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On August 12 2011 17:15 Dusen wrote:
Im honestly so sick of playing zerg. Feel like after the warpgate nerf, there is no way you can put decent presesure on them, cause you cant just run back an forward an pick a little bit on the zerg, cause then you just get smashed by lings.
And in no time they have 4 exp. Have no problem with terran, smash most terran i meet but zerg make my ranking fall DOWN.
When you go 4 gate they defend cause of the fast units they can get, when you go macro game they just out produce you.
If you stay passive you lose if you are agressive you lose, how do you win?
..is this a troll? Zergs were saying the exact same thing about Protoss when every zerg was losing to the late game Collossus/Voidray ball or to 4 gates or to 6 gates or to whatever.
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Regarding the 1-1-1 build. This is what the coach of SlayerS (Cella) have to say about it. You know the team with the most top Terran players in the world:
"When a Protoss stops a 1/1/1 Push, it's not because the Protoss played well. It's because the Terran made a mistake!" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101837844032663552
And we also have IMMVP which I'm not for sure if he's joking or not 
"There needs to be a rule where you get disqualified if you use 1/1/1" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101841926554259456
I'm not talking about imbalance but when the coach of the team with the best Terran players in the world says that this push is really bloody damn hard I do believe him.
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The reason I feel protoss are loosing is because they're constantly trying to do gateway timings...6 gates, every game..Even in pro games. On ladder I get it every game, and I hold it every game, it's jsut become too predictable...
I see people like HongUn, doing a differant all-in, every game, I don't see any protoss just playing the standard macro game right now.
6 gates and 7 gates ARE BAD x.X;
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Lately I feel like Protoss is a gamble race. Especially players like MC, HongUn or Inca, who employ very risky strategies and by far the most succesful protoss players in GSL.
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On August 12 2011 17:32 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:15 Dusen wrote:
Im honestly so sick of playing zerg. Feel like after the warpgate nerf, there is no way you can put decent presesure on them, cause you cant just run back an forward an pick a little bit on the zerg, cause then you just get smashed by lings.
And in no time they have 4 exp. Have no problem with terran, smash most terran i meet but zerg make my ranking fall DOWN.
When you go 4 gate they defend cause of the fast units they can get, when you go macro game they just out produce you.
If you stay passive you lose if you are agressive you lose, how do you win? ..is this a troll? Zergs were saying the exact same thing about Protoss when every zerg was losing to the late game Collossus/Voidray ball or to 4 gates or to 6 gates or to whatever.
No.
Yeah the difference is that toss got nerft and zerg got buffed. Protoss have no harrash units, you don't have to commit a ton of ressources to. The DT and the phoenix can both be countert by the evo champer.
Thats one building that cost 75 minerals 1 crawler in eatch base and thats 225 minerlas thats not even the cost for 1 DT :S
We got nothing else, so we have to sit back an build up, but because of the good macro zerg have, they can just get so far ahead cause they ain't getting attackt or anything.
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On August 12 2011 17:48 TheSilverfox wrote:Regarding the 1-1-1 build. This is what the coach of SlayerS (Cella) have to say about it. You know the team with the most top Terran players in the world: "When a Protoss stops a 1/1/1 Push, it's not because the Protoss played well. It's because the Terran made a mistake!" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101837844032663552And we also have IMMVP which I'm not for sure if he's joking or not "There needs to be a rule where you get disqualified if you use 1/1/1" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101841926554259456I'm not talking about imbalance but when the coach of the team with the best Terran players in the world says that this push is really bloody damn hard I do believe him.
yeh and even with that post and the proof of the coach of Slayers posting that you will still have Terran players saying he doesnt know what hes talking about, learn to play, nothign wrong with 111 and stop whining lol
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On August 12 2011 17:32 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:15 Dusen wrote:
Im honestly so sick of playing zerg. Feel like after the warpgate nerf, there is no way you can put decent presesure on them, cause you cant just run back an forward an pick a little bit on the zerg, cause then you just get smashed by lings.
