter.
There's even a story floating around about how they are descendants of the Mirovingian bloodline and that bloodline is directly tied to Jesus Christ (JC having a child with Mary Magdelene). This is interesting because the Vatican supposedly believes the anti-christ will be from the same bloodline, so they have been trying to off them the whole time.
This is why modern views on religion are breaking away from the church. You're being controlled and taught to act against GOD by sinning (have sex, be a glutton, envy others, it's all television, music and subliminal messaging techniques).
The storyline also frames the Vatican as having been involved in money laundering schemes with the Grey Wolves (afghani heroin) as well as south american cocaine tzars, mexican drug gangs and of course the CIA.
According to this storyline the Vatican and the clan Rothschild are basically at war with each other over control for mankind. Both sides have been gaining and losing ground. Both sides have a ton of money and use their own tricks to get people to be their agents.
Before you call me a conspiracy theorist, please note I don't believe this. It's just a story.
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -President Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence
"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes. Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government. Equality of talents, of education, or of wealth can not be produced by human institutions. In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society — the farmers, mechanics, and laborers — who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government. There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -President Andrew Jackson, Veto Mesage Regarding the Bank of the United States [2] (10 July 1832)
Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out! -President Andrew Jacksson, confronting a board of european bankers in 1834
On November 10 2011 10:36 Invictus212 wrote: This is hilarious. I was just reading about the family today out of curiosity. They are very famous for re-inventing investment banking as well. There strategy was not to be as big as the banks today, but rather they strove for quality (of relationships with their clients). Their firms were just as global as the next bank, though.
I'm very curious as to how they acquired all their wealth. In particular, how it all began. Once you have millions, it is easier to make more millions. The true challenge lies in the beginning.
This first one got rich by gold speculating or something like that I believe. Read it in a book about the history of finance. can't remember exactly how it happened but the guy pretty much became a billionaire overnight.
On November 10 2011 10:36 Invictus212 wrote: This is hilarious. I was just reading about the family today out of curiosity. They are very famous for re-inventing investment banking as well. There strategy was not to be as big as the banks today, but rather they strove for quality (of relationships with their clients). Their firms were just as global as the next bank, though.
I'm very curious as to how they acquired all their wealth. In particular, how it all began. Once you have millions, it is easier to make more millions. The true challenge lies in the beginning.
They were given Government monopoly / privileges on the minting of money & banking.
Give anyone this power and they'll be as rich as the Rothschild's. This is why it is so important to get banking and money completely away from Government.
For a second I thought this was about the illuminati but then your disclaimer managed to convince me otherwise, but I'm still not too sure.
Money in families isn't that common anymore unless you count the inherited fortunes of the Walton brothers and the princes in Saudi Arabia. Most billionaires today are self made, bu nostalgia is cool I guess. The British also used to own three quarters of the globe, but now they're about the size of Rhode Island.
Fun fact: Rothschild hates obama. When Obama defeated hilllary (whom the rothschild lobbists had funded with a great amount of money) they went over to McCain Palin.
according to Lynn Forester de Rothschild, Obama is an elitist.
On November 10 2011 10:51 keiraknightlee wrote: For a second I thought this was about the illuminati but then your disclaimer managed to convince me otherwise, but I'm still not too sure.
Money in families isn't that common anymore unless you count the inherited fortunes of the Walton brothers and the princes in Saudi Arabia. Most billionaires today are self made, bu nostalgia is cool I guess. The British also used to own three quarters of the globe, but now they're about the size of Rhode Island.
Things change, stop being stuck in the past
Billionares are self made. but Trillionares are heirs to the great old families. I have no source but im pretty sure Rockefeller is up there with the Rothschild, along with the queen of Holland.
On November 10 2011 10:51 keiraknightlee wrote: For a second I thought this was about the illuminati but then your disclaimer managed to convince me otherwise, but I'm still not too sure.
