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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 19:07 ReboundEU wrote:
This patch is the bigest and most well made i have seen for SC2. There's abs no downside to any of the notes. Really can't wait for it to go live.
I would think the barracks build time change has a lot of downsides, like basically making every terran relearn every opening because the timings are completely off.
Horrible change if it's designed to fix nonsensical cheese. Don't break every build just to fix ladder cheese.
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I think I'm in love, so many great changes on paper. Will see what they do to the actual game but that is for when the patch is tried and tested on ptr. Great changes none the less.
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I'm looking forward to seeing how TvT evolves. Whenever I play terran i'm always doing bio TvT, not really into mech, so we'll hopefully have some fun experimentation in TvT
Not to mention Immortal drops! Omg! Sickness gonna be happy ;D
edit: I'm a very sad panda, because blink was basically my whole PvP TT;;
Guess i'll have to learn some robo builds.
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On August 25 2011 19:40 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:07 ReboundEU wrote:
This patch is the bigest and most well made i have seen for SC2. There's abs no downside to any of the notes. Really can't wait for it to go live. I would think the barracks build time change has a lot of downsides, like basically making every terran relearn every opening because the timings are completely off. Horrible change if it's designed to fix nonsensical cheese. Don't break every build just to fix ladder cheese.
What builds does 5 seconds change? 12 rax 13 gas is still 12 rax 13 gas. The only thing that will change that I can see is 11 gas 13 rax... The factory is 5 seconds later, so like 3 real seconds later.
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On August 25 2011 19:39 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:33 rpgalon wrote:
the Immortal +1 range and the blink 30+ seconds research is going to fuck PvP, I don't see both going through the PTR.
I think PvP is going to be more about robo after these changes. That's just my guess though.
Or stargate which owns robo :p With all the changes being anti 4 gate and anti blink, it'll definitely be less stalker oriented.
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On August 25 2011 19:36 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:23 darkness wrote:
Btw, why blink got nerfed? I don't think it's imbalanced.
Entirely for PvZ, I think. Blink rushes are really hard to scout from a standard gateway build, and if you don't directly counter them with mass speedlings, you're basically ****ed, if the toss has any blink micro skill at all. A lot of Zergs hate blink stalkers more than anything. Delaying the research gives them that much more time to spawn a batch of lings, it helps. It's not a big deal, since chronoboost applies. just my opinion on it.
it is not a big deal in PvZ, in PvP alongside with immoral buff and -1 range from down ramps, it is going to make EVERY protoss player go 2gate robo or 3 gate robo.
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On August 25 2011 19:42 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:40 yeint wrote:On August 25 2011 19:07 ReboundEU wrote:
This patch is the bigest and most well made i have seen for SC2. There's abs no downside to any of the notes. Really can't wait for it to go live. I would think the barracks build time change has a lot of downsides, like basically making every terran relearn every opening because the timings are completely off. Horrible change if it's designed to fix nonsensical cheese. Don't break every build just to fix ladder cheese. What builds does 5 seconds change? 12 rax 13 gas is still 12 rax 13 gas. The only thing that will change that I can see is 11 gas 13 rax... The factory is 5 seconds later, so like 3 real seconds later.
Every single build, because you don't get a 15 orbital anymore.
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I have not followed sc2 for a few weeks. From reading these patch notes i'll have to assume mech was imba in TvP. I hope now it's fixed.
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On August 25 2011 19:42 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:40 yeint wrote:On August 25 2011 19:07 ReboundEU wrote:
This patch is the bigest and most well made i have seen for SC2. There's abs no downside to any of the notes. Really can't wait for it to go live. I would think the barracks build time change has a lot of downsides, like basically making every terran relearn every opening because the timings are completely off. Horrible change if it's designed to fix nonsensical cheese. Don't break every build just to fix ladder cheese. What builds does 5 seconds change? 12 rax 13 gas is still 12 rax 13 gas. The only thing that will change that I can see is 11 gas 13 rax... The factory is 5 seconds later, so like 3 real seconds later.
11/11 is probably the big one. I doubt it's intended as a big nerf, just a little tweak to make rax rushes weaker and generally slow down Terran just a touch.
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On August 25 2011 10:24 TERRANLOL wrote:
WHAT. I HATE THIS PATCH lol.
THIS SUX.
I'm kind of mad because hellion effectiveness vs zealots has decreased a lot even though it seemed like hellions were the only legitimate way to deal with zealots in my opinion.
Now hellions 3 shot drones instead of 2 shot.
Plus your 1/1/1 won't be so easy anymore. I love this patch, only thing that I'm curious about is why they didn't do anything about the carrier/corruptor.
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On August 25 2011 19:39 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:33 rpgalon wrote:
the Immortal +1 range and the blink 30+ seconds research is going to fuck PvP, I don't see both going through the PTR.
I think PvP is going to be more about robo after these changes. That's just my guess though.
it is going to be only robo (and stargate sometimes cuz of it), it is a huge change...
