|
On September 09 2011 11:42 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:36 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:31 BlueBird. wrote:On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. ![[image loading]](http://teamfinlayson.co.uk/funnystuff/tradition.jpg) On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you. But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them. As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me. I'm Catholic and Jewish, I don't celebrate either religions. I don't do Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, etc. None of it. Not because I reject the religion, I just don't have an interest. I do, however, respect and acknowledge that religion played a moral curve to me. It taught me basic moral values that helped me live and fundamentally cooperate with society and the world (along with other factors). I'm baptized and circumcised and I'm fine with both. Their intentions aren't to force you into a religion or label you as XYZ religion, they're just using religion as a tool to guide you to grow up properly and with understanding of the rights and wrongs in life. I do love Passover though. Your missing my point, and I didn't mean to give the impression that I think that teaching religion to a child is wrong, that's an entirely different discussion and leading off the course of this thread. I personally would never raise a child as an particular religion or faith, but to each his own. However, altering that child's body because of their religion could be wrong.. Just cause you and maybe even most, were fine with that, doesn't mean that all are going to be. Maybe your just fine with it cause that's how you've known your penis to be your whole life, just like me. Maybe if I wasn't when I was young, I would be totally completely mad at anyone wanting to cut off part of my penis.
You're right, I missed the point. Sorry.
What part of that penis does it do? Like, what is its function? The reasonings behind my circumcision are more than just religion, but I associate it with religion. I'm not heavily religion, but I do take pride my religion and am fine, accepting with the decision taken from me (since it doesn't affect my life as a whole).
|
On September 09 2011 11:45 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:42 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:39 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:38 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:36 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:31 BlueBird. wrote:On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you. But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them. As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me. I'm Catholic and Jewish, I don't celebrate either religions. I don't do Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, etc. None of it. Not because I reject the religion, I just don't have an interest. I do, however, respect and acknowledge that religion played a moral curve to me. It taught me basic moral values that helped me live and fundamentally cooperate with society and the world (along with other factors). I'm baptized and circumcised and I'm fine with both. Their intentions aren't to force you into a religion or label you as XYZ religion, they're just using religion as a tool to guide you to grow up properly and with understanding of the rights and wrongs in life. I do love Passover though. Yes, thank God your parents cut off your foreskin, otherwise you never would have understood to love thy neighbor as thyself. Point being, I don't have an issue with it. But it doesn't matter whether you have an issue with it. It's a matter of whether your child will have an issue with it. It's not your body that you're irreversibly modifying. History says he won't. If he does, we can talk about it and see if it is truly an issue or there is an underlying issue that is associated with his circumcision. I don't see why circumcision is an issue. Is a young adult really going to fit with his parents about a decision he has no conscious memory of ever recalling being taken away from him?
I could make this exact same argument about female circumcision. It's simply the principle of the matter. You do not have the right to irreversibly modify your child's body for cosmetic or ritual purposes.
|
The only argument that I'm going to make is a simple one.
I've never seen an uncircumcised penis that I've liked. My own penis, although circumcised, still brings me large amounts of pleasure. If you put this all of this information into a pie chart you will see that in my case circumcision, takes up 97% of the preferred penis in my life. Based on this knowledge we should quit worrying about each others dicks (literally).
I don't know if I'd have my son circumcised or not. I will say that if he popped out today I'd probably prefer it. Most females from the US expect uncircumcised penises, and pre-mature ejaculation is already a big of enough issue for most men in the world so I won't worry much about his lack of pleasure. I just want to give my son the best advantage as possible in life.
|
On September 09 2011 11:45 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:42 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:39 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:38 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:36 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:31 BlueBird. wrote:On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you. But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them. As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me. I'm Catholic and Jewish, I don't celebrate either religions. I don't do Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, etc. None of it. Not because I reject the religion, I just don't have an interest. I do, however, respect and acknowledge that religion played a moral curve to me. It taught me basic moral values that helped me live and fundamentally cooperate with society and the world (along with other factors). I'm baptized and circumcised and I'm fine with both. Their intentions aren't to force you into a religion or label you as XYZ religion, they're just using religion as a tool to guide you to grow up properly and with understanding of the rights and wrongs in life. I do love Passover though. Yes, thank God your parents cut off your foreskin, otherwise you never would have understood to love thy neighbor as thyself. Point being, I don't have an issue with it. But it doesn't matter whether you have an issue with it. It's a matter of whether your child will have an issue with it. It's not your body that you're irreversibly modifying. History says he won't. If he does, we can talk about it and see if it is truly an issue or there is an underlying issue that is associated with his circumcision. I don't see why circumcision is an issue. Is a young adult really going to fit with his parents about a decision he has no conscious memory of ever recalling being taken away from him?
