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Active: 1598 users

Why Nansha Islands (Spratlys) belongs to China

Forum Index > Closed
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Qi
Profile Joined June 2011
China31 Posts
June 18 2011 17:20 GMT
#1
Please no hate and ignorant posts. 
Limit the discussion to facts and educated opinion.
Thanks


This is an issue that unofficially started in the 1990s, were revived in the early 2000s, and in the last few weeks has been a hot international issue on diplomacy and geopolitics.

Let me go straight to the point: China has undeniable historical claim over the Nansha Islands (Spratlys).

Basics about the Nansha Islands and neighboring geography
The South China Sea encompasses a portion of the Pacific Ocean stretching roughly from Singapore and the Strait of Malacca in the southwest, to the Strait of Taiwan (between Taiwan and China) in the northeast. The area includes more than 200 small islands, rocks, and reefs, with the majority located in the Paracel and Spratly Island chains. The Spratlys links the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean. All its islands are coral, low and small, about 5 to 6 meters above water, spread over 160,000 to 180,000 square kilometers of sea zone (or 12 times that of the Paracels), with a total land area of 10 square kilometers only. The Paracels also has a total land area of 10 square kilometers spread over a sea zone of 15,000 to 16,000 square kilometers.

Many of these islands are partially submerged islets, rocks, and reefs that are little more than shipping hazards not suitable for habitation.

Which countries are also claiming the Nansha Islands
Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, and Chinese Taipei

Why is everyone interested in China's Nansha Islands
The islands are important, however, for strategic and political reasons, because ownership claims to them are used to bolster claims to the surrounding sea and its resources.

The South China Sea is rich in natural resources such as oil and natural gas. These resources have garnered attention throughout the Asia-Pacific region. Until recently, East Asia's economic growth rates had been among the highest in the world, and despite the current economic crisis, economic growth prospects in the long-term remain among the best in the world. This economic growth will be accompanied by an increasing demand for energy. Over the next 20 years, oil consumption among developing Asian countries is expected to rise by 4% annually on average, with about half of this increase coming from China. If this growth rate is maintained, oil demand for these nations will reach 25 million barrels per day - more than double current consumption levels -- by 2020.

Almost of all of this additional Asian oil demand, as well as Japan's oil needs, will need to be imported from the Middle East and Africa, and to pass through the strategic Strait of Malacca into the South China Sea. Countries in the Asia-Pacific region depend on seaborne trade to fuel their economic growth, and this has led to the sea's transformation into one of the world's busiest shipping lanes. Over half of the world's merchant fleet (by tonnage) sails through the South China Sea every year. The economic potential and geopolitical importance of the South China Sea region has resulted in jockeying between the surrounding nations to claim this sea and its resources for themselves.

Recent update on the issue
In an attempt to legally exercise its due jurisdiction over the area, China has increased its military presence in the Nansha Islands this week. This is a reaction to recent actions by a claimant country, the Philippines, after it's military forces removed markers that establish China's borders over the territory. The Philippines, one of the most aggressive countries to lay claim on the Chinese islands, is recently in talks with neighboring countries and fellow claimants Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, and other members of the ASEAN (Association of South East Asian Nations). China was not invited in the multilateral talk.

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Jiang Yu said that “any one-sided action taken by any country on the Nansha Islands is illegal and invalid.” He added that countries who wish to explore the islands and its surrounding waters must first get China's permission. In addition, Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Liu Jianchao has assured the Philippines and other South East Asian countries that China's increased presence in the islands are merely legal means to establish its rightful claim over its territory, and added that it “does not change our position and attitude for peaceful settlement” and will not strain its economic relation with the country.

Yu has also added that the US should stay away with this issue as it is neither a claimant nor part of the ASEAN. The US has a military agreement with the Philippines.

