On September 09 2011 10:00 MichaelDonovan wrote: TERRIBLE thread. What is this even doing on Team Liquid? Who says to themself: "Hmm I want to spread my anti-circumcision propaganda. Which website should I do it on? OH I know! Teamliquid.net, a starcraft website. Perfect."
What makes you say he's against anti-circumcision?
Maybe he's just informing or debunking some old myths.
On September 09 2011 10:00 MichaelDonovan wrote: TERRIBLE thread. What is this even doing on Team Liquid? Who says to themself: "Hmm I want to spread my anti-circumcision propaganda. Which website should I do it on? OH I know! Teamliquid.net, a starcraft website. Perfect."
What makes you say he's against anti-circumcision?
Maybe he's just informing or debunking some old myths.
On September 09 2011 09:51 Saraf wrote: What I don't understand is this: what is the big deal? It's not like circumcised people are trying to mandate it or anything, it's the so-called intactivists who are trying to ban it for reasons which are flimsy at best just because they've decided to make it their personal crusade. This whole issue is absolutely ridiculous; the foreskin is about as worthwhile as the appendix.
Except that many of them are forcing it on individuals? It's not like they're asking for their infant's consent before cutting his genitals.
So don't have your kid's foreskin removed (also: parents have the authority *by law* to make medical decisions on behalf of their children; I seriously doubt the portion of the populace that resents their parents for it is significant at all). It is not your business what medical decisions other parents make for their children so long as they do not harm the child (and circumcision, while painful for about 10 minutes for a infant, does not). It's way less painful to have it done as an infant than to have it done as an adult, and it's mandated by both judaism and islam; to ban it is to effectively persecute followers of those religions. Are you willing to infringe on their freedom of religion for something so basically unimportant?
Well I honestly can't take your presentation seriously because of the bullshit you made up about an inferiority complex. If you want to present a fundamentally sound argument based on research and statistics then leave your subjective opinions which have no basis out of it. Also cite where you found the statistics rather than just throwing up a chart with absolutely no source. For all we know the source of those charts is extremely biased or their methodology is flawed. If it was a study then we want to read the study and ensure there aren't any other circumstances that might skew the data or even give a proper statistical representation.
I don't really care to defend or oppose circumcision. I am circumcised. I've never had any problems of discomfort. I am sexually satisfied. I have great function, sensitivity and stamina. I am confident about myself and my performance. I've never had a partner complain about discomfort due to it being circumcised. I'll never know what it's like to be uncircumcised so I don't really care, nor do I feel like I am missing something, or feel like I had something stolen from me without consent.
One thing I will say however, if you're having trouble with function and sensitivity and masturbate frequently this could be your problem before you go and blame it on circumcision. http://www.curedeathgrip.com/about.html (NSFW due to the fact there's a banner advertising fleshlights at the bottom of the "What is deathgrip syndrome" page which actually depicts a girl using one on a man. Ad-block did not prevent it.).
Needs more citations of actual research. For god's sake don't people know what google scholar is?
I mean, I actually agree with most of the statements made, and I'd certainly never be circumcised or have anyone in my power circumcised, any more than I'd have my name tatooed across their arse.
If someone grows up and wants the snip for whatever reason, power to them
If someone has a medical condition that circumcision is shown to alleviate (phimosis, as has been noted, there are others as well), then correctional surgery is justified so long as the subject is willing if they're of an age to be able to make reasoned decisions about their own safety (4-5 and up?), or by consent of their guardians if not.
These are the only circumstances in which I can see it being justified. I cannot even imagine how arguing contrary to this is possible. Even for the argument that doing it wholesale for the prevention of disease is retarded. We don't enforce the wearing of condoms, and that's a far less drastic (and more effective) measure than pre-emptive surgery. What next, justifying the involuntary surgical sterilisation of the male population as birth control? If a person makes the choice of their own volition, without the application of pressure or blackmail, then great.
If anyone believes circumcision is justified in any case other than the above two, would you care to elaborate and justify? Because I'd really love to hear a decent argument on the topic.
This image will differentiate the two. It's not real pictures, but it's still NSFW + Show Spoiler +
HAHAHAHA rofl sorry im so immature
on topic i got 4 close friends i see reguarrly and they are all circumcised and they all think they are so much better thenme becausae of it lol. i think they all idiots for caring
doctors worldwide believe it is much healthier to be circumcised. Activists worldwide believe there is no difference. Then what's the big deal if we just circumsize everyone? The issue definitely doesn't warrant such ridiculous posts as this one is...