And in no time they have 4 exp. Have no problem with terran, smash most terran i meet but zerg make my ranking fall DOWN.
When you go 4 gate they defend cause of the fast units they can get, when you go macro game they just out produce you.
If you stay passive you lose if you are agressive you lose, how do you win? ..is this a troll? Zergs were saying the exact same thing about Protoss when every zerg was losing to the late game Collossus/Voidray ball or to 4 gates or to 6 gates or to whatever. 4 gate was nerfed, Infestor was buffed primarily to due with the ball you were discussing...
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The difference is, with the threat of a 4gate gone outside of PvP, other races exploit the passivity and general lack of scouting from toss until robo or halluc
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On August 11 2011 17:30 Rarak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:07 Let it Raine wrote:
besides terran all ins, which are ridiculously strong in every matchup
protoss is fine
jyp messed up a ton in those games and i couldnt believe drg managed to lose
that said jyp had a few cool ideas, with the dts in main and hts at natural being one of them Protoss can hardly beat Zerg at high levels anymore and it is being mirrored in ladder at lower levels - I dropped out of masters this week after losing pretty much all my games vs zerg. I can beat masters terrans/toss but struggle vs even diamond zergs...
... same thing on the casual level....
I used to be high diamond and dropped to plat, because I couldn't ever figure out a way to safely get to midgame/lategame on even terms vs Zerg. I pretty much watched only PvZ pro matches for a while and got the feeling that as P you have to somehow surprise or all-in Z, or hope he takes a big risk, because straight up you will just lose, even with better micro. It has come to the point where I usually gift ladder games to z instantly, because I dont enjoy playing this matchup anymore.
Now In plat, a lot of T and P are a walkover for me, so I basically almost never get the interesting late game battles I had before. The upside is that plat terrans usually cannot do a proper marine banshee tank all-in. Its such BS that you can scout early, have the correct read on what your opponent will do and still get completely smashed everytime.
I don't care about any P buffs, because its clear that interracial balance is a pretty subjective thing overall , but personally I'd appreciate the addition of a mirror matchup ladder for casuals like me. PvP is the matchup I've been (exclusively) enjoying a lot since the WG nerf and I'd really appreciate not having to waste any more time with the unbalanced parts of the game to find opponents of similar skill..
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On August 12 2011 18:01 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:32 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 17:15 Dusen wrote:
Im honestly so sick of playing zerg. Feel like after the warpgate nerf, there is no way you can put decent presesure on them, cause you cant just run back an forward an pick a little bit on the zerg, cause then you just get smashed by lings.
And in no time they have 4 exp. Have no problem with terran, smash most terran i meet but zerg make my ranking fall DOWN.
When you go 4 gate they defend cause of the fast units they can get, when you go macro game they just out produce you.
If you stay passive you lose if you are agressive you lose, how do you win? ..is this a troll? Zergs were saying the exact same thing about Protoss when every zerg was losing to the late game Collossus/Voidray ball or to 4 gates or to 6 gates or to whatever. 4 gate was nerfed, Infestor was buffed primarily to due with the ball you were discussing...
Difference is Infestors were already strong before the buff while now 4gate is crap against both terran and zerg. And ofc Infestor/Broodlord is a much better ball than anything else in the game anyway.
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On August 12 2011 17:48 TheSilverfox wrote:Regarding the 1-1-1 build. This is what the coach of SlayerS (Cella) have to say about it. You know the team with the most top Terran players in the world: "When a Protoss stops a 1/1/1 Push, it's not because the Protoss played well. It's because the Terran made a mistake!" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101837844032663552And we also have IMMVP which I'm not for sure if he's joking or not "There needs to be a rule where you get disqualified if you use 1/1/1" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101841926554259456I'm not talking about imbalance but when the coach of the team with the best Terran players in the world says that this push is really bloody damn hard I do believe him.
Well I suppose this is the proof that will quiet the lower level terrans that are telling us "we're doing it wrong"
When the coach of the most terran heavy team puts a statement out like that, it really makes me lose hope. As for IMMVP, whether it's serious or not, coming from arguably the world's best terran, is pretty disheartening.