Historical records that show why China owns Nansha Islands
+ Show Spoiler +
200BC around
China firstly discovered the Spratly Islands and other Suthern Sea Islands

111BC
China started to occupy and govern the Southern Sea Islands

206BC-24AD
Most of the Paracel, the Spratlys and Pratas Island were known by Chinese geographers of the Han Dynasty

23-220AD
Yang Fu of the East Han Dynasty made the reference to Nansha Islands in his book entitled Yi Wuzi (Records of Rarities)

220
Nansha (Spratly) Island was settled by Chinese monks, building up a monastery on that island.

220-280AD
General Kang Tai one of the famous ancient Chinese navigator of East Wu State of the Three Kingdoms Period mentioned Nansha Islands in his book Funan Zhuan (or Journeys to and from Phnom) (the name of an ancient state in today's Cambodia).

265-420AD
Fei Yuan of the Jin Dynasty(265-420 A.D.) wrote about the fishing and collecting of coral samples by the fishermen of China on the South China Sea in his article Chronicles of Guangzhou.

789
The Tang Dynasty, China included the Nansha Islands into its administrative map

990
Spratley Islands became a part of the Northern Song area in Hainan

1121
Kublai Khan controlled most of the islands during China's Yuan Dynasty

1211
The island group shown on a Chinese Map

1250
Chinese fishermen became the right by the Pan-Han Dynasty to settle on some of the northern islets and reefs.

1405
Cheng Ho, the official minister of the Ming Kings, visited several northern islands of the Spartly Islands Group, Cheng Ho made several vojages to the Spratly Group and mapped most of the northern reefs and island, today a reason for China, to occupay the complete group. In 1436 an excellent map of the reefs is shown by the Ming-Dynasty.

1406 - 1444
most of the reefs and islet were successsively maped by Chinese geographers

1478
A China brigg run on Amboya Cay's reef and Archeologists found about 300 ancident vessels, made by ceramics.

1530
Alvarez de Diegoz, one of Albuquerque's navigators found several scattered tiny islets and reefs on his way to the future Macao area

1606
The Spain adventure and sailor Andreas de Pessora reached some of the western Spratly islands and named 'a larger islet' with the name Isla Santa Esmeralda Pequena. Today it is unknown which island Pessora reached, but it could be Spratly Island, or also one of the south-eastern islets.

1710
The Chinese Ching Dynasty claimed two northern islands and errected a small temple on North East Cay.

1730
Pirates settled on several islands and hold up British, Portugese and Dutch ships, crossing the area. In 1735 the British troups runn over and destroyed several priate camps located on some islands.

1791
Captain Spratle arived in the group and named the islands by his name. He was one of Captain Collets navigators.

1798
The British built up an iron observation tower on Itu Aba Islet. The remainds are visible till today.

1804
The British vessel HMS Macclesfield run on a drying reef in the southwest corner of the shoals, known today as the Macclesfield Shoals (Bank)

1883
The Germans wanted to claim several islands in the Spartly Group, but the Chinese Government threatened with war. After several government notes between Berlin and Peking, Germany gave up Spratly Islands and Paracel Islands but became controller of the area of Tsingtau.

1885
China officially claimed all islands of the Spratly Group

1887
The France built up the first lighttower on Amboyna Cay

1902
Chinese war-ships surveyed and erected sovereignty stone on Paracel Islands.

1908
China gave the right to mine guano from the islands to the British Australian Guano LTD.

1909-03-21
China (Qing Dynasty) set up Paracel Islands administrative committee.

1909-04
China (Qing Dynasty) war-ships surveyed Paracel Islands and affirmed Chinese sovereignty over these islands, fired cannon and hoisted flag.

1911
China - Guangdong Government reaffirmed Paracel Islands is under Qiongya (Hainan Island) Adminstration.

1930
French - Japan War over the rights on the Paracel Islands, and some of the north-western Spratley Reefs.

1932-1935
The Chinese Government set up a committee for the review of Maps of Lands and Waters of China. This committee examined and approved the 132 names of the islands in the South China Sea, all of which belong to Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands.