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infestors don't need to be nerfed, silver league p and t just need to learn how to use high templars and ghosts instead of posting threads on battle.net complaining about infestor balance. high templar have a 50 energy spell at equal range to fungal that will kill any infestor with enough energy to fungal, but of course most protoss aren't aware that f is a hotkey for high templar. ghosts have emp round with range 10(!) that will drop any infestor with less than full energy below fungal can be cast cloaked and cast twice by each ghost. i will concede that either of these could be buffed to compensate for p and t being retarded, but please do not nerf our precious infestors which we love so much. muta zvz and losing late game zvt/p, awesome work great job.
not sure if this has already been answered but contaminate change is to stop zerg from rushing to 5 overseers and permanently contaminating cyber core to prevent warp gate research ever finishing (i assume).
other changes seem fine.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On August 25 2011 19:43 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I have not followed sc2 for a few weeks. From reading these patch notes i'll have to assume mech was imba in TvP. I hope now it's fixed.
It was more imba in almost every match-up. Ghost-mech is pretty dominant right now, and TvT is filled with BFH
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On August 25 2011 19:36 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:23 darkness wrote:
Btw, why blink got nerfed? I don't think it's imbalanced.
Entirely for PvZ, I think. Blink rushes are really hard to scout from a standard gateway build, and if you don't directly counter them with mass speedlings, you're basically ****ed, if the toss has any blink micro skill at all. A lot of Zergs hate blink stalkers more than anything. Delaying the research gives them that much more time to spawn a batch of lings, it helps. It's not a big deal, since chronoboost applies. just my opinion on it.
Currently the problem is the opposite, though.
Toss has no way of keeping up with zerg macro, which is why we NEED the threat of all-ins to have zergs make some units once in a while. Even the mere threat of blink all-ins makes (made?) playing PvZ on xel naga somewhat more bearable. Seriously, if there is no all-in-threat in PvZ at all, it will become ridiculously zerg favoured very fast.
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On August 25 2011 19:44 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:42 arbitrageur wrote:On August 25 2011 19:40 yeint wrote:On August 25 2011 19:07 ReboundEU wrote:
This patch is the bigest and most well made i have seen for SC2. There's abs no downside to any of the notes. Really can't wait for it to go live. I would think the barracks build time change has a lot of downsides, like basically making every terran relearn every opening because the timings are completely off. Horrible change if it's designed to fix nonsensical cheese. Don't break every build just to fix ladder cheese. What builds does 5 seconds change? 12 rax 13 gas is still 12 rax 13 gas. The only thing that will change that I can see is 11 gas 13 rax... The factory is 5 seconds later, so like 3 real seconds later. 11/11 is probably the big one. I doubt it's intended as a big nerf, just a little tweak to make rax rushes weaker and generally slow down Terran just a touch.
It changes every build, because the orbital comes later, and that cascades down every build.
I don't think it will likely make anything significantly weaker, but the idea that I have to relearn the timings of every opener because of nonsense like 11/11 is just annoying. There should be better ways to balance things, and I honestly hope this doesn't stick.
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General
Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.
what does this mean? that units wich are on the high ground can see 1 range less far or?
realy dont get this:s
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On August 25 2011 19:42 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:36 Leporello wrote:On August 25 2011 19:23 darkness wrote:
Btw, why blink got nerfed? I don't think it's imbalanced.
Entirely for PvZ, I think. Blink rushes are really hard to scout from a standard gateway build, and if you don't directly counter them with mass speedlings, you're basically ****ed, if the toss has any blink micro skill at all. A lot of Zergs hate blink stalkers more than anything. Delaying the research gives them that much more time to spawn a batch of lings, it helps. It's not a big deal, since chronoboost applies. just my opinion on it. it is not a big deal in PvZ, in PvP alongside with immoral buff and -1 range from down ramps, it is going to make EVERY protoss player go 2gate robo or 3 gate robo.
As opposed to 4gate, but I personally am okay with that. Also, Stargate builds will become more popular to, as a counter to the more popular robo builds. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
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On August 25 2011 19:45 sleepingdog wrote:
Toss has no way of keeping up with zerg macro, which is why we NEED the threat of all-ins to have zergs make some units once in a while. Even the mere threat of blink all-ins makes (made?) playing PvZ on xel naga somewhat more bearable. Seriously, if there is no all-in-threat in PvZ at all, it will become ridiculously zerg favoured very fast.
OTOH the current Zerg beloved strategy of making a shitton of roaches and a-moving will be more comfortably dealt with. With immortals having improved range they'll put their sick DPS to use.
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On August 25 2011 19:45 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:43 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I have not followed sc2 for a few weeks. From reading these patch notes i'll have to assume mech was imba in TvP. I hope now it's fixed. It was more imba in almost every match-up. Ghost-mech is pretty dominant right now, and TvT is filled with BFH
OK. I have a lot of catching up to do then. 
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Anyone else excited for the Ultralisk build time reduce?
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EPT
