EPTInfant Circumcision
This word evokes mixed feelings in people. On one hand we're supposedly reducing the risk of STDs, Penile cancer, and other various genital diseases for our precious little boys. On another hand, it's widely believed that by doing this to our little girls we are putting them through tremendous pain and agony.
What people don't realize is that whether it's a girl or a boy, it still hurts like fucking hell. In about 95% of the circumcision videos I've watched (even the ones with applied anasthetic) the baby almost always shrieks with agony. Some say that this is the baby crying because it's restrained. This is not true. I have been to visit my baby cousin, and as a test, I pushed back his legs and held them there as I saw in the videos. He only protested mildly. In almost every circumcision video, when the procedure actually begins and the foreskin is amputated, the shrieking escalates tenfold.
For those who do not know what circumcision is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision
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"Male circumcision is the surgical removal of some or all of the foreskin (prepuce) from the penis.[1] The word "circumcision" comes from Latin circum (meaning "around") and cædere (meaning "to cut"). Early depictions of circumcision are found in cave paintings and Ancient Egyptian tombs, though some pictures are open to interpretation.[2][3][4] Religious male circumcision is considered a commandment from God in Judaism.[5][6] In Islam, though not discussed in the Qur'an, male circumcision is widely practised and most often considered to be a sunnah.[7] It is also customary in some Christian churches in Africa, including some Oriental Orthodox Churches.[8]
The basics of circumcision: Did you know that...
- Medical infant male circumcision was initially introduced to curb masturbation? (source from The Intactivism Pages)
- Most men in the world and the great majority of men in Europe, Scandinavia, Central and South America and Asia are not circumcised. (source from The Intactivism Pages)
- Before a Foreskin can be removed from an infant penis, it must be seperated from the glans. The two are naturally fused together until puberty, and so a probe must be slipped between the two and peel the foreskin away. This is incredibly painful for the baby. It also accounts for a bloody, raw appearance of the penis throughout the circumcision.
- The foreskin is the most sexually sensitive part of the penis. (source from The Intactivism Pages)
- The claim that circumcision protects against HIV is based on 5,400 circumcisions protecting (perhaps) just 73 men. This is protecting a tiny amount of 0.014% of all circumcised men. (source from The Intactivism Pages)
- Even if the above claim is true, it would require circumcising around 1000 men to protect only one. (source from The Intactivism Pages)
- Circumcision provides no protection at all for gay men or woman. (source from The Intactivism Pages)
- There is heavy hemorrhaging and possibly fatal bloodloss during some circumcisions.
Why we are still performing circumcision today:
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The biggest reason is the psychological factor. Most men born in the mid 1900's are circumcised. Now that generation is about 40 and 50, which means they probably had kids in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. In today's society, with all this information, we know that circumcision has very negative effects on sexual pleasure. It also has a 50% chance of narrowing of the urethra, which can lead to many other complications. Such as keratinization of the glans. Most importantly, Sexual satisfaction is greatly reduced. This engenders feelings of inferiority in Circumcised men.
This inferiority is a strong feeling in circumcised men. They don't want to be reminded of what they lost, so they circumcise their sons and convince themselves that being circumcised is normal. If circumcised men could control these irrational feelings and not circumcise their children, accepting and understanding what they lost, there would be a lower circumcision rate. I believe that these people try and find 'evidence' or 'excuses' to circumcise. Hence the HIV prevention myth.
On that note, has anyone else noticed that what circumcision supposedly prevents changes between eras? 40 years ago it was supposed to prevent the cancer of the penis. Now it supposedly prevents HIV. This would only happen if neither of those were truly prevented, and pro-circumcisionists simply want to appeal to people's fears.
This inferiority is a strong feeling in circumcised men. They don't want to be reminded of what they lost, so they circumcise their sons and convince themselves that being circumcised is normal. If circumcised men could control these irrational feelings and not circumcise their children, accepting and understanding what they lost, there would be a lower circumcision rate. I believe that these people try and find 'evidence' or 'excuses' to circumcise. Hence the HIV prevention myth.
On that note, has anyone else noticed that what circumcision supposedly prevents changes between eras? 40 years ago it was supposed to prevent the cancer of the penis. Now it supposedly prevents HIV. This would only happen if neither of those were truly prevented, and pro-circumcisionists simply want to appeal to people's fears.
How to tell if you're circumcised:
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![[image loading]](http://solongfreedom.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/circumcision.jpg)
"So I'm circumcised, what do I do to alleviate this problem?"
