|
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 03 2011 19:35 FeyFey wrote:
From what I understand, the BFH change has no affect on zerglings or drones/probes, all it does is make it so SCVs take one more shot (since SCVs have more hp). Which means BF and non-BF is same against SCVs in shots (3 shots to kill).
No it adds an extra attack for drones and probes. Not zerglings. 24->19 per shot. Non-SCV harvesters have 40 HP.
|
On September 01 2011 22:24 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 22:15 pRo9aMeR wrote:
i really hope that immo/wprism harrass will be more viable now
and the mothership speed change OMG! i can't wait for the first big game where someone uses this to his advantage If the reason Motherships weren't being used in high-level games were their accelleration, Motherships would just be kept on circular patrol and microed like BW Mutas or Vultures to keep moving. I would absolutely love to see the Mothership buffed into a usable state. The idea of a single unit that is so powerful that its arrival is totally game altering is pretty epic, if it can be balanced. But making it get to its top speed somewhat faster is not going to do it. Me, I'd love to see the wormhole ability from Beta back. If I remember right, it let you teleport the Mothership anywhere you had an energy field? Combined with Mass Recall, a Warp Prism would have effectively unlimited capacity. Bwah hah hah.
I'm not high level and I realize you are referring, here, to "high-level game." But as someone who experiments with motherships vs Zerg on occasion in diamond, I think that acceleration IS a part of the problem. Neural parasite hard counters motherships. Given the threat of infestors, I have to micro my mothership behind my army and sometimes place it on hold positions. To avoid scurrying infestors, or to re-position to vortex, the acceleration buff will make a difference.
|
Also they arent really scalling down fungal it does more damage v armoured thats probably why they ramped down the normal damage.
Other than the warp prism/hellion and ramp vision change I really hope none of these make it through.
I'm confused as to where this sentiment comes from: "they arent really scalling down fungal it does more damage v armoured." I've seen this posted in numerous places.
Here are the facts:
Patch 1.3.0
ZERG
Infestor
Fungal Growth
Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.=46.8 vs armored
Patch 1.4.11
ZERG
Infestor
Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).
The nerf to fungal reduces both normal damage (36 to 30) and damage vs armored (46.8 is being reduced to 40). Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand you?
|
40>36
Though there never really was a time where it had a 4 second duration and did 36 damage to armoured.
|
im so happy that brofestors r getting patched, now i can finally have fun trying to mcro vs a zerg without the worry of zergs who spam f in their infestors / whatever army
User was warned for this post
|
Sweet, Looking forward to the new changes. I think it'll change up the game a bit ^^
|
I still can't understand why imbastors weren't used more when the stun duration was 8 seconds...
I mean this coupled with broodlords would have been terrific.
User was banned for this post.
|
On September 04 2011 08:47 TeWy wrote:
I still can't understand why imbastors weren't used more when the stun duration was 8 seconds...
I mean this coupled with broodlords would have been terrific.
Because the DPS was awful IIRC.
Anyway I get more excited for these changes everyday, can't wait to see it go live.
|
On September 04 2011 08:47 TeWy wrote:
I still can't understand why imbastors weren't used more when the stun duration was 8 seconds...
I mean this coupled with broodlords would have been terrific.
...clever. Think of that yourself?
|
To elaborate on fungal change - It will help a lot in TvZ.
6 damage reduced is huge, it means the difference between life and death for Marines. Also it means decreased DPS (DPS reduced by 1.5[it was 9 DPS, now 7.5 DPS. This is still 3.5 more DPS more than the previous 4 DPS of 8 second fungal]). Medivacs can now out heal Fungal again (actually they could evenly match heal Fungal before but now they'll be able to actually heal units HP up while they're still fungaled [instead of keeping them at the same HP while fungaled]).
|
Any toss on the PTR gain experience with the vision change yet? Poking up ramps with stalkers would be harder to do because marines have another second or two to shoot at your stalker before it is granted vision above ramp.
While the immortal change no doubt would help a *bit* vs 1-1-1 marine tank banshee pushes, not being able to poke ramps "effectively" is somewhat of a let down.
|
On September 04 2011 11:54 Goldfish wrote:
To elaborate on fungal change - It will help a lot in TvZ.
6 damage reduced is huge, it means the difference between life and death for Marines. Also it means decreased DPS (DPS reduced by 1.5[it was 9 DPS, now 7.5 DPS. This is still 3.5 more DPS more than the previous 4 DPS of 8 second fungal]). Medivacs can now out heal Fungal again (actually they could evenly match heal Fungal before but now they'll be able to actually heal units HP up while they're still fungaled [instead of keeping them at the same HP while fungaled]).
Medivacs could always heal through fungal. Even now with the highest dps Fungal the game has seen.
|
On September 04 2011 11:54 Goldfish wrote:
To elaborate on fungal change - It will help a lot in TvZ.
6 damage reduced is huge, it means the difference between life and death for Marines. Also it means decreased DPS (DPS reduced by 1.5[it was 9 DPS, now 7.5 DPS. This is still 3.5 more DPS more than the previous 4 DPS of 8 second fungal]). Medivacs can now out heal Fungal again (actually they could evenly match heal Fungal before but now they'll be able to actually heal units HP up while they're still fungaled [instead of keeping them at the same HP while fungaled]).
People keep saying things like this over and over, and they are wrong.
It actually doesn't mean anything for marines. Marines will still die in 2 FG. Medivacs also always out-healed FG. Numerous FG over and over on a marine with medivac didn't kill it before patch, and won't after this. Given the DOT nature of FG, a medivac will still only heal on a single marine, even if it did 4 damage, the medivac would only focus on a single marine.
All the FG change has done is made it so ghosts and vikings take one more FG to kill. Just as before, if you aren't prepared with vikings and ghosts, you will get fucking rolled. People will still QQ about infestors, just like before.
