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I can't believe this still is needed but religious and gun control side discussions will be met with harsh penalties from page 52 and onwards. |
On July 23 2011 11:35 carloselcoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:34 Eventh wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 carloselcoco wrote:On July 23 2011 11:22 PanN wrote:On July 23 2011 11:18 carloselcoco wrote:I can assure you a Freemason would never do something like this. I can assure you if he is a Freemason expect him to end up dead within a year. Quit talking out your butt, a freemason is a person like anyone else, you can't just say "a freemason would NEVER do this" And you can't just assume he'll die because he's a freemason, the freemason oaths aren't meant to be taken literally, no freemason has business killing someone because they broke some codes, and if some freemason does kill him, he'll be punished and shunned as well. (I'm an ex master mason) What grade were you? Anders B Breivik was a grade I (Arbeidssom St. Johannes lærling) in 2008 http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/prosjekt/frimurer/losjer/soilene/medlem/80189 That is not Freemasonry, he was part of an unrelated group... BTW, Freemasons, do not go on public (internet) saying they are Freemasons to everyone
I don't think it matters much, but he was a member of Norwegian Order of Freemasons, a Masonic Grand Lodge which is a part of the Freemasonry fraternity.
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I think the reason he didn't commit suicide is because he was planning to get away with it somehow. I think I heard all he ever had on his record was parking tickets. My guess is that he was planning the perfect massacre and almost did it.
This is no doubt the most horrible thing I've heard on the news since 9/11. And I'm feeling even more disgusted right now than I did then.
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On July 23 2011 11:41 Calzu wrote:RIP. Can't even begin to think how many people just got their life ruined and scarred forever 
87 at least dead.
Now factor in family members and friends, we can be talking about 2,000 alone from the dead people.
Add those who were injured who are a greater number than those dead, then add their family members and their friends, it can easily total over 10,000 people. 0.o
That is a lot of people whose lives has been changed in less than a day 0.o
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On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo.
It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
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The thing that makes this so .. unspeakable. He's been gunning down children with such a calm and malice I find it hard to comprehend.
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On July 23 2011 11:41 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:38 Zarahtra wrote:On July 23 2011 09:36 Sqq wrote:On July 23 2011 09:33 Weson wrote:
Norwegian media says that he is a member in a pistol shooting club. He has a lincenced rifle & a gun. He is in a gunrange club yes. Seriously what can you do against people like this? That's the biggest thing I hate about all this, even if Norway and the rest of us put the kind of restrictions/safeties as USA fx has, I think this still would've worked. The fucktard had this all just to fucking well planned There is a very specific thing you can do against this. If a high enough percentage of a population carry firearms, these kinds of things are made impossible or at least reduced to as little death as possible. It would be like trying to commit a massacre at an NRA convention. There will always be predators.
The problem is that he got firearms and explosives in the first place... more arms more violence, simple as it is. And if people were armed this man would have simply switched tactics and used more bombs or whatever ...
I hope they investigate how he even got to these weapons and explosives and punish the providers.
We need less weapons not more.
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On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments.
Are you serious? The bombsite was so unclear that the police couldn't grasp the magnitude - therefore Oslo Police District used what they had at the bombsite. Where the massacre happened was in a different police district. Buskerud police district might have assisted Oslo with some of their crew, which I don't know.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/23/us-norway-blast-idUSTRE76L2VI20110723
Many sought shelter in buildings as shots echoed across the island, ran into the woods or tried to swim to safety. Boats searched for survivors into the night, searchlights sweeping the coast. Helicopters flew overhead.
Survivor Jorgen Benone, who was on the island at the time, said: "I saw people being shot. I tried to sit as quietly as possible. I was hiding behind some stones. I saw him once, just 20, 30 metres away from me. I thought 'I'm terrified for my life', I thought of all the people I love."
Police seized the gunman, who they believed was also linked to the bombing, and later found undetonated explosives on the island
So apparently he planned for yet another bombing..
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I have been following this all day, and i feel lucky to say that one of my friends that were on the island managed to get away safely.
I feel really bad for everyone involved in this (except for the gunman and the people that helped him, if there were any ofcourse) and this is pretty much seems like out of a movie for me.. it's all very strange..
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On July 23 2011 11:45 carloselcoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:41 Calzu wrote:RIP. Can't even begin to think how many people just got their life ruined and scarred forever 87 at least dead. Now factor in family members and friends, we can be talking about 2,000 alone from the dead people. Add those who were injured who are a greater number than those dead, then add their family members and their friends, it can easily total over 10,000 people. 0.o That is a lot of people whose lives has been changed in less than a day 0.o
Wow, looking from that perspective just brings me down even more.
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On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo.
You know what, you're right. I'm too accustomed to resources and procedures in the US. I guess I am silly to expect a QRF of 18 Army Rangers to fast rope down from blackhawks during a military-related domestic attack. All the same, I really feel a lot of lives could have been spared had there been some better prepared armed response protocols. The army becomes involved when bombs detonate in cities. It's no longer an issue of "driving the squad car to the scene of the shooting". It's heavy-response time.
Shame. A damn shame. I really feel bad for all those kids. So many politically motivated kids getting ended before even getting a chance to realize their potential - in Arizona, now here.
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Really guys, don't start talking out of your asses with the police and all. I'm pretty fucking sure they did the best they could, and if they could have arrived earlier they would have. This is not a common thing in Norway, especially when he planned it so well (this makes me sick, having to type this.. but it is true). But you also gotta know that the weather was pretty fucking shit, so they couldn't go in with helicopter because of the sight.
I really doubt he was alone with this. No way in hell I believe 1 freakin man can murder over 80 people, stone cold. I don't know how he did financially, but I've read he had 2 businesses which both failed. Wondering if someone supported him financially with this.
Let's not do this "if" game please.
Either way, I would just like to thank you all on TL. Really amazing seeing how much you all care and support Norway. It's time like these we need it most. Thank you. <3
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On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
It was a camp for a youth wing of a political party. It has been organized in the same place and way for the last 30 years. There were no need for any police presence, thats not how the Norwegian society works.
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On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
It's a summer camp for children. Why the fuck would one need security for this? Heck, there has never been anything remotely close like this happened in Norway before.
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On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
Because this is Norway, not USA. Nobody expected this to happen. As the news tell us, this is the biggest tragedy since the second world war for the Norwegians.
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If that happends in Stockholm Im glad we have The Lifeguards.
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On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
This baffles me as well. A crowd of 700 and no precautions are made. Its easy to spot mistakes after horrible events have happened though.
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On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
It's a very tiny island, and not really that much of a political event, they are there camping and probably do some discussing, barbequing, swimming etc.
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This is all so saddening.
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On July 23 2011 11:50 haegN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island? This baffles me as well. A crowd of 700 and no precautions are made. Its easy to spot mistakes after horrible events have happened though.
It's a youth camp for young politically interested kids.. nothing more.. Security shouldnt be needed on a high level there..
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