The OP spreads a lot misinformation about circumcision and uses persuasion methods else often found on FOX news... - comparing male circumcision to female circumcision (which is found under 'Female genital mutilation' on wikipedia) is plain wrong since the later has no benefits whatsoever and only leads to life-long problems and sometimes to life-threatening conditions. - the depiction of the size of the area that's being cut off is misleading (counting both sides of the skin? Really!?) - 'This inferiority is a strong feeling in circumcised men. They don't want to be reminded of what they lost, so they circumcise their sons and convince themselves that being circumcised is normal.' No, just no. Honestly, this reduces the credibility of the whole OP extremely.
However, I completely agree with the main point of the OP. Circumcision in this day and age is simply wrong. It is not needed, since it barely adds any benefits. When saying that it is prevents phimosis and similar problems, one should also notice that it adds risks during and post operation. The hygiene issue is also neglectable, since it's possible to keep the same hygiene with just tiny effort for uncircumcised men. Additionally, circumcised penises are less sensitive... Ultimatelly, I ask myself why should we put infants through so much pain, which doesn't offer them anything beneficial later on?
Also:
On September 09 2011 10:13 LXR wrote: doctors worldwide believe it is much healthier to be circumcised. Activists worldwide believe there is no difference. Then what's the big deal if we just circumsize everyone? The issue definitely doesn't warrant such ridiculous posts as this one is...
Doctors worldwide believe it is much healthier to be circumcised if you live in the slums of some sub-saharan city. Else it doesn't matter much unless you religiously decline to shower ever.
On September 09 2011 09:51 Saraf wrote: What I don't understand is this: what is the big deal? It's not like circumcised people are trying to mandate it or anything, it's the so-called intactivists who are trying to ban it for reasons which are flimsy at best just because they've decided to make it their personal crusade. This whole issue is absolutely ridiculous; the foreskin is about as worthwhile as the appendix.
Except that many of them are forcing it on individuals? It's not like they're asking for their infant's consent before cutting his genitals.
So don't have your kid's foreskin removed (also: parents have the authority *by law* to make medical decisions on behalf of their children; I seriously doubt the portion of the populace that resents their parents for it is significant at all). It is not your business what medical decisions other parents make for their children so long as they do not harm the child (and circumcision, while painful for about 10 minutes for a infant, does not). It's way less painful to have it done as an infant than to have it done as an adult,
Infant circumcision is as valid a medical procedure as a preemptive appendectomy. And I obviously disagree with the law.
and it's mandated by both judaism and islam; to ban it is to effectively persecute followers of those religions. Are you willing to infringe on their freedom of religion for something so basically unimportant?
Followers of Huitzilopochtli sacrificed humans. If I became a worshiper of Huitzilopochtli would I be allowed to sacrifice people, or would you "persecute" me?
Insofar as freedom of religion is a part of the broader freedom of thought, I support it absolutely. Mutilating others without their consent, however, falls well outside those bounds.
My parents are devout chrisitians, so they had me circumcised right after birth. I'm actually glad they did, because my older brother had his during his high-school days, and the pain almost killed him. Just imagine having a boner after getting circumcised. Gives me shivers.
On September 09 2011 09:56 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm still going to have my child circumcised. I'm part Jewish and it just looks aesthetically better (in my opinion and my girlfriend's).
I just wish my father didn't take pictures of my circumcision. I didn't know what it was when I was a kid looking through these photos, but when I was told what it was, I took a deeper look.
God, I'm so traumatized by myself. No pictures of my younger brother, only of his first son...
...
ugh
How much time do you plan on spending looking at your sons penis? I bet it won't be as much time as him, so why not let him decide?
On September 09 2011 10:00 MichaelDonovan wrote: TERRIBLE thread. What is this even doing on Team Liquid? Who says to themself: "Hmm I want to spread my anti-circumcision propaganda. Which website should I do it on? OH I know! Teamliquid.net, a starcraft website. Perfect."
Hi. You must be new to the general forum.
The general forum is like an orbital public bathroom in that all people do here is shit on each other while pretending like it's some kind of incredible fun the uninitiated can never understand.
On September 09 2011 10:21 Telcontar wrote: My parents are devout chrisitians, so they had me circumcised right after birth.
huh? Which denomination? Did they also forbid you from eating shellfish and pork or wearing a garment made of two different fibers?
Hahahaha fortunately, no. They're methodists, but as with most christians, they take some things from the bible more seriously than others. I'm not 100% sure they did it purely for religious reasons though, since my older brother wasn't circumcised at birth. Perhaps they did it for the perceived health reasons. I should ask them about it next time I talk to them.
EPT
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