1933
France raised first official claim to the Paracel and Spratly Islands after invaded and occupied 9 of Nansha Islands, including Taiping and Zhongye. The Chinese fishermen who lived and worked on the Nansha Islands immediatedly made a firm resistance against the invasion and the Chinese Government lodged a strong protest with the French Government.

1939-44

The Spratly Islands were invaded and occupied by Japan and used as a submarine base during the Second World War. The two major bases were on Itu Aba and on Namyit Island in the Tizard Bank.In line with the Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclamation, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of China, in consultation with the Navy and the government of Guangdong Province, appointed Xiao Ciyi and Mai Yunyu Special Commissioner to the Xisha and Nansha Islands respectively in 1946 to take over the two archipelagoes and erect marks of sovereignty on the Islands.

1946
China declared the Spratlys as a part of the Guangdong Province, and seized the biggest island of Tai Ping Dao (Itu Aba).

1947
The Ministry of Internal Affairs of China renamed 159 islands, reefs, islets and shoals on the South China Sea, including the Nansha Islands. It subsequently publicized all the names for administrative purposes

1947
The Philippines claimed some of the eastern islands in the Spratly Group and claimed too the Scarborough Reef.

1948
The Philippines claimbed the offshore Scarborough Reef, one of the most outlier reefs in the northeastern Spratly Islands. A light was errected and an oberservationtower on the South Rock, a 5 ft high rocky and steep sided islet.

1951
At the San Francisco conference, Japan renounces all rights to the Spratly Islands. No resolution is made on who owns them.

1956
The Philippines built up a mailitary base on North Danger Reef.

1961
Taiwan annexed several reefs in the northeastern part of the Spratly Group.

1969
On Spratly Island the American Navy errected a Radar Station, closed in 1971.

1974
China occupies Paracel Islands to the north of the Spratly Islands, taking them from South Vietnam.

1978
China occupies six atolls in the Spratly Islands, taking them from Vietnam.

1979, 21.Dec.
Malaysia claimbed Swallow Reef (Layang Layang Reef) and built up a base. In January

1980
Malaysia continued in claimbing and annexed several reefs in the southern and south-western group. A second Malayan station was built on Amboyna Cay, heave disputed with Vietnam

1982
Internatinal conflict between Vietnam and Malysia, when Malaysia claimbed Amboyna Cay.

1984
Brunei claimbed the Louise Reef in the eastern group

1988
Chinese and Vietnamese navies clash at Johnson Reef. Two Vietnamese gunboats are sunk and seventy people die. Chinese troops has been garrisoned on the reef.

1991
Indonesia organises the first of its annual informal meetings (The South China Sea Workshop) of the six claimants to the Spratly Islands to find a peaceful solution to the dispute. Malaysia begins to develop a reef for tourism.

1992
ASEAN nations and China call for restraint in pursuit of territorial claims in the Spratly Islands.

1994,November
The US oil giant Exxon signs a US$35 billion deal to develop the gas fields north of Natuna Island. This area is partly claimed by China.

1995,8 February
The Philippines's armed forces discover Chinese-constructed concrete markers on Mischief Reef, within 200 kilometres of Palawan Island, in the Philippines.

1995,20-28 March
The Philippines seize Chinese fishing boats and crew, and destroy Chinese markers on Mischief Reef.

1995,31 March
Taiwanese naval mission of armed patrol boats to the Spratly Islands is called off midway to its destination.

1995, 7 April
Indonesia expresses concern over Chinese maps claiming sovereignty over part of the huge Natuna gas fields to the south of the Spratly Islands.

2011 June
The Philippines destroy Chinese markers on the Nansha Islands

SpeaKEaSY
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1070 Posts
June 18 2011 17:26 GMT
#2
[image loading]

So China can just claim all the territory all the way to the coasts of other countries? I don't think so, Tim.
Aim for perfection, settle for mediocrity - KawaiiRice 2014
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 17:28:26
June 18 2011 17:28 GMT
#3
Lol ^

I know you mention "strategic value" in the OP but I think that goes beyond "strategic value" and ventures into the realm of "OMFGTHISISIMPORTANT".
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
June 18 2011 17:31 GMT
#4
What the hell? This came out of nowhere.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
xHassassin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States270 Posts
June 18 2011 17:39 GMT
#5
On June 19 2011 02:31 bonifaceviii wrote:
What the hell? This came out of nowhere.