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Well, I admit I've probably been really pissing you off, I've been telling you that your sex life can never be what it should have been, and you probably have inferred that Circumcision causes more problems than it has a tiny chance of solving. Some of these are remediable, however.
Believe it or not, your foreskin isn't gone forever. It can actually be restored. See this link for information.
If you prefer a site that provides very specialized information and instruction, this site may be better.
Other solutions include artificial foreskins that keep the glans in a moist environment, as it would be while under the mucosa membrane. Often times circumcised penises form calluses on them, as they are exposed to clothing and dry air. This desensitizes the glans and detracts from sexual sensitivity. Covering the glans allows it to heal and restores it's sensitivity. Most circumcised men who try these practices report increased sexual sensitivity and increased day to day comfort.
It is important to not, however, that it is impossible to regrow the lost nerve endings. Because of this, Circumcised penises, although restored, can never be as sensitive as untouched penises. So the argument that "You can just regrow it back anyway" is only partially true. Plus, regrowing foreskins takes years.
Believe it or not, your foreskin isn't gone forever. It can actually be restored. See this link for information.
If you prefer a site that provides very specialized information and instruction, this site may be better.
Other solutions include artificial foreskins that keep the glans in a moist environment, as it would be while under the mucosa membrane. Often times circumcised penises form calluses on them, as they are exposed to clothing and dry air. This desensitizes the glans and detracts from sexual sensitivity. Covering the glans allows it to heal and restores it's sensitivity. Most circumcised men who try these practices report increased sexual sensitivity and increased day to day comfort.
It is important to not, however, that it is impossible to regrow the lost nerve endings. Because of this, Circumcised penises, although restored, can never be as sensitive as untouched penises. So the argument that "You can just regrow it back anyway" is only partially true. Plus, regrowing foreskins takes years.
The hygiene factor:
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This is possibly the only pro-circumcision argument that has any credit to it. Circumcised penises are cleaner, but they don't attain a cleanliness that can't be attained by retracting the foreskin of a normal penis and rinsing it with warm water in the shower. In some ways, urinating while not retracting the foreskin can be hygienic. Urine is sterile, and in a way cleanses the inner foreskin.
Basically, the hygiene myth only applies when you don't take showers every day and can't/don't retract the foreskin and clean the area. In a country like this where you have all that stuff, the only inconvenience is taking 30 seconds each shower. What do you get in exchange? Day to day comfort and a dick that isn't callused and scarred. Both partners also have a lot more pleasure in sex.
Basically, the hygiene myth only applies when you don't take showers every day and can't/don't retract the foreskin and clean the area. In a country like this where you have all that stuff, the only inconvenience is taking 30 seconds each shower. What do you get in exchange? Day to day comfort and a dick that isn't callused and scarred. Both partners also have a lot more pleasure in sex.
"It's just a little snip! It's not a lot of skin!"
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Absolutely wrong. Circumcision removes 15 Square inches of tissue from the adult penis! That counts both the inner and outer foreskin, but it's still a huge number. That's roughly the size of a playing card, counting both sides.
It's not a little snip, either. The foreskin must be torn away from the glans, which involves shoving a probe in between the two. This is incredible painful and isn't even the full extent of the procedure, which leaves the glans raw, bloody, and exposed.
It's not a little snip, either. The foreskin must be torn away from the glans, which involves shoving a probe in between the two. This is incredible painful and isn't even the full extent of the procedure, which leaves the glans raw, bloody, and exposed.
Anticircumcision websites:
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http://www.nocirc.org/
http://www.circumstitions.com/
http://www.intactamerica.org/
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/
http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/
Jews against Circumcision is a good site for everyone to look at. It provides advice for Jews who are torn on circumcising, as it goes against their good conscience, but is required by their religion. It's also a good place to go for ANYONE against circumcision, and provides some good, hard statistics.
http://www.circumstitions.com/
http://www.intactamerica.org/
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/
http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/
Jews against Circumcision is a good site for everyone to look at. It provides advice for Jews who are torn on circumcising, as it goes against their good conscience, but is required by their religion. It's also a good place to go for ANYONE against circumcision, and provides some good, hard statistics.
Statistics, posters, and cartoons:
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![[image loading]](http://www.circumstitions.com/Images/sherman-bill7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://edthemanicstreetpreacher.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/circumcisioncartoon.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.circumstitions.com/Images/Complic/frisch-denmark.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.circumstitions.com/Images/sorrells-graphs-coloured.gif)
As you can see in the above image, circumcised men are almost always less sensitive than normal men. The exception being the circumcision scars.
Final notes:
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To the mods: + Show Spoiler +
Other stuff: + Show Spoiler +
Yes, I know there are previous threads on circumcision. None of them, however, address the issue in the op and provide detailed information. That is what I am trying to do.