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On August 12 2011 17:50 enecateReAP wrote:
The reason I feel protoss are loosing is because they're constantly trying to do gateway timings...6 gates, every game..Even in pro games. On ladder I get it every game, and I hold it every game, it's jsut become too predictable...
I see people like HongUn, doing a differant all-in, every game, I don't see any protoss just playing the standard macro game right now.
6 gates and 7 gates ARE BAD x.X;
You clearly didn't watch the GSL, then. Neither MC nor Alicia tried Gateway timing pushes, and both got knocked out early.
If anything, people are calling out to MC to go for Gateway pushes again, as that is pretty much all that has a good chance of beating 1-1-1.
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Unless a new unit is added ( not gonna happen ) or some buffs/nerfs are done, situation wont evolve I believe.
Terrans and Zergs were not using the whole potential of their race by leaving some units aside ( talking abt Ghosts,Mechs and Infestors ) in addition to some new strats/units compositions rearrangement.
Protoss players already use all the units they can ( no point in talking abt Carriers/Mothership ) and there is very little room for improvement other than units compositions and new BOs.
Well we'll see what will happen in the next few months
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Netherlands44 Posts
I hope the top protoss find a way to overcome this downfall. But i think they will need some help from blizzard
The 1-1-1 is so boring to see and in every pro matchup it is an easy BO win for the terran. With offcourse the exception of a poorly excecuted 1-1-1 build. I am not sure if there is an way to punish this allin because most builds will just scout it to late. It is possible to define a build specific to couter this(quick robo?). But this will cause protoss to be locked in to one BO with one techpath.
For zerg part is offcourse somewat due to the infestor change(it counters so much, air and ground, cloacked etc). But also zerg just are getting better. They learned how to stop the timing pushes and are using this to their advantage
Overall i think the biggest problem of protoss is not that other races are imbalanced. The problem is more that protoss is (to?) delicate. If you miss a force field in early stages you die, if you don't have detection and a cloack banshee arrives you die, if you lose you collosies you die, if you lose your HT's you die etc. If you play perfect you maybe win. But how to 'fix' this i have no idea. Overall i think they still need to buff the warprism a bit or give it an upgrade in the form of health/shields. It would be nice to see more warpprism play,
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I've watched pro BW for years, where P are also the historical weak race but people cite the 'lack of P heroes' as the problem rather than balance. It's funny to see the same line of argument in SC2. It's a statistical implausibility that all the players of a race happen to be worse than their counterparts. Apply that argument to years of results and it's simply absurd.
The only thing that would make it plausible is if there were flaws in the race that caused good players to avoid it, either way the problem lies with game design.
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Wow asd tried to do the 1-1-1 to puzzle in the GSTL.. and he made phoenixes? I don't know if this is a breakthrough because asd lost 3 banshees for free and then puzzle still only just held it with probes and what not. Puzzle had expanded though.
It's ridiculous how much the 1-1-1 is being used in the GSL..
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On August 12 2011 17:48 TheSilverfox wrote:Regarding the 1-1-1 build. This is what the coach of SlayerS (Cella) have to say about it. You know the team with the most top Terran players in the world: "When a Protoss stops a 1/1/1 Push, it's not because the Protoss played well. It's because the Terran made a mistake!" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101837844032663552And we also have IMMVP which I'm not for sure if he's joking or not "There needs to be a rule where you get disqualified if you use 1/1/1" - http://twitter.com/OrangeMilkis/status/101841926554259456I'm not talking about imbalance but when the coach of the team with the best Terran players in the world says that this push is really bloody damn hard I do believe him.
Uh huh, that's why SlayerS got 3-killed by TWO protosses (SangHo and HongUn). I love Cella but people need to stop taking everything he says so seriously. Last time he jokingly tweeted he was no longer coach and there was an entire thread popping out blaming and slandering SlayerS_Jessica. That was bad.
And Puzzle just held a variation of 1-1-1 a few minutes ago.
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EPT
