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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 19:30 Andr3 wrote:
Wow really beautiful, I can't wait to micro my immortal/warpprism ^^
I just don't understand the nerf to contaminate...? Maybe blizzard is seeing something, because we haven't really seen many contaminate centered strategies(zenio is an exception, but that is counterable).
its because they halfed the gas cost of the overseer they dont want like 10 overseers contaminating everything constantly.
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Take THAT meching terrans! I hope hellions are useless now! No more stupid hellion on hellion battles hopefully.
I dont get the barracks nerf though, were barracks building too fast before?
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On August 25 2011 19:30 Andr3 wrote:
Wow really beautiful, I can't wait to micro my immortal/warpprism ^^
I just don't understand the nerf to contaminate...? Maybe blizzard is seeing something, because we haven't really seen many contaminate centered strategies(zenio is an exception, but that is counterable).
They halfed the gas cost of overseers. I'm sure that would have had an effect on ZvZ if they had kept contaminate the same...
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On August 25 2011 19:30 Andr3 wrote:
Wow really beautiful, I can't wait to micro my immortal/warpprism ^^
I just don't understand the nerf to contaminate...? Maybe blizzard is seeing something, because we haven't really seen many contaminate centered strategies(zenio is an exception, but that is counterable).
They want to keep it 1 contaminate per overseer trip IIRC.
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the Immortal +1 range and the blink 30+ seconds research is going to fuck PvP, I don't see both going through the PTR.
they should have buffed phoenix graviton beam instead of the immortal, making graviton beam 25 energy vs light units, it would make phoenix a great harras and counter to the 1-1-1, it would not make hydras useless since you need 1 phoenix for each hydra (energy is not a problem) while you need 1 phoenix for each 3-4 marines (energy IS a problem).
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Seems like good changes but the barracks change is really stupid, at this state of the game changing a core buildings build time still, not smart at all....
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On August 25 2011 19:31 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:30 Andr3 wrote:
Wow really beautiful, I can't wait to micro my immortal/warpprism ^^
I just don't understand the nerf to contaminate...? Maybe blizzard is seeing something, because we haven't really seen many contaminate centered strategies(zenio is an exception, but that is counterable). its because they halfed the gas cost of the overseer they dont want like 10 overseers contaminating everything constantly.
Yes that might be it, but I don't think it would be wise to invest so much into overseers when zerg needs so much gas. Just sounds risky to me. But I guess you're right.
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infestor nerf wasnt necessary, other than that great patch
oh and thank god blizz finally realized how stupid it was seeing a terran build 2 rax and some bunkers and get pretty much a free win against zerg.
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As a random player, I love this patch by and large:
Love the immortal change so much, I think theyre such a cool unit especially in the early game, and this will make them so much more effective alongside stalkers and will help with the 1-1-1 issue.
Barracks change...not a fan tbh, but only because of my tvt thoughts: tvt sucks. TvT is so boring it makes me want to claw my eyes out. It always ends up like boxer vs rain, cos everyone goes bfh vikings and tanks, tries to set up with missiles turrets etc, usually a couple thors or bcs thrown in. I hate the tank stand off. It always results in me getting bored first once the map is mined out and just throwing my whole army into tank lines cos I just want to play the next game, so now I proxy 7 rax every tvt, wihch will be this much worse now due to barracks change. However, hopefully the bfh change will alter tvt slightly so that it doesnt suck ass?
Range up cliffs thing is cool, and will stop marauders raping stalkers from the low ground, and bfh from shooting queens for free that are blocking ramp, love it.
Warp prism change: Fuck yeah! I already used them but they were so sensitive to base defence and...well everything, and this will make my sentry drops that much more badass.
Ultra timing reduction: sorely needed! Now theyre viable for the 300/400 food pushes, cos the other army doesnt just crush you before your ultras pop 
Infestor change is....hmmm i dont know, ill have to wait and see the results, I think now fungals dont out dps medivacs vs marines in 2 fungals, and you'll need 3, but I dont think this is a big deal, as unless they have a shit ton of medivacs, most of the marines will still die as they wont have a medivac each, so overall not too fussed by this, even though I was an abusive dick and used mass infestors fairly frequently haha.
Mothership buffs can only be a good thing!
Overseer cost change = good, overseer energy change = sad face but probably necessary to avoid mass cheap overseer contaminate.
Bfh nerfs can only be a good thing!
Blink change....erm....what the hell?? Who was struggling with the timing of blink? Maybe mass blink stalkers with sentry blocking ramps vs Z (and t, but not as bad) but thats not timing, thats a late game strat. Now its just not viable to go early blink as your defence will kick in so late and you'll need loads of sentries to keep them out, meaning you dont have many stalkers....oh well, we'll see how this one plays out.
Great patch though!
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Oh White-ra is going to be so happy. Speshul Prism Tektics FTW!
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On August 25 2011 19:28 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 19:26 Vorenius wrote:On August 25 2011 18:34 Cosmos wrote:
Barracks build time is SUCH A JOKE...