Other stuff: + Show Spoiler +
I won't pretend to be neutral here. I am strongly opposed to circumcision and I believe that it is a horrible practice that should be stopped. I made this thread to inform you, the reader about it and to quash some of the myths that it prevents HIV, along with other bullcrap.
Also, on the Intactivism pages are videos and stills of the procedure itself. Look at them at your own risk, but they do portray just how gruesome it is and just how much pain the patient is in.
Also, on the Intactivism pages are videos and stills of the procedure itself. Look at them at your own risk, but they do portray just how gruesome it is and just how much pain the patient is in.
This topic is meant to inform and eradicate some of the myths about circumcision. I am not pretending that I am neutral in this.
On September 09 2011 11:56 Kinetik_Inferno wrote:
Ok I'm going to have to clarify a ton of things I see being called out on me here...
I wrote the op in such a biased manner because I feel so fucking strong about this. It would be very hard for me to concede the points of the other side of the argument. If I tried to write neutral I would still be called out for bias. Also, to every moron who's calling out my bias, I put a fucking disclaimer smack dab at the bottom of the post. I SAID I wasn't going to pretend to be unbiased ffs. Stop calling me out on it.
Also, I've seen a lot of posts who are insulting me. "i bet OP is uncut and his gf laughed and crushed his dreams and now hes defending his ego." or "OP is prolly cut and now he's trying to tell us how screwed we are."
Fuck you.
First off that's the definition of argumentum ad hominem; a logical fallacy. You seek to discredit me by insult.
Second off it's not true. I am uncut and the reason I posted this thread is to give babies the choice. It disturbs me that this practice happens, to INFANTS no less. So I seek to inform people about the detractors of circumcision. I didn't include the other side of the argument because almost everybody's heard it.
And finally, I'm requesting a close. I made a mistake by posting this here and all I've accomplished is driving this argument in circles and pissing everybody off. I see so much misinformed bullshit on here that it blows me away. People are saying that the foreskin has no purpose + Show Spoiler + that circumcision is purely cosmetic + Show Spoiler + some are even stupid enough to say "Well I'm circumcised and I'M okay!" + Show Spoiler +
Even saying that it looks better is crap because I'd bet good money that if you grew up with it, you'd like it too. Plus, it's your kids penis, not yours.
All of these claims are bullcrap. Clearly I can't convince anyone here that that's what they are. So I'm going to cut my losses here and end this vicious cycle of flame.
Ok I'm going to have to clarify a ton of things I see being called out on me here...
I wrote the op in such a biased manner because I feel so fucking strong about this. It would be very hard for me to concede the points of the other side of the argument. If I tried to write neutral I would still be called out for bias. Also, to every moron who's calling out my bias, I put a fucking disclaimer smack dab at the bottom of the post. I SAID I wasn't going to pretend to be unbiased ffs. Stop calling me out on it.
Also, I've seen a lot of posts who are insulting me. "i bet OP is uncut and his gf laughed and crushed his dreams and now hes defending his ego." or "OP is prolly cut and now he's trying to tell us how screwed we are."
Fuck you.
First off that's the definition of argumentum ad hominem; a logical fallacy. You seek to discredit me by insult.
Second off it's not true. I am uncut and the reason I posted this thread is to give babies the choice. It disturbs me that this practice happens, to INFANTS no less. So I seek to inform people about the detractors of circumcision. I didn't include the other side of the argument because almost everybody's heard it.
And finally, I'm requesting a close. I made a mistake by posting this here and all I've accomplished is driving this argument in circles and pissing everybody off. I see so much misinformed bullshit on here that it blows me away. People are saying that the foreskin has no purpose + Show Spoiler +
It was give to us by evolution/god, and it protects the glans from abrasion. Are you fucking stupid?
You're removing healthy, living tissue without immediate medical reason. The preventative crap is like cutting off someones fingers because they might get slammed in doors.
Seriously? The reason you can't feel anything is that your glans, which is naturally covered by the inner foreskin (a mucosa membrane), is exposed to the elements and like it or not, you've developed a callus on it and now you can't feel the pleasure of sex before you reach orgasm. Saying that you last longer is bull because last is almost purely psychological. Plus, you've never had the comparison.
Even saying that it looks better is crap because I'd bet good money that if you grew up with it, you'd like it too. Plus, it's your kids penis, not yours.
All of these claims are bullcrap. Clearly I can't convince anyone here that that's what they are. So I'm going to cut my losses here and end this vicious cycle of flame.
