• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:29
CEST 16:29
KST 23:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 605 users

Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 180

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 178 179 180 181 182 453 Next
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
CuHz
Profile Joined January 2011
United States354 Posts
August 26 2011 07:07 GMT
#3581
i went from 180average APM to around 120-130 avg apm.

o_O
NA GM protoss twitch.tv/cuhzx
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
August 26 2011 07:12 GMT
#3582
On August 26 2011 12:34 VenerableSpace wrote:

lower divisions shoudlnt matter when balancing a game for the top level.


When your "top" level is based on players rising up from said lower divisions, yes, it does.

There's a fine line between what's going on. You shouldn't balance a game around the lower divisions. But you shouldn't IGNORE them and focus entirely on 1-3% of your player base. That's about as stupid of a business model as it gets.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
DoUDo
Profile Joined August 2011
5 Posts
August 26 2011 07:12 GMT
#3583
-o-
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
August 26 2011 07:12 GMT
#3584
Looks like it cuts most player's apm down about 30%. Not the biggest issue in the whole world, but somewhat annoying. Also idk what to do to spam my apm up in the beginning. I get like 40 now T.T
Porouscloud - NA LoL
RunnerMeep
Profile Joined May 2011
United States79 Posts
August 26 2011 07:14 GMT
#3585
Well, you can still spam in the beginning to warm up, nothing's stopping you from that, you just won't get credit for it which really doesn't matter.
SJSU!
champignones
Profile Joined September 2008
Panama160 Posts
August 26 2011 07:14 GMT
#3586
yes the thing is that 1 1 1 build looks imba even in pro level, but i wont argue about it i am just hoping to see how this patch change the Matchups.
you shouldnt worry if everybody ignore you, you should be worry when they dont anymore.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
August 26 2011 07:14 GMT
#3587
On August 26 2011 16:12 Amui wrote: Also idk what to do to spam my apm up in the beginning. I get like 40 now T.T



Why do people ask this? Obviously the APM change is meant to PREVENT spamming to increase APM.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
August 26 2011 07:15 GMT
#3588
Infestor's stopping units still needs to stop.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
Fe4rless
Profile Joined October 2010
United States23 Posts
August 26 2011 07:18 GMT
#3589
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:

Warp Prism
Shields increased from 40 to 100.



Special Tactics just got buffed...can NOT wait!
Scratch the surface...
bazinga64
Profile Joined August 2011
1 Post
August 26 2011 07:23 GMT
#3590
The barracks nerf was probably implemented to prevent the early 1 marauder- 1/2 marine harassment that terran can do to protoss. This usually ALWAYS works, up to like diamond, due to the fact that protoss players don't always opt to get a sentry first.
Shiluk
Profile Joined April 2011
United States11 Posts
August 26 2011 07:27 GMT
#3591
On August 26 2011 16:07 RavenLoud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 15:49 Shiluk wrote:

Mothership is overpowered late late game as is this speed buff wont help

Wut? Everything from your post seemed reasonable until this.

You know they fixed the archon toilet a long time ago...and imo it didn't need fixing

latelatelate game mothership die in seconds from mass cor/vikings most of the time. They'd be lucky if they can throw down a random vortex.


the archon toilet isn't fixed. I've seen it work post patch. Late game Protoss is so good that you need all you're supply (as zerg at least) to counter what ever he does so its hard to fit in corrupters. Not only does it make it very hard to counter what the toss is making if his army is cloaked 24/7 but almost impossible to actually fight. I think that any toss with decent micro should be able to protect his mother ship from corrupters with vortex and kill obs with blink stalkers or void rays.(also np should never happen to mother ships)

I guess what it boils down to is that protosses ideal army should never die to anything IMO and this just makes it more so. I know it should never get to that point in a game but every once in a while it does for this humble platinum player at least
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 07:33:38
August 26 2011 07:31 GMT
#3592
awesome changes.

but imo hunterseeker is still not good enough to make the raven a staple 'science vessel' unit. it needed cost reduction, not speed increase... i still can't imagine buying a raven with the intention of using HSM, then research the spell, then save up 125 energy for it...

also - thor cannon is untouched? why? has anyone even bothered researching that at ANY level of skill since 1.3?
Shade_FR
Profile Joined June 2010
France378 Posts
August 26 2011 07:36 GMT
#3593
is PTR live in North America ?
EU Zerg player - Streaming @ http://twitch.tv/shade_cst
PredY
Profile Joined September 2009
Czech Republic1731 Posts
August 26 2011 07:37 GMT
#3594
sorry if it has been mentioned about the APM

but constantly going through production buildings like 4-5-6 (rax fact port) to check for units being built is now not gonna be counted in APM?
http://www.twitch.tv/czelpredy
Kogan
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany84 Posts
August 26 2011 07:38 GMT
#3595
great patch !!! hope it comes exactly like that, really good changes, all of them
MrDudeMan
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada973 Posts
August 26 2011 07:38 GMT
#3596
On August 26 2011 16:12 Honeybadger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 12:34 VenerableSpace wrote:

lower divisions shoudlnt matter when balancing a game for the top level.