Money in families isn't that common anymore unless you count the inherited fortunes of the Walton brothers and the princes in Saudi Arabia. Most billionaires today are self made, bu nostalgia is cool I guess. The British also used to own three quarters of the globe, but now they're about the size of Rhode Island.
It is also interesting to note that the third baron of the english branch, Lord Victor, was a communist. During college he was a member of a secret maxist club and four of his closest friends and college roomates would later be sentanced for leaking information to the SSR. they were soviet spies. Some accused Lord Rothschild for being a soviet agent aswell, but he was never charged in court.
The Rothschilds have made business with russia since the russian revolution. The Tsar refused to do business with foreigners, so some people claim that wealthy europeans supported the revolution to set up a trade route. It is a well established fact that Josef Stalin himself worked for the Russian Rothschild Office before he got a position in the communist party. After the fall of SSR, Rothschild Invested in huge amounts in Russian Oil through Mikhail Khodorkovsky. It was officially revealed that after Khodorskovsky's arrest, his shares in the oil tycoon company were passed to Lord Jacob Rothschild. The shares were estimated to be worth $13.5 billion
On November 10 2011 11:06 sc2holar wrote: It is also interesting to note that the third baron of the english branch, Lord Victor, was a communist. During college he was a member of a secret maxist club and four of his closest friends and college roomates would later be sentanced for leaking information to the SSR. they were soviet spies. Some accused Lord Rothschild for being a soviet agent aswell, but he was never charged in court.
The more I look into this the more likely it seems to me that this whole thing is blown way out of proportions and while this family may be extremely rich, it looks like the nearly "mythical" and "legendary" feel of this whole deal managed to heavily screw with modern accounts of how much they own and how influential they can be.
Maybe I'm completely wrong though, but I'm skeptical.
"This family is extremely secretive" + Outrageously high $ figures... Seems like nice stories.
Does the family have trillion(s)...? Maybe... That would surprise me... I wish there was a way to know. Does one person in the world have over a trillion dollar to their name (like a member of this family)... I HIGHLY doubt so...
On November 10 2011 10:39 sc2holar wrote: "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -President Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence
"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes. Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government. Equality of talents, of education, or of wealth can not be produced by human institutions. In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society — the farmers, mechanics, and laborers — who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government. There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -President Andrew Jackson, Veto Mesage Regarding the Bank of the United States [2] (10 July 1832)
Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out! -President Andrew Jacksson, confronting a board of european bankers in 1834
I thought you were trying to keep this thread apolitical? Or are you trying to derail your own thread?
On November 10 2011 10:39 sc2holar wrote: "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -President Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence
"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes. Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government. Equality of talents, of education, or of wealth can not be produced by human institutions. In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society — the farmers, mechanics, and laborers — who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government. There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -President Andrew Jackson, Veto Mesage Regarding the Bank of the United States [2] (10 July 1832)
Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out! -President Andrew Jacksson, confronting a board of european bankers in 1834
I thought you were trying to keep this thread apolitical? Or are you trying to derail your own thread?
Im not taking a political stand, im just posting interesting relevant historic quotes.
who gives a shit if they have the modern equivalent of 400 trillion? obviously if forbes doesn't recognize it because it's non-taxable it all has to be stashed away and out of circulation, which makes it as good as worthless. i don't even believe that any one of them actually controls more than several billion, and even if they did have access to 400 trillion what would it be good for? over about 100 billion you reach a point where everything in life is basically free, and yet the majority of the rothschilds have lived rather miserable lives. good majority of them grew up in sheltered microcosms and wanted to live conventional lives, but were forced into a life of upright aristocracy and banking. read any one of the multitude of biographies on these individuals and chances are they spent time collecting some fancy cars, collected some exotic bugs, ran some obscure bank, met some big wig from some other company, got married, was unhappy, got divorced soon after, bought some estate and lived in relative isolation, was introduced to someone else while out in a vineyard, got married, had a child, got divorced again. thrilling.
EPT