If it won't matter then I'd rather not hurt someone else. I wouldn't even let my children close to someone who thinks otherwise.
|
Don't go no foreskin here; don't got no problem. I like the look of it, I get some added comfort of no foreskin-related infections and I most certainly can not remember it happening. That said, I don't think it really needs to be done. I haven't heard of any foreskin-related epidemics, sooooo... yea, I'd assume that you'd be completely fine if you washed properly.
|
On September 09 2011 11:46 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:44 Torte de Lini wrote:
but the best medium would be that in times of major decisions both my consent or view with my parent's own judgement would be the best middle-path.
Ahem. Does this not directly lead to not performing infant circumcisions? Wait until you can get the consent of your kid as well before performing cosmetic surgeries on him.
At first I could not see the benefits of having a circumcision, despite being told about the problems suffered by some men with a long or tight foreskin. When I left school I went into catering and found myself working in a hot and sticky environment all day. Needless to say, I got very sweaty under my foreskin and it was sometimes quite unpleasant, just as my friend had predicted it might be, however I still didn't want to consider circumcision.
As I left my teens I got myself a regular girlfriend and at this point discovered that when I had a very hard erection my tight frenulum not only hurt but also pulled on the back of the glans and made the piss slit point down at right angles to my shaft. My girlfriend suggested that this was not right and could interfere with proper sex. I remembered what my friend had said and so I asked her if she thought I ought to be circumcised. She considered this to be a very good idea.
Reading further on, it seems the circumcision process is rather unpainful. That's a relief.
http://www.circinfo.com/an_account.html
Oh, to answer your question: yes it would. However I stand by my stance, despite its potential irrationality (as you can tell, I'm also rational to alternative ideas) and would probably sit down with the mrs. and talk it out. See how she feels.
Better?
|
On September 09 2011 11:45 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:42 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:39 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:38 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:36 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:31 BlueBird. wrote:On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you. But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them. As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me. I'm Catholic and Jewish, I don't celebrate either religions. I don't do Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, etc. None of it. Not because I reject the religion, I just don't have an interest. I do, however, respect and acknowledge that religion played a moral curve to me. It taught me basic moral values that helped me live and fundamentally cooperate with society and the world (along with other factors). I'm baptized and circumcised and I'm fine with both. Their intentions aren't to force you into a religion or label you as XYZ religion, they're just using religion as a tool to guide you to grow up properly and with understanding of the rights and wrongs in life. I do love Passover though. Yes, thank God your parents cut off your foreskin, otherwise you never would have understood to love thy neighbor as thyself. Point being, I don't have an issue with it. But it doesn't matter whether you have an issue with it. It's a matter of whether your child will have an issue with it. It's not your body that you're irreversibly modifying. History says he won't. If he does, we can talk about it and see if it is truly an issue or there is an underlying issue that is associated with his circumcision. I don't see why circumcision is an issue. Is a young adult really going to fit with his parents about a decision he has no conscious memory of ever recalling being taken away from him?
I certainly hope he would at least learn from it to not do it to his children. I know I would be really pissed if I had been circumcised, and would take every possible measure to reverse it as much as possible.
Circumcision should be made illegal to children under 18. There is little to no proven health benefit that can't be gained through other(more reasonable) means, and you're cutting off part of your son's penis without his say in it. That's fucked up. If the son grows up and then feels that he needs circumcision, that's his choice, but doing it to a child? Cutting off part of the penis without even giving him the choice? Ridiculous.
|
Oh, I'm done with this topic by the way. I hope I played a good devil's advocate ;3!
(might be using that word wrong).
|
On September 09 2011 11:50 Torte de Lini wrote:Reading further on, it seems the circumcision process is rather unpainful. That's a relief. http://www.circinfo.com/an_account.htmlOh, to answer your question: yes it would. However I stand by my stance, despite its potential irrationality (as you can tell, I'm also rational to alternative ideas) and would probably sit down with the mrs. and talk it out. See how she feels. Better?
