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Jew here.
The circumcision is important in Jewish culture to show the covenant between God and Abraham, as well with all of the Jews. It's kind of a bfd for us.
If you are against it, that's cool. Doesn't really need to be a thread. I wasn't aware there was an elephant in the room, as I don't go around spouting of information about my genitals to the internet.
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ROFL at circumcision/sexual dysfunction chart. That graph looks so amateurish I think you probably just put a bunch of random numbers on excel.
What I know for fact: Circumcision reduces risk of STD transfer Circumcision de-sensitizes the skin of the penis (to touch, and hence also stimulation)
What is this talk about people tugging at the foreskin to regrow? Is there seriously a flab of skin sticking out that you can pull on??? YUCK.
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On September 09 2011 11:18 W2 wrote: ROFL at circumcision/sexual dysfunction chart. That graph looks so amateurish I think you probably just put a bunch of random numbers on excel.
What I know for fact: Circumcision reduces risk of STD transfer Circumcision de-sensitizes the skin of the penis (to touch, and hence also stimulation)
What is this talk about people tugging at the foreskin to regrow? Is there seriously a flab of skin sticking out that you can pull on??? YUCK. I kind of wonder if you did the same. It's almost intentional though, how you blast the guy for being amateur putting random things together and then the very next sentence go on to do the same things. It's almost as though you're being ironic or something. I dont know.
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On September 09 2011 09:28 GinDo wrote:
Women expect circumcised penises most of the time.
Only in dixieland. In the rest of the civilised world they're a rarity.
Frankly I don't even get the aesthetics arguement. For one it's common for the skin to fold down when your sporting a raging uncercumcised boner so they look practically the same immediately prior to the act of hole ramming anyway.
Secondly, it's a fucking penis. I don't care if your Brad Pitt and you put your johnson in a tuxuedo, it'll still end up looking like shit. I defy the world that anyone, be it a straight women, gay man or anyone else has ever uttered the line "thats a very handsome penis you have there".
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On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family.
![[image loading]](http://teamfinlayson.co.uk/funnystuff/tradition.jpg)
On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both.
Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both.
User was warned for this post
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On September 09 2011 11:16 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Diks wrote:On September 09 2011 11:01 StinkyBoots wrote: THe thing the OP seems to forget is that the baby does not remember the cirumcision, nor the pain. Birth itself is painful. Your first breath is painful, as fresh air rushes your lungs. It would be like breathing really cold air in the winter, it hurts. your first breath is much worst then that, yet we do not complain about breathing. A circumcised penis does feel less during intercourse, I am told by someone having a circumsicion very late in life, but from birth one would not know the diferrence. Anyways that is my tib bit of info. Good read though. EXACTLY ! This is why we should rape babies legally ! because you know they won't remember and the first breath my hurt more than that. EDIT : Arranged marriages are preferred amongst many females, though I can see why you can't believe it.
In addition, by the time he can make a conscious decision, it will even more painful should he decide it to do it.
Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family.
My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both.
Prove me that shit and I'll believe you on that. I won't answer to your second paragraph because it doesn't make sense at all in my head. This just in, some women are focused on their careers and education. Not everyone marries for love and not everyone does not trust the judgement of the parents. It is not unnatural for the parents to decide the husband for the women because the parents knows what's best for their child and which man would suit their financial security, etc. etc. I know, outrageous. Sociology/Anthropology. how did we get to arranged marriages? O.o
It's parallel to the idea that giving a child all the decisions in the world is utopian, but unrealistic and stupid in reality.
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On September 09 2011 11:17 heroofcanton wrote: Jew here.
The circumcision is important in Jewish culture to show the covenant between God and Abraham, as well with all of the Jews. It's kind of a bfd for us.
African tribesman here.
The female circumcision is important in my African tribe to show the covenant between God and the wife, as well as with all tribespeople. It's kind of a bfd for us.
Teamliquid, in my experience, is not the sort of place that takes kindly to "IT'S MY RELIGION, THEREFORE IT'S OKAY" comments.
On September 09 2011 11:17 heroofcanton wrote: If you are against it, that's cool. Doesn't really need to be a thread. I wasn't aware there was an elephant in the room, as I don't go around spouting of information about my genitals to the internet.
Nothing on Teamliquid "needs to be a thread." It's a forum. People post shit that they want to talk about.
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I feel like it should always be the person's choice, it's kind of crazy that people make the choices for the kids most of the time when it comes to this. I know a lot of religions do it, but that doesn't justify it. I prefer being circumcized, and I'm glad that I was when I was little and I didn't have to make the choice later just cause I could see myself now when it's about to happen scream like a child and run out the door... I probably prefer it cause that's the way I have been my whole life, but whatever. I still wouldn't do it to a child myself when I have no idea what that child wants in life yet.
Is this as big as an issue as the OP leads me to believe, not really.. And I have never once had this "inferior" process in my brain, as far as comparing to foreskin. Look I understand everyone and their brother, mother and sister thinks that men are all jealous about each others penises, and each penis needs to be this way and that way, but seriously? I'm going to have to call bull shit on this particular fact. If anything it's a rare case.
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On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. ![[image loading]](http://teamfinlayson.co.uk/funnystuff/tradition.jpg) Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both.
I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful.
You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision.
You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over.
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Uhhh I don't really care, I'm uncircumcized, but when I'm erect my foreskin pulls back and my penis looks like it's circumcized. The only problem I have is when I'm urinating and well piss is trapped there. If I have a son, I'm going to get him circumcized.
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On September 09 2011 11:25 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:17 heroofcanton wrote: Jew here.