Read the damn post.


2011 June
The Philippines destroy Chinese markers on the Nansha Islands


Honestly IMO it's unwise for any of those countries to be provoking China right now. No idea why they decided this would be a good idea.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
June 18 2011 17:43 GMT
#6
Are you working for the Chinese government ?
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Doppelganger
Profile Joined May 2010
488 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 17:47:51
June 18 2011 17:46 GMT
#7
On June 19 2011 02:39 xHassassin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 02:31 bonifaceviii wrote:
What the hell? This came out of nowhere.


Read the damn post.

Show nested quote +

2011 June
The Philippines destroy Chinese markers on the Nansha Islands


Honestly IMO it's unwise for any of those countries to be provoking China right now. No idea why they decided this would be a good idea.


Actually China is a little bit in a dilemma. If they show their muscle the will pretty much scare the crap out of the entire region. Cause many other states would feel threatened and they might band together to go against the Chinese interests or call upon the US for protection. But if the Chinese sit back other countries will threaten their interests, so china needs to act very carefully.

(sorry little bit redundant in the first two sentences but I am way to tired to make sense right now XD)
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
June 18 2011 17:46 GMT
#8
I don't really know about the "undeniable historical claim" over the Islands, they've been claimed by a number of surrounding countries in the past and have been on older maps of other countries too, that doesn't really mean anything.

Also, looking at the map SpeaKEaSY posted, I'm not surprised at all that some of those countries want the Islands, it's right off their coast. That's an incredibly strange line of claim to stretch out and if it goes undisputed, great for them, but since it isn't, I don't think I would say, "Yeah, it clearly belongs to China".
baby elephant
Profile Joined April 2011
273 Posts
June 18 2011 17:47 GMT
#9
also, dokdo is korea territory
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 17:55:49
June 18 2011 17:49 GMT
#10
nevermind I shouldn't post in such thread with little knowledge
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Ravencruiser
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada519 Posts
June 18 2011 17:51 GMT
#11
On June 19 2011 02:46 Doppelganger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 02:39 xHassassin wrote:
On June 19 2011 02:31 bonifaceviii wrote:
What the hell? This came out of nowhere.


Read the damn post.


2011 June
The Philippines destroy Chinese markers on the Nansha Islands


Honestly IMO it's unwise for any of those countries to be provoking China right now. No idea why they decided this would be a good idea.


Actually China is a little bit in a dilemma. If they show their muscle the will pretty much scare the crap out of the entire region. Cause many other states would feel threatened and they might band together to go against the Chinese interests or call upon the US for protection. But if the Chinese sit back other countries will threaten their interests, so china needs to act very carefully.

(sorry little bit redundant in the first two sentences but I am way to tired to make sense right now XD)


China KNOWS it can exert considerable military leverage before having to worry about the U.S.

We all remember Vietnam don't we? Well China would be easily 50x Vietnam.

U.S. isn't stupid enough to flex its terribly weakened (by their economy) military muscles against China anytime soon short of China invading a neighboring country.
"Yah, free will is a bitch" - Drone
fush
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada563 Posts
June 18 2011 17:54 GMT
#12
On June 19 2011 02:49 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 02:43 Boblion wrote:
Are you working for the Chinese government ?

I thought this post was made by an honest person who studied/is fascinated by Chinese culture/history. Then an idea came across my mind "where is the poster from?"
China.
I won't agree with Chinese claims,spreading communism is not what I'd like to see.
Besides,they did it because they can. I can't see Poland and Lithuania claiming the Kaliningrad Oblast.


not that i agree with the OP (being chinese myself), but you have made the most porous argument there is.

you made your judgement of the OP not by what he wrote, but by his nation tag? if he tagged south africa, you'd believe him?
also, spreading communism? what era are you living in?


Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 18 2011 17:55 GMT
#13
As far as I know, the so-called 'historical claim' means shit. Because that means China should not own Tibet, inner Mongolia, and the all other parts of the current western China because they have been historically part of other sovereign until about 1700s.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
June 18 2011 17:55 GMT
#14
While it would be fairly hard to make a case to give China sole control of those islands if they were to be divided without regard for previous claims, China's long historical claims and ardent nationalism makes it a far murkier situation. Its claim are supported by recognized governments of old Chinese regimes, along with its wrest from historical Chinese control by "imperial powers" before and during WWII should still have strong legal standing.
It seems as though China has a pretty good case over control and is probably willing to go to war over it, which would probably lead to its eventual possession over at least a large number of the islands.
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
jester-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada547 Posts
June 18 2011 17:56 GMT
#15
On June 19 2011 02:26 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
[image loading]

So China can just claim all the territory all the way to the coasts of other countries? I don't think so, Tim.


[image loading]

Hrmm? Relevance to location has never been much of a boundary to claim.
Arise, chicken sandwich.
BloodNinja
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2791 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 18:01:02
June 18 2011 17:58 GMT
#16
On June 19 2011 02:56 jester- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 02:26 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
[image loading]

So China can just claim all the territory all the way to the coasts of other countries? I don't think so, Tim.


[spoiler]http://www.alaskaultrasport.com/assets/alaska-nat-parks.jpg[/spoiler]

Hrmm? Relevance to location has never been much of a boundary to claim.


Alaska was purchased by the US from Russia in 1867. A quick scan the history of the islands in question do not show anything remotely similar. I question the relevance of your example, please take 3 seconds to find a better one.
Qi
Profile Joined June 2011
China31 Posts
June 18 2011 17:59 GMT
#17
On June 19 2011 02:46 Mordiford wrote:
I don't really know about the "undeniable historical claim" over the Islands, they've been claimed by a number of surrounding countries in the past and have been on older maps of other countries too, that doesn't really mean anything.

Also, looking at the map SpeaKEaSY posted, I'm not surprised at all that some of those countries want the Islands, it's right off their coast. That's an incredibly strange line of claim to stretch out and if it goes undisputed, great for them, but since it isn't, I don't think I would say, "Yeah, it clearly belongs to China".

What older maps? Show it? Nansha was on China's maps as early as when the Philippines was just represented by its northern island in the Chinese maps (c 200BC)

That geography thing is ignorant of geopolitics. Why is Hawaii, Guam, etc American territories when they are thousand of kilometers away from US mainland. What about Greenland? There is more to geography than mere proximity.

Please read the OP.
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 18:02:43
June 18 2011 18:00 GMT
#18
On June 19 2011 02:58 BloodNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 02:56 jester- wrote:
On June 19 2011 02:26 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
[image loading]

So China can just claim all the territory all the way to the coasts of other countries? I don't think so, Tim.


[spoiler]http://www.alaskaultrasport.com/assets/alaska-nat-parks.jpg[/spoiler]

Hrmm? Relevance to location has never been much of a boundary to claim.


Alaska was purchased by the US from Russia in 1867. A quick scan the history of the islands in question do not show anything remotely similar. I question the relevance of your example, please take 3 seconds to find a better one.



[image loading]
done
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Qi
Profile Joined June 2011
China31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 18:02:44
June 18 2011 18:00 GMT
#19
On June 19 2011 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2011 02:56 jester- wrote:
On June 19 2011 02:26 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
[image loading]

So China can just claim all the territory all the way to the coasts of other countries? I don't think so, Tim.


[image loading]

Hrmm? Relevance to location has never been much of a boundary to claim.


[image loading]
done

Thanks for this
MamiyaOtaru
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1687 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-18 18:04:53
June 18 2011 18:04 GMT
#20
Why would someone create an account here to post this. What need does China have for White Knights on random unrelated web forums
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