No, unless it's your wife's genitals you're cutting shit off of, then her consent is pretty moot as to the morality of the action.
Also, I don't know if you missed my earlier response to you where I told you that I personally was circumcised at age 18 due to phimosis. As a result, I am well aware of the complications that can arise from having a natural penis. However, I'm still happy that my parents let me have the choice to get the procedure done rather than making the decision for me when I couldn't say no.
|
I'd rather abstain from sex instead of mutilating myself to look better or not get ill. The mere thought of doing it to someone else is disgusting.
|
Dicks look the same erect circumsised or not, this entire "aesthetic" thing is bullshit.
Something else that is bullshit is saying it's okay because it's cultural. We get all outraged when African tribes remove the clits of women at birth for cultural reasons, why is it that cutting the end of a dick is okay?
The answer, whether you'll admit it or not, is because it happened to you, and because you grew up with it being the norm, you accept it as such. No, fuck you, ritualistically maiming baby dick is not the norm.
I agree, the OP is incredibly biased, but in this case it's justified. I wouldn't, for example, give a fair analysis giving the pros and cons of the rape of Nanking. If something's objectively wrong, bias is irrelevant.
|
Oh, please. I've never heard anyone EVER speak in disgust of circumcision or not. Seriously, the only place I've seen true conflict over it is fucking 4CHAN where boys of both endowments argue who's better because they're insecure as fuck. Illegal under 18? Pfffff. Don't circumcise your child -- I'm cool with that. Doesn't mean I can't have mine if I don't see fit.
|
Ok I'm going to have to clarify a ton of things I see being called out on me here...
I wrote the op in such a biased manner because I feel so fucking strong about this. It would be very hard for me to concede the points of the other side of the argument. If I tried to write neutral I would still be called out for bias. Also, to every moron who's calling out my bias, I put a fucking disclaimer smack dab at the bottom of the post. I SAID I wasn't going to pretend to be unbiased ffs. Stop calling me out on it.
Also, I've seen a lot of posts who are insulting me. "i bet OP is uncut and his gf laughed and crushed his dreams and now hes defending his ego." or "OP is prolly cut and now he's trying to tell us how screwed we are."
Fuck you.
First off that's the definition of argumentum ad hominem; a logical fallacy. You seek to discredit me by insult.
Second off it's not true. I am uncut and the reason I posted this thread is to give babies the choice. It disturbs me that this practice happens, to INFANTS no less. So I seek to inform people about the detractors of circumcision. I didn't include the other side of the argument because almost everybody's heard it.
And finally, I'm requesting a close. I made a mistake by posting this here and all I've accomplished is driving this argument in circles and pissing everybody off. I see so much misinformed bullshit on here that it blows me away. People are saying that the foreskin has no purpose + Show Spoiler +It was give to us by evolution/god, and it protects the glans from abrasion. Are you fucking stupid? You're removing healthy, living tissue without immediate medical reason. The preventative crap is like cutting off someones fingers because they might get slammed in doors. Seriously? The reason you can't feel anything is that your glans, which is naturally covered by the inner foreskin (a mucosa membrane), is exposed to the elements and like it or not, you've developed a callus on it and now you can't feel the pleasure of sex before you reach orgasm. Saying that you last longer is bull because last is almost purely psychological. Plus, you've never had the comparison.
Even saying that it looks better is crap because I'd bet good money that if you grew up with it, you'd like it too. Plus, it's your kids penis, not yours.
All of these claims are bullcrap. Clearly I can't convince anyone here that that's what they are. So I'm going to cut my losses here and end this vicious cycle of flame.
|
On September 09 2011 11:39 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:38 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:36 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:31 BlueBird. wrote:On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you. But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them. As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me. I'm Catholic and Jewish, I don't celebrate either religions. I don't do Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, etc. None of it. Not because I reject the religion, I just don't have an interest. I do, however, respect and acknowledge that religion played a moral curve to me. It taught me basic moral values that helped me live and fundamentally cooperate with society and the world (along with other factors). I'm baptized and circumcised and I'm fine with both. Their intentions aren't to force you into a religion or label you as XYZ religion, they're just using religion as a tool to guide you to grow up properly and with understanding of the rights and wrongs in life. I do love Passover though. Yes, thank God your parents cut off your foreskin, otherwise you never would have understood to love thy neighbor as thyself. Point being, I don't have an issue with it.
