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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
On August 26 2011 17:32 askTeivospy wrote: make workers armoured SEIGE TANK WORKER HARASS IMMORTAL WORKER HARASS ULTRALISK WORKER HARASS sound so much better imo Sounds good until you add in VOID RAY WORKER HARASS MARAUDER WORKER HARASS FUNGAL ONE-SHOT PROBES HARASS Those are not nearly as attractive... | ||
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Playerone111
39 Posts
On August 26 2011 09:44 Amui wrote: The ramp change is such that almost exactly the top half of the ramp is hidden from view. Vision mechanics for ramps as far as I can tell haven't changed. For PvP purposes you always want to FF the bottom of the ramp because now they cannot warp over the FF. Makes quite a bit worse now though because there is no way to brute force the sentries away from the ramp now if you are paying attention. There are 3 forcefield placements that block enemies from going up a ramp. 2 of them now completely deny warpins and vision so 4gate should officially be dead against any build that incorporates sentries and can stop pylons from going up inside the main base. Doesn't fix tal'darim, but every other map is pretty good. EDIT: added pics. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cfbbv.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uqahl.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HviUX.jpg) proper force fields + 2 gateway wall will finally prevent people from 4 gating! Btw this change is also kind of big for blink stalkers, because many times we made a "fail" field and 1 stalker could blink over the force field and give vision of highground and well, you were screwed :p | ||
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On August 26 2011 16:50 Elefanto wrote: It is acceptably balanced at low levels. If you lose against something, you're terrible. At low levels basic strategy / build changes help you overcome any imbalance, because everyone is terrible and their macro is shit. You are right. But there are more than two types of players. All high diamond/master players are between "low level" and "pro level". And i can see some subtle balance problems which neither exist on the highest nor on the lowest level of play. For example, terran units do reward good micromanagement the most. A 300 apm terran can make a lot of shit happen, while a 300 apm protoss has a hard time stopping the MMM madness. Most protoss even agree on this. Probably only because they want to jump on the "terran op" waggon, but its actually true. But if you decrease the level of play to something around mid master, the protoss deathball suddenly becomes much more dangerous. Sure, the terran will still kite and drop etc, but there are worlds between code S terran unit control and mid master terran unit control. On the other hand, moving around with one control group of protoss units and leaving some stalkers in the back of the base can be done pretty easily. Please dont get me wrong. Pro protoss unit control is also not easy to perform and playing protoss is everything but easy. But the reason that makes terran the most rewarding race for perfect unit control is the same reason that makes protoss the most rewarding race if you are a good (master) player, but dont have pro like apm. Should blizzard balance sc2 for the pros: yes Does this make sc2 balanced for all levels of play: no | ||
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ThePowerHour
United States834 Posts
1v1 TestMap1 is Shattered Temple, possibly with some very slight modifications to the center area. It's hard to tell. 1v1 TestMap2 is Typhon Peaks with changes to the rocks. Namely, there are rocks blocking the 12:00 and 6:00 expansions, and there is now only one set of rocks between the naturals on the left and right sides of the map. 1v1 TestMap3 is Backwater Gulch with possible small changes to the middle. Hard to tell, like #1. 1v1 TestMap4 is Slag Pits. It looks like tanks can still hit the mains from the low ground. 1v1 TestMap5 is an updated version of the 2v2 map New Antioch, which I'll post here since people might not be familiar with it: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yp6qM.jpg) I'm not sure whether Blizzard is planning on using these maps in future patches, but they're labeled as 1v1 test maps. Personally I think Slag Pits in any form shouldn't be there at all, even though the tileset is pretty cool, and the change to Typhon Peaks might be cool, but also might lead to some really gimmicky early timings breaking through the rocks. Thoughts? | ||
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SxYSpAz
United States1451 Posts
anyone know how long ptr usually goes on for? | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
On August 26 2011 13:11 FryktSkyene wrote: What. Zerg players complain the most of anyone. Go ahead and try playing zerg, u'll see why thats common. I just dont think its fair what they did to infestors this time, ridiculous. + Show Spoiler + Not fair what they've done to zergs so far  | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
apparently it will be available on EU "soon"....could be today, could be in several months.... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257041¤tpage=5 http://eu.battle.net/sc2/ru/blog/2852795?page=2#page-comments | ||
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finkelboy
Italy372 Posts
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
Spellcasting effects need a way to be countered (like storm is countered by spreading out and moving out of it). Standing there with 20 infestors and pressing F over and over on a group of units is the dumbest crap in a skill-based game. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
It's not that it would be overpowered in itself. It's the completely helpless position it leaves the opponent in, that is problematic. | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On August 26 2011 17:29 mrKamiya wrote: No, I mean they still do x amount of dmg to light with bf (ns how much), but do a diff amount to the worker type, and the workers wont be light. Generally, I feel that if the only way to solve a problem is to effectively give a unit two damage bonuses (one to light, one to workers), then you've screwed up something with that unit. And yes, this includes things like the Void Ray's +20% vs. Massive. These kinds of specialized rules should only be used as last-resort kinds of balancing. | ||
