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I can't believe this still is needed but religious and gun control side discussions will be met with harsh penalties from page 52 and onwards. |
On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:
It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
It's a "political camping trip" for kids, not really a terror target.
Would make as much sense as having armed guards at every single school, etc.
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On July 23 2011 11:41 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:38 Zarahtra wrote:On July 23 2011 09:36 Sqq wrote:On July 23 2011 09:33 Weson wrote:
Norwegian media says that he is a member in a pistol shooting club. He has a lincenced rifle & a gun. He is in a gunrange club yes. Seriously what can you do against people like this? That's the biggest thing I hate about all this, even if Norway and the rest of us put the kind of restrictions/safeties as USA fx has, I think this still would've worked. The fucktard had this all just to fucking well planned  There is a very specific thing you can do against this. If a high enough percentage of a population carry firearms, these kinds of things are made impossible or at least reduced to as little death as possible. It would be like trying to commit a massacre at an NRA convention.
Don't try and start this discussion all over again people...
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I wonder how he got fire arms and explosives on the island ?
Where the explosives placed before ? I wonder for how long this man has been planning this and who helped him and provided him with the weapons and tools. I cant imagine what this guy was like before the attack, where he worked what he did, what frineds and family he had.
I wnat to know the history of this man wich lead to all this suffering.
It is unimaginable, the hatred this man must have had to kill so many children in cold blood ...
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On July 23 2011 11:48 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. You know what, you're right. I'm too accustomed to resources and procedures in the US. I guess I am silly to expect a QRF of 18 Army Rangers to fast rope down from blackhawks during a military-related domestic attack. All the same, I really feel a lot of lives could have been spared had there been some better prepared armed response protocols. The army becomes involved when bombs detonate in cities. It's no longer an issue of "driving the squad car to the scene of the shooting". It's heavy-response time. Shame. A damn shame. I really feel bad for all those kids. So many politically motivated kids getting ended before even getting a chance to realize their potential - in Arizona, now here.
Even from a US perspective it's very difficult to blame the authorities. After all, even in America, the Pentagon managed to get hit on 9/11 after the NYC attacks. No country can really respond well to huge disasters like this. Hopefully countries will see this though and start planning ahead for when things like this do happen so that we don't have to watch something like this ever happen again.
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You can't really blame the police for this. You have to understand, Norway isn't America with 100 SWAT teams ready 24/7 for some action . Who would think something like this would happen? Everyone was so chocked and taken by the bomb, Police, medics, firefighters - everything had focus on the bomb and possible more bombs in the city. Telephone lines was overloaded and stuff like that. I hate to say it but Anders (the shooter) planned this almost perfectly and took advantage by that so he could be alone for such a long time on an small island dressed as a cop with over 500 confused and scared kids, with machineguns and scope to just go rampage close target and pick off people trying to swim for their life with the scope on his gun. Police had no idea on how many they were on that island, what equipment they had. As far as they knew, they could have gotten their boats blown up on their way to the island.
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On July 23 2011 11:51 DAVEsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:50 haegN wrote:On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island? This baffles me as well. A crowd of 700 and no precautions are made. Its easy to spot mistakes after horrible events have happened though. It's a youth camp for young politically interested kids.. nothing more.. Security shouldnt be needed on a high level there..
It's possibly the biggest, softest target that could possibly exist. There will always be predators and there are predators everywhere. There is no reason not to expect this in Norway. Norway has less than 2% the population of the US. There is no reason to think that just because it has never happened before that it will never happen.
I'm not saying there should have been a SWAT team on that island or anything like that. A couple adults concealing pistols and a rifle locked in a safe and everyone on that island would have had a much better chance of survival.
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Seeing he got the explosive planted on the island, it might have supposed to be the other way around, first set off an explosion there which would trigger an emergency poltical meeting, if that was the case he would end up killing all the top leaders in norway with the bomb in Oslo.
Either way this makes me ill and I can't really believe what have happend today.
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It was 560 on the island. 80 people atleast were killed out of 560.
If my calculations are correct thats 14% of the people that were on the Island died.
That's every 7th person shot.
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Considering how most of the world media have been running this as an international terrorism incident, I wonder if they're actually (secretly) disappointed and how quickly it'll disappear from the front pages of newspapers.