-Xel'naga cavern
-pylon on lwoground
-double gate on highground
-profit. Wall off that shit and laugh your ass off ![[image loading]](http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn148/Lifter7/dragontroll2.jpg) Good find to shut the idiots up.
Like this works if someone places his buildings not completely in the corner.
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On August 25 2011 19:33 rpgalon wrote:
the Immortal +1 range and the blink 30+ seconds research is going to fuck PvP I don't see both going true the PTR.
they should have buffed phoenix graviton beam instead of the immortal, making graviton beam 25 energy vs light units, it would make phoenix a great harras and counter to the 1-1-1, it would not make hydras useless since you need 1 phoenix for each hydra (energy is not a problem) while you need 1 phoenix for each 3-4 marines (energy IS a problem).
Actually, this together with the -1 sight upon ramps could completely fix PvP.
Until now it's coinflip, I guess from now on 3 gate robo or 1 gate robo 2 more gates will be very standard. Both can easily transition into blink, nevertheless straight 3 gate blink all-ins will be easily stoppable now.
To be honest, I can already see fast immortal expands being possible, where you add the TC afterwards and contain with blink vs colossus. Right now it's way too coinflippy, so reducing some options is a good move. Although I don't really see why the blink nerf was necessary, the immortal buff should do it single-handedly.
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Nice changes overall. BFH was a bit harsh but too much qq i guess 
WhiteRa will be quite happy with the WP buff :D I also didn't quite understand how the acceleration buff on MS affects the speed of the unit. How long was it taking to reach full speed before and how long after the nerf?
Immortal buff was much needed and combined with Blink and ramp vision nerf will stop this 4g-blink stalker Vs 4g-blink stalkers in PvP. I see robo openings much more common now, which means less mobility and transition to Colossus which hopefully will lead to a bit more macro oriented games.
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On August 25 2011 10:54 Fubi wrote:
I liked how everyone used to complain that Terrans used to just stay on Tier 1 unit against everything and how boring it is... then people started to evolve into more and more Mech play... and now that gets nerfed and people are like "yay no more mech!". The irony
Acctually, ppl were complaining that bio pushes came to early and were too strong. Bio (stim, CS...) got nerfed. So terrans started experimenting with their other stuff. But as things turned out, those other units were OP as well. Thus BFH got nerfed.
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On August 25 2011 19:23 darkness wrote:
Btw, why blink got nerfed? I don't think it's imbalanced.
Entirely for PvZ, I think. Blink rushes are really hard to scout from a standard gateway build, and if you don't directly counter them with mass speedlings, you're basically ****ed, if the toss has any blink micro skill at all. A lot of Zergs hate blink stalkers more than anything. Delaying the research gives them that much more time to spawn a batch of lings, it helps.
It's not a big deal, since chronoboost applies. just my opinion on it.
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On August 25 2011 19:29 B.I.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 10:18 iamke55 wrote:
The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.
lol genius solution! I'm sad that there's no 1/1/1 nerf though. yeah and the -1 vision up a ramp doesn't help scouting stuff like that either :-/.. Im curious about what prompted them to make that change..
The fact that - without any high ground vision - you can warp a unit onto a ramp, which will then give vision above the ramp and you warp in the rest there.
The patch note isn't terribly clear but I'm pretty sure this is the issue they're fixing. People have been asking for a while for PvP.
Immortal change is pretty huge. Range changes in general are deceptively powerful. I guess this + the aforementioned change will officially be the end of the 4gate in PvP ramped maps :0
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As a Terran player I am THRILLED that the Hellion is finally receiving its nerf. Finally TvT will be fun again and finally I can stop feeling I only grasped wins because of the sheer OP'ness of the Hellions. I'm so excited for this patch - really impressed.
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But the fungal its just 6 damage nerf normal, and 1 damage nerf vs armored, so it will be still effective against blink stalkers in the same way at it was till now. And the 30 secs blink nerf it's pretty huge in my op, actually builds like 4 gate blink stalker (naniwa vs ret last game) , wont be viable anymore.
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On August 25 2011 19:33 rpgalon wrote:
the Immortal +1 range and the blink 30+ seconds research is going to fuck PvP, I don't see both going through the PTR.
I think PvP is going to be more about robo after these changes. That's just my guess though.
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On August 25 2011 10:54 avilo wrote:
Wait a minute. What the fuck. ANy time mech becomes viable, they decide to nerf it into the ground?
And what the hell. Wait 50 patches "to see about infestors."
*People find out blueflame is good after ONE TOURNAMENT*
"Let's nerf that asap"
What the hell happened to "wait and see?"
....
These patch notes look horrendously bad. Proxy gates get improved for no reason vs T; TvZ now pressure is much more difficult to apply - they already nerfed the bunker over n over again...
TvT...people already were figuring out how to sim city and defend against hellions, only the bad players died to 4 hellions.
Just wow...infestor nerf..."let's wait and see what happens" as everyone on earth sees how broken it is.
Blue flame hellions invade one tournament, "obviously imba, let's nerf it right away."
Sometimes you really have to wonder.
No you dont. Just look at the last highest lvl play statistics from Korea. T slightly OP in TvZ and really OP in TvP. Thus, a terran nerf was in order.
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EPT