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itstheTB
61 Posts
The immortal buff was needed, 5 range on immortals just made them too annoying to micro with a bunch of stalkers, now that they have 6, me myself I will use them much more as I already am mixing in 3-4 immortals in my army vs T, P and Z. The ultralisk buff was also very needed. I think the absolutely biggest mistake all pro Zerg players make is that they underestimate the pontential power of ultralisks. I mean, if you never give a unit a chance, it will never be good, because you have to work hard on strategies using certain units in order for them to be efficient, I think if all Zerg players gave the Ultralisk a chance, I think Zerg could be the most powerful metagame race sort of on-pair with Protoss. A large ultralisk army + infestors cannot really be beaten by a Terran, except for if the Terran goes air or has more units. A large ultralisk army + infestors can barely be beaten by a Protoss if the Protoss uses Archons to tank and immortal/stalkers behind to do damage. I've seen NesTea use Ultralisks, and it actually worked very well for him VS HuK. I saw dignitas.Killer dominate oGsMC one game in IEM were he used ultralisks and MC was like "huh, ultras? oO". I think the nerf to fungal growth was not necessary, I think they were fine as they are. Zerg have 1 spellcaster: Infestor. If you nerf them, Zerg utility will be heavily nerfed. Protoss have HT, (mothership), sentry. Terran have Raven, ghost. I'm Protoss gold-league non professional player. | ||
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Noli
United Kingdom179 Posts
Worried about new seeker missile though that's a pretty big speed upgrade. Love the Overseer upgrade hopefully we'll see more contamination now and scouting will be more efficient. | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On August 26 2011 17:50 ThePowerHour wrote: A quick update on the maps labeled at test maps under the custom section on the NA PTR: 1v1 TestMap1 is Shattered Temple, possibly with some very slight modifications to the center area. It's hard to tell. 1v1 TestMap2 is Typhon Peaks with changes to the rocks. Namely, there are rocks blocking the 12:00 and 6:00 expansions, and there is now only one set of rocks between the naturals on the left and right sides of the map. 1v1 TestMap3 is Backwater Gulch with possible small changes to the middle. Hard to tell, like #1. 1v1 TestMap4 is Slag Pits. It looks like tanks can still hit the mains from the low ground. 1v1 TestMap5 is an updated version of the 2v2 map New Antioch, which I'll post here since people might not be familiar with it: I'm not sure whether Blizzard is planning on using these maps in future patches, but they're labeled as 1v1 test maps. Personally I think Slag Pits in any form shouldn't be there at all, even though the tileset is pretty cool, and the change to Typhon Peaks might be cool, but also might lead to some really gimmicky early timings breaking through the rocks. Thoughts? Haven't seen the maps yet, but they don't sound promising. From what you describe, the Typhon Peaks changes would make the map much worse, and Slag Pits would require huge changes to be viable. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
- The speed buff to Seeker Missile is nice, but you still need to run in pretty close to start it and at 125 energy it is too expensive to be useful anyways. Either the triggering range needs to increase (flying through lots of friendly units first reduces the chase duration and gives more reaction time, so it wouldnt be totally unfair IMO) or the energy needs to be reduced. Personally I have a feeling that the Hellion nerf will make it ever harder for Terrans to win against Zerg before the Zerg are exploding in their economy and reach Brood Lord / Ultralisk tech. Terrans might need a buff for T3, but then the next expansion is close around the corner, so we dont know what will happen then. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 26 2011 17:32 askTeivospy wrote: make workers armoured SEIGE TANK WORKER HARASS IMMORTAL WORKER HARASS ULTRALISK WORKER HARASS sound so much better imo Plus, stimed Marauders would raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaape workers. :-/ | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 26 2011 18:46 Rabiator wrote: - Mothership SHOULD provide power just like the Warp Prism in phase prism mode. - The speed buff to Seeker Missile is nice, but you still need to run in pretty close to start it and at 125 energy it is too expensive to be useful anyways. Either the triggering range needs to increase (flying through lots of friendly units first reduces the chase duration and gives more reaction time, so it wouldnt be totally unfair IMO) or the energy needs to be reduced. Personally I have a feeling that the Hellion nerf will make it ever harder for Terrans to win against Zerg before the Zerg are exploding in their economy and reach Brood Lord / Ultralisk tech. Terrans might need a buff for T3, but then the next expansion is close around the corner, so we dont know what will happen then. terrans late game is strong as it is...turtle terran with mech/ghosts is hard to break. Terrans late game is fine just a lot terrans don't know how to do it properly (yet). Also mech is fine as far as I saw a post zealots/zergligns still die in the same amount of shots from blue flamed hellions I wish people knew that! :D | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49497 Posts
On August 26 2011 18:42 Jumbled wrote: Haven't seen the maps yet, but they don't sound promising. From what you describe, the Typhon Peaks changes would make the map much worse, and Slag Pits would require huge changes to be viable. its just a PTR map it won't come back on the main ladder ever again,same goes for new antioch. | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
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