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On July 23 2011 11:41 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:38 Zarahtra wrote:On July 23 2011 09:36 Sqq wrote:On July 23 2011 09:33 Weson wrote:
Norwegian media says that he is a member in a pistol shooting club. He has a lincenced rifle & a gun. He is in a gunrange club yes. Seriously what can you do against people like this? That's the biggest thing I hate about all this, even if Norway and the rest of us put the kind of restrictions/safeties as USA fx has, I think this still would've worked. The fucktard had this all just to fucking well planned There is a very specific thing you can do against this. If a high enough percentage of a population carry firearms, these kinds of things are made impossible or at least reduced to as little death as possible. It would be like trying to commit a massacre at an NRA convention.
STFU please, I promise you we do not want' people to carry guns. That is no way to gain safety...
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My thoughts and payers go out to all the people of Norway. Such a horrible act of needless bloodshed
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On July 23 2011 11:56 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:51 DAVEsc2 wrote:On July 23 2011 11:50 haegN wrote:On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island? This baffles me as well. A crowd of 700 and no precautions are made. Its easy to spot mistakes after horrible events have happened though. It's a youth camp for young politically interested kids.. nothing more.. Security shouldnt be needed on a high level there.. It's possibly the biggest, softest target that could possibly exist. There will always be predators and there are predators everywhere. There is no reason not to expect this in Norway. Norway has less than .02% the population of the US. There is no reason to think that just because it has never happened before that it will never happen.
Seriously, this is just as baffling as the utter lack of Anti Air missiles on New York's rooftops on 9/11.
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On July 23 2011 11:52 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:
It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island? It's a "political camping trip" for kids, not really a terror target. Would make as much sense as having armed guards at every single school, etc.
Ok, that makes more sense, though I'm still baffled why it took 2 hours for police response. If one's response procedure allows a single armed man to murder 90 people, it should be reviewed at the very least. 90 people is quite possibly the most murders by a single gunman in history, and easily eclipses the U.S.'s "record" of 32, so something clearly went very, very wrong. Norway is an otherwise very competent state, so I have to assume there will be improvements in the future.
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On July 23 2011 11:57 Quotidian wrote:
Considering how most of the world media have been running this as an international terrorism incident, I wonder if they're actually (secretly) disappointed and how quickly it'll disappear from the front pages of newspapers.
Well even a mass murder is less "interesting" than a terrorist attack because there won't be a retaliation against a group, they caught the one guy that did this and it's over.
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Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
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This man describes himself as a conservative, having stated that the biggest political issue now is nationalism against internationalism. He believes that multiculturalism is the greatest threat we face.
He has been reading a lot of books and has a very elaborate vocabolary.
He enjoys World of Warcraft and Call of Duty. On his facebook page we can see that he has studied 15000 hours of religion, finance and history. On his own.
He states that multiculturalism is about deconstructing the majority.
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On July 23 2011 11:52 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:
It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island? It's a "political camping trip" for kids, not really a terror target. Would make as much sense as having armed guards at every single school, etc.
We have guards at schools in the states. Thats why some posters here may be confused by the relative lack of security.
I have no interest in the matter, this kind of thing can happen just as easily with guards around too.
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On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote:
Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
Its essentially a youth party camp, they are 14-19, not 8 years old.
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On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote:
Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
Lol yeah, it´s common in every country all the time.
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On July 23 2011 11:59 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:56 OsoVega wrote:On July 23 2011 11:51 DAVEsc2 wrote:On July 23 2011 11:50 haegN wrote:On July 23 2011 11:46 domovoi wrote:On July 23 2011 11:37 sidesprang wrote:On July 23 2011 11:32 FallDownMarigold wrote:On July 23 2011 11:29 Grettin wrote:On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote:
I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned. Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived? Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments. It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo. It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island? This baffles me as well. A crowd of 700 and no precautions are made. Its easy to spot mistakes after horrible events have happened though. It's a youth camp for young politically interested kids.. nothing more.. Security shouldnt be needed on a high level there.. It's possibly the biggest, softest target that could possibly exist. There will always be predators and there are predators everywhere. There is no reason not to expect this in Norway. Norway has less than .02% the population of the US. There is no reason to think that just because it has never happened before that it will never happen. Seriously, this is just as baffling as the utter lack of Anti Air missiles on New York's rooftops on 9/11. See my edit. Reasonable and easy precautions would have given everyone on that island a much better chance.
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EPT