When your "top" level is based on players rising up from said lower divisions, yes, it does.

There's a fine line between what's going on. You shouldn't balance a game around the lower divisions. But you shouldn't IGNORE them and focus entirely on 1-3% of your player base. That's about as stupid of a business model as it gets.


No, it really isn't when it comes to balance. The pros are playing the game much better then anyone else, thus if you want to balance a game but still have it involve skill, you should base it on the pros. If you base it on the lower tiers, you end up lowering the skill ceiling because the lower tiers cannot do what the pros do, and thus the game turns into a "casual game". Besides most people who are aware of the pro scene would agree that the pros say on balance is above theirs, and most people not aware of the pro scene don't really care about balance to begin with.
Serelitz
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands2895 Posts
August 26 2011 07:41 GMT
#3597
On August 26 2011 16:12 Honeybadger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 12:34 VenerableSpace wrote:

lower divisions shoudlnt matter when balancing a game for the top level.


When your "top" level is based on players rising up from said lower divisions, yes, it does.

There's a fine line between what's going on. You shouldn't balance a game around the lower divisions. But you shouldn't IGNORE them and focus entirely on 1-3% of your player base. That's about as stupid of a business model as it gets.


It's also necessary - best they can hope for is that balance 'trickles down'. Most balance whine is based off of pro players anyway.
SoulWager
Profile Joined August 2010
United States464 Posts
August 26 2011 07:44 GMT
#3598
I hate this type of balance, the way you fix high damage units like the hellion is NOT by turning them into low damage units, you should fix them by making them riskier to use, for example, by increasing build time, increasing gas cost, and/or decreasing HP.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 26 2011 07:46 GMT
#3599
On August 26 2011 16:44 SoulWager wrote:
I hate this type of balance, the way you fix high damage units like the hellion is NOT by turning them into low damage units, you should fix them by making them riskier to use, for example, by increasing build time, increasing gas cost, and/or decreasing HP.

They aren't low damage units, they still kill workers faster than anything else in the game.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11507 Posts
August 26 2011 07:47 GMT
#3600
On August 26 2011 16:38 MrDudeMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 16:12 Honeybadger wrote:
On August 26 2011 12:34 VenerableSpace wrote:

lower divisions shoudlnt matter when balancing a game for the top level.


When your "top" level is based on players rising up from said lower divisions, yes, it does.

There's a fine line between what's going on. You shouldn't balance a game around the lower divisions. But you shouldn't IGNORE them and focus entirely on 1-3% of your player base. That's about as stupid of a business model as it gets.


No, it really isn't when it comes to balance. The pros are playing the game much better then anyone else, thus if you want to balance a game but still have it involve skill, you should base it on the pros. If you base it on the lower tiers, you end up lowering the skill ceiling because the lower tiers cannot do what the pros do, and thus the game turns into a "casual game". Besides most people who are aware of the pro scene would agree that the pros say on balance is above theirs, and most people not aware of the pro scene don't really care about balance to begin with.


You still should not ignore everyone else. Sure, Pro-level play should be the focus of balancing, but the game should also not be blatantly imbalanced at lower levels. Note, i am not saying it is. I just say that it should also be taken into consideration a bit. It should also be able to make a complex game which is balanced good at pro level, and still acceptably balanced at lower levels.
Prev 1 178 179 180 181 182 453 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
RotterdaM1963
ComeBackTV 1725
IndyStarCraft 598
WardiTV384
CranKy Ducklings179
Rex152
3DClanTV 94
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1963
IndyStarCraft 598
Rex 152
BRAT_OK 65
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 48690
Horang2 5597
EffOrt 1401
Barracks 1380
Larva 1175
Stork 741
BeSt 632
firebathero 521
Soulkey 276
Hyun 211
[ Show more ]
Last 138
Rush 129
Dewaltoss 98
sorry 68
Shinee 67
Sharp 63
Sea.KH 58
Movie 55
sSak 52
Free 45
sas.Sziky 35
Shine 32
zelot 20
yabsab 19
Terrorterran 7
Dota 2
Gorgc4740
qojqva3546
XcaliburYe418
420jenkins228
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1611
sgares350
oskar174
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor509
Other Games
B2W.Neo1764
Beastyqt1353
Hui .288
DeMusliM210
Fuzer 180
QueenE70
KnowMe48
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV29
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 57
• poizon28 15
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3644
• WagamamaTV863
League of Legends
• Nemesis3006
• Jankos1264
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 31m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
20h 31m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.