That's wonderful. What if your son does have an issue with it?
|
On September 09 2011 11:56 Cedstick wrote:
Oh, please. I've never heard anyone EVER speak in disgust of circumcision or not. Seriously, the only place I've seen true conflict over it is fucking 4CHAN where boys of both endowments argue who's better because they're insecure as fuck. Illegal under 18? Pfffff. Don't circumcise your child -- I'm cool with that. Doesn't mean I can't have mine if I don't see fit.
I don't think that anyone in this thread has argued that circumcision as a whole should be illegalized. People are just arguing that parents should not be allowed to do it to their children without the children's informed consent.
|
In the end, tough luck. It's my child and I get to decide if he gets a circumcised penis or not.
Selfish? You bet?
Bullshit? Uh-huh.
Completely repulsive? Ask his future girlfriend(s)
Unfair? Ha, maybe.
Bad parenting? Yes, let's define the entirety of my potential in parenting based on a decision I took away from a barely conscious child.
I'm sure every one of you hate seeing your penis have a head. ):
I gave my rationale, even from the outer perspective its irrational, but I don't care, neither will the child (very likely) and nor will the world because no one will see it (in some rare occasion, they will).
|
On September 09 2011 11:57 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:39 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:38 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:36 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:31 BlueBird. wrote:On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you. But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them. As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me. I'm Catholic and Jewish, I don't celebrate either religions. I don't do Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter, etc. None of it. Not because I reject the religion, I just don't have an interest. I do, however, respect and acknowledge that religion played a moral curve to me. It taught me basic moral values that helped me live and fundamentally cooperate with society and the world (along with other factors). I'm baptized and circumcised and I'm fine with both. Their intentions aren't to force you into a religion or label you as XYZ religion, they're just using religion as a tool to guide you to grow up properly and with understanding of the rights and wrongs in life. I do love Passover though. Yes, thank God your parents cut off your foreskin, otherwise you never would have understood to love thy neighbor as thyself. Point being, I don't have an issue with it. That's wonderful. What if your son does have an issue with it?
What if he does? Then what?
|
On September 09 2011 11:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
In the end, tough luck. It's my child and I get to decide if he gets a circumcised penis or not.
Selfish? You bet?
Bullshit? Uh-huh.
Completely repulsive? Ask his future girlfriend(s)
Unfair? Ha, maybe.
Bad parenting? Yes, let's define the entirety of my potential in parenting based on a decision I took away from a barely conscious child.
I'm sure every one of you hate seeing your penis have a head. ):
I gave my rationale, even from the outer perspective its irrational, but I don't care, neither will the child (very likely) and nor will the world because no one will see it (in some rare occasion, they will).
You know those rednecks who give their baby's tattoos or piercings and everyone is disgusted by them?
You're unabashedly one of those now. Congratulations, here's your complimentary Insane Clown Posse shirt and "Half-dicked baby on board" car sticker.
|
On September 09 2011 11:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
In the end, tough luck. It's my child and I get to decide if he gets a circumcised penis or not.
Selfish? You bet?
Bullshit? Uh-huh.
Completely repulsive? Ask his future girlfriend(s)
Unfair? Ha, maybe.
Bad parenting? Yes, let's define the entirety of my potential in parenting based on a decision I took away from a barely conscious child.
I'm sure every one of you hate seeing your penis have a head. ):
I gave my rationale, even from the outer perspective its irrational, but I don't care, neither will the child (very likely) and nor will the world because no one will see it (in some rare occasion, they will).
All the respect I have ever had for you is now void. I cannot believe that you acknowledge and comprehend what you're doing to a baby and then saying "Fuck you I'm doing this whether you like it or not."
|
On September 09 2011 11:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
In the end, tough luck. It's my child and I get to decide if he gets a circumcised penis or not.
Selfish? You bet?
Bullshit? Uh-huh.
Completely repulsive? Ask his future girlfriend(s)
Unfair? Ha, maybe.
Bad parenting? Yes, let's define the entirety of my potential in parenting based on a decision I took away from a barely conscious child.
I'm sure every one of you hate seeing your penis have a head. ):
I gave my rationale, even from the outer perspective its irrational, but I don't care, neither will the child (very likely) and nor will the world because no one will see it (in some rare occasion, they will).
In the end, tough luck. It's my daughter and I get to decide if she gets her clit removed or not.
I really don't understand how you can say, "Yeah, I'm wrong, but I don't care."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