What I don't understand about the change, is that it does nothing to change what people QQd about (marines, gateway, HT, roaches), and only hurts the reason infestors were buffed in the first place (to deal with VR/Colossi, which take +1/+2 more shots now). Infestors are perfectly balanced as it is, and a lot of people agree with that, and the ones that don't agree with that, didn't think infestors were OP because FG killed their colossi or VR too fast, or that their superbly prepared ghost/viking composition died out. They QQd because of their marines or mass stalkers.
|
On September 04 2011 08:52 KnightGrinder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 08:47 TeWy wrote:
I still can't understand why imbastors weren't used more when the stun duration was 8 seconds...
I mean this coupled with broodlords would have been terrific. Because the DPS was awful IIRC. Anyway I get more excited for these changes everyday, can't wait to see it go live.
he means because it could hold them in place while broodlords ripped them apart. would have some trouble with vikings and air in general though.
|
On September 04 2011 12:01 Hikari wrote:
Any toss on the PTR gain experience with the vision change yet? Poking up ramps with stalkers would be harder to do because marines have another second or two to shoot at your stalker before it is granted vision above ramp.
While the immortal change no doubt would help a *bit* vs 1-1-1 marine tank banshee pushes, not being able to poke ramps "effectively" is somewhat of a let down.
Yeah, good question. Has nobody tried the immortal? Looks like the only people playing the PTR are Zergs, b/c all I see is a bunch of qq about infestors.
|
^ What Zerg qq? Where has any Zerg qq'd in this thread? All the Zergs that have spoken have said they love this patch, because everything has been a buff to them, except the infestor 'nerf'...
Which, Zergs realize, actually does nothing to change them. At all. All you have is a bunch of trolls saying "rofl brofestors and imbastors are nerfed like they needed to be, awesome!" without realizing that everything still dies in the same number of fungals.
I mean I'm perfectly happy with a patch change that has no affect. It's amazing how many people on ladder say "rofl your infestor is getting nerfed" without realizing that the infestor still kills everything in the same number of hits anyways.
|
On September 04 2011 13:28 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 12:01 Hikari wrote:
Any toss on the PTR gain experience with the vision change yet? Poking up ramps with stalkers would be harder to do because marines have another second or two to shoot at your stalker before it is granted vision above ramp.
While the immortal change no doubt would help a *bit* vs 1-1-1 marine tank banshee pushes, not being able to poke ramps "effectively" is somewhat of a let down. Yeah, good question. Has nobody tried the immortal? Looks like the only people playing the PTR are Zergs, b/c all I see is a bunch of qq about infestors.
ya....actually I used to love the immortal drops of beta and this change (warp prism change too) makes them much more viable
mass immortal zealot is really awesome now....
|
On September 04 2011 12:14 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 11:54 Goldfish wrote:
To elaborate on fungal change - It will help a lot in TvZ.
6 damage reduced is huge, it means the difference between life and death for Marines. Also it means decreased DPS (DPS reduced by 1.5[it was 9 DPS, now 7.5 DPS. This is still 3.5 more DPS more than the previous 4 DPS of 8 second fungal]). Medivacs can now out heal Fungal again (actually they could evenly match heal Fungal before but now they'll be able to actually heal units HP up while they're still fungaled [instead of keeping them at the same HP while fungaled]). People keep saying things like this over and over, and they are wrong. It actually doesn't mean anything for marines. Marines will still die in 2 FG. Medivacs also always out-healed FG. Numerous FG over and over on a marine with medivac didn't kill it before patch, and won't after this. Given the DOT nature of FG, a medivac will still only heal on a single marine, even if it did 4 damage, the medivac would only focus on a single marine. All the FG change has done is made it so ghosts and vikings take one more FG to kill. Just as before, if you aren't prepared with vikings and ghosts, you will get fucking rolled. People will still QQ about infestors, just like before. What I don't understand about the change, is that it does nothing to change what people QQd about (marines, gateway, HT, roaches), and only hurts the reason infestors were buffed in the first place (to deal with VR/Colossi, which take +1/+2 more shots now). Infestors are perfectly balanced as it is, and a lot of people agree with that, and the ones that don't agree with that, didn't think infestors were OP because FG killed their colossi or VR too fast, or that their superbly prepared ghost/viking composition died out. They QQd because of their marines or mass stalkers.
Really? They are perfectly balanced? That explains why Blizzard is nerfing them. Genius. Also, where are all these people that agree infestors are balanced? Zergs in denial? Yea, that is about all the people that will agree with you on that one. I have heard from top zergs that they currently think infestors are too strong.
|
On September 04 2011 04:21 Shade_CsT wrote:
Too bad the OP didn't update the first post. I believe there was some nice screenshots of the patch (new score screen, etc) in the thread. Can someone re-post them ?
The score screen has been slightly redesigned in a graphics only; it does not convey any new information. I have long been hoping to Blizz would add a bit more info for stats hogs like myself. Even Warcraft 3 had more info - actual number of resources mined and not just an average, plus stuff like Tech %.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pA7kd.jpg)
|
On September 04 2011 03:06 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Lets put up a fight of lings/roaches/corruptors/infestors vs gateway units/colossus:
You FG the protoss army and 10 units will be affected - If you nerf FG by 5, the damage being dealt will be reduced by 5 x 10, thats 50 .. and then multiplay 50 x the number you cast FG in this battle... that is a HUGE difference of total damage.
And this difference is the damage that the other zerg units (lings/roaches etc.) will have to deal additionally in comparison to pre-patch No... it doesn't really work that way. 5 FG will have well killed most P and T units. As I said in my post, everything dies in the same number of hits except VR and Colossi, which were why infestors were buffed in the first place.
Have you really understood what i said?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