The circumcision is important in Jewish culture to show the covenant between God and Abraham, as well with all of the Jews. It's kind of a bfd for us. African tribesman here. The female circumcision is important in my African tribe to show the covenant between God and the wife, as well as with all tribespeople. It's kind of a bfd for us. Teamliquid, in my experience, is not the sort of place that takes kindly to "IT'S MY RELIGION, THEREFORE IT'S OKAY" comments. Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:17 heroofcanton wrote: If you are against it, that's cool. Doesn't really need to be a thread. I wasn't aware there was an elephant in the room, as I don't go around spouting of information about my genitals to the internet. Nothing on Teamliquid "needs to be a thread." It's a forum. People post shit that they want to talk about.
TL respects the ideals of other religions as long as they are tasteful and long-founded (in this case, there is a symbolic representation of circumcision).
You really need to use your sociological imagination here.
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Maybe its because people in south america dont do it, but I could never do this to my child and I consider it child abuse (in the sense of provoking unbearable pain to a kid)
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I'm circumcised and I think you're getting into a massive huff over nothing. It doesn't affect me negatively in any way and I cannot remember any pain arising from it.
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On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid?
Yes (that aspect of it, at least).
On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote: That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful.
Sorry.
On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote: You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision.
You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over.
Not right when they pop out of the womb, no. But by the time it will matter (i.e. when they're having sex), they'll certainly be able to make such a decision, which is why you cannot rationally justify circumcising an infant without invoking "MY DADDY AND MY RELIGION TOLD ME TO."
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On September 09 2011 11:28 GoTuNk! wrote: Maybe its because people in south america dont do it, but I could never do this to my child and I consider it child abuse (in the sense of provoking unbearable pain to a kid)
Indeed. I was shocked to learn it is prevalent in the US.
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On September 09 2011 11:26 Pleiades wrote: If I have a son, I'm going to get him circumcized. Please don't I know its you and your partners choice and all. I wish my parents didn't get me done. There really can't be anything wrong with a natural penis. There is no point being circumcised unless it needs to be done medically.
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On September 09 2011 11:28 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? Yes (that aspect of it, at least). Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote: That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. Sorry. Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote: You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision.
You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. Not right when they pop out of the womb, no. But by the time it will matter (i.e. when they're having sex), they'll certainly be able to make such a decision, which is why you cannot rationally justify circumcising an infant without invoking "MY DADDY AND MY RELIGION TOLD ME TO."
1. How so? I'm genuinely interested in knowing because I disagree.
2. Have you ever seen a grown man get a circumcised penis after they've hit puberty and everything, including nerves and organs are fully matured.
Think about it.
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On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. ![[image loading]](http://teamfinlayson.co.uk/funnystuff/tradition.jpg) On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over.
Regardless of whether he thinks your heritage/religion is stupid or not, the point he is trying to make is that just because it is religion/heritage/tradition doesn't make it automatically correct, either medically or morally.
People aren't suggesting that children get to pick. I too agree that that would be irresponsible. They are suggesting that individuals, when they 'grow up,' should then allowed to choose whether to be circumcised or not. That makes perfect sense to me.
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On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. ![[image loading]](http://teamfinlayson.co.uk/funnystuff/tradition.jpg) On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over.
No one is implying the child make the decision. Most people are saying the child should be left unaltered, then be informed of the decision when they reach a responsible age(Whatever that might be, personally I think it varies from person to person but I'm sure lawmaking bullshit will find that 16 or so is probably it). Sure you might still be Jewish and respect your parents, and believe that's great for you.
But as far as I'm concerned I hate it when people call their children, a "insert religion here" child, and make decisions for them based on that. My step dad wanted my little sister and brother baptized at two years old, they don't even attend that church now at ten and thirteen, the thirteen your old is now an atheist.. ... I'm sure plenty of Jewish people have converted or decided that having their foreskin removed before they even had the concept of being Jewish was wrong for them.
As for me I was raised as a Presbytarian and called a Christian by my family, nowadays after having attended different churches, reading different bibles, book of mormon, etc.. I don't believe in god, and personally don't find most religions do anything for me.
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On September 09 2011 11:31 Karliath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 11:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 11:23 matjlav wrote:On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Lastly, circumcision is for the honor for my father's Jewish. Something I respect and is a part of all of us in this family. ![[image loading]](http://teamfinlayson.co.uk/funnystuff/tradition.jpg) On September 09 2011 11:03 Torte de Lini wrote: My parents didn't give me a choice to be circumcised. I don't have a problem with them and I take into the idea that they did it with good intentions. You guys are so bent on making sure an infant or future child will have all the decisions in their life, yet, whenever a child fucks up, we blame the parents.
Can't have both. Yes, there are some choices that we expect parents to make, and other choices that we expect their children to be allowed to make. Yes, we can have both. I'm sorry, are you saying that respecting my heritage and religion is stupid? That's very offensive, I don't like this tone and your explanation made in a meme-form. That's very disrespectful. You can have an infant make a decision about their genitalia about concepts and aspects in their life and understanding that play a heavy role in the decision. You can have both, but in this instance it's not possible. What's being implied here is an extreme of allowing the child to make a decision they can't consciously make a responsible decision over. Regardless of whether he thinks your heritage/religion is stupid or not, the point he is trying to make is that just because it is religion/heritage/tradition doesn't make it automatically correct, either medically or morally. People aren't suggesting that children get to pick. I too agree that that would be irresponsible. They are suggesting that individuals, when they 'grow up,' should then allowed to choose whether to be circumcised or not. That makes perfect sense to me.
How does a personal decision make something universally right or even culturally right? It's a personal decision within my family. It's neither right or wrong, but a tradition upheld because we acknowledge a respect that may not be in your family (and that's fine and normal for your family).
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