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On April 23 2011 08:07 Rorschach wrote:
IDK why everyone loves the idea of having it take longer to warp units in the further away they are from the Nexus. Its a stupid idea and its makes things overcomplicated.
As Toss you shouldn't have to choose whether you should or shouldn't stay on GW or WG. Warpgates are a unique aspect of the race and the mechanics can't be altered too much without really changing all the GW units or other MU's. Blizzard stated they don't want to change the other MU's but just help PVP.
Blizzard WANTS protoss players to use WG and for that reason they will not make a change that makes it better to stick on gateways all game long...
Kind of likes its a no brainier to get stim, concussive and shields as terran if your sticking bio all game long...
Frankly I like it that way.......
I get what you're saying, but having every game play out the same is pretty damn boring too. Having things be complicated and having more decisions to make means that there is more room for the best players to stand out, as opposed to having people who only know how to 4gate get into Master's league. Sure, you can choose to play the same way every game if you want - but not everybody should have to.
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How to grant defenders advantage in PvP:
Make it so, enemy units CANNOT warp into your own pylons energy field
Problem solved and would surely create a few quirky new play mechanics.
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On April 23 2011 08:48 features wrote:
How to grant defenders advantage in PvP:
Make it so, enemy units CANNOT warp into your own pylons energy field
Problem solved and would surely create a few quirky new play mechanics.
there is a huge defender's advantage in PvP.
It's called, don't chrono your warp gate research and instead chrono your gateways.
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On April 23 2011 08:48 michaelhasanalias wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 08:48 features wrote:
How to grant defenders advantage in PvP:
Make it so, enemy units CANNOT warp into your own pylons energy field
Problem solved and would surely create a few quirky new play mechanics. there is a huge defender's advantage in PvP. It's called, don't chrono your warp gate research and instead chrono your gateways.
How is that different from that attacker chronoing their warpgates?
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On April 23 2011 08:47 DeltruS wrote:My preferred nerf would be: - Units can only warp around a nexus. The radius would be similar to the sensor tower's.
- Warp prisms can warp in everywhere but now cost 250 minerals.
We are not talking about nerfing Protoss here 
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On April 23 2011 08:48 michaelhasanalias wrote:
there is a huge defender's advantage in PvP.
It's called, don't chrono your warp gate research and instead chrono your gateways.
Whatever, Ive got no real issue with PvP myself......
But if Blizzard wants to address the issue, Id say using your own pylons energy field to denie enemies warping onto your highground to be a good one.
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Looks like i'll be proxying gates 2 3 and 4.
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Anyone who think Blizzard is going to make a change that would require changing something fundamental in the engine (like the longer warp-in times over distance or warp fields restricted by altitude) is dreaming in Technicolor. Even ignoring whether or not it is a good idea, that's far to major a change to come in a balance patch.
I'd also bet money they won't make gateways produce faster than warpgates, but that is just a hunch.
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On April 23 2011 08:48 michaelhasanalias wrote:
there is a huge defender's advantage in PvP.
Wait, I know you're korean and all so it automatically makes you right but......please tell me you're kidding?
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Modifying Warpgates for fixing PVP will be modifying Warpagets for other matchups. Just keep in mind that, Blizzard.
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On April 23 2011 06:32 travis wrote:
Really though PVP in sc2 is no more retarded than zvz in bw. It's just a fact of life. You win the matchup through unit control or by taking a big risk. Same as zvz in bw.
PVP in bw actually felt like there was just as much luck involvement as in sc2.
(though it was more fun since expansions were more likely to be involved)
You cannot seriously be trying to compare mutalisk control with 4gating, or even blink "micro".
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Actually it seems like gateways should make units faster than warpgates. That way harass and proxy aggression isn't as powerful. It would also help balance other MU's in my opinion. And yes, I play Protoss.
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On April 22 2011 17:52 Luoson wrote:
Wow this is pretty easy to solve, I'm really surprised Blizzard hasnt caught onto something so basic. Stop units being abled to be warped up past a forcefielded ramp. Problem solved.
lol hardly true. Largely fail.
Anyways, I'm glad they are at least looking into the problem. But if they really are going to shift warpgates into a later tech and speed up gateways in return that'll have tremendous consequences for all match ups regardless of what they want. I can't wait, the game will be pretty interesting soon enough.
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No wonder Blizzard hasn't put out real numbers yet, this has to be though very carefully, as a single mistake in timings can break the game again. Nerfing warpgate research too much will affect other matchups as well, but if they buff times from gateway units, 2 gate pressure will be so high again ><
The idea I've read here I support the most is making it so Protoss oponents cannot warp in your pylon field, that would address only PvP and be a perfect solution without breaking more the other match ups. Please, Blizzard, read this thread.
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On April 23 2011 09:06 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 06:32 travis wrote:
Really though PVP in sc2 is no more retarded than zvz in bw. It's just a fact of life. You win the matchup through unit control or by taking a big risk. Same as zvz in bw.
PVP in bw actually felt like there was just as much luck involvement as in sc2.
(though it was more fun since expansions were more likely to be involved) You cannot seriously be trying to compare mutalisk control with 4gating, or even blink "micro".
what does that mean? lol
controlling mutas and lings is micro but controlling zealots and stalkers isn't?
or that one takes skill and the other doesn't?
have u ever watched mc 4gate another protoss who also goes 4gate but mc runs him over anyways?
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is this good in other matchups?
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I think it could be cool if blizzard played around with the role the gateway plays. I mean, as it is now, the gateway is kind of something you're stuck with until you've researched warpgate because having warpgates too fast would be imbalanced.
Even if they gave the gateway such a buff that it's possible to never use warpgate, there'd still be plenty of reason to. If you watch white-ra play, he brings a warp prism with his army and uses it to warp in reinforcements right there in the fight, if you kept with standard gateways you couldn't do that, and it could really cause you to lose battles. Lots of protoss also use warpgates to immediately call in units on reaction to drops or air harass, which standard gateways can't really help with. It would be nice to see players actually have a use for turning warpgates back into gateways though, then transform into warpgates right before a certain timing attack or something, then go back to gateways when it's time to have a more defensive posture.
tl;dr: I think gateways should be useful for more than becoming warpgates.
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On April 23 2011 09:26 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 09:06 a176 wrote:On April 23 2011 06:32 travis wrote:
Really though PVP in sc2 is no more retarded than zvz in bw. It's just a fact of life. You win the matchup through unit control or by taking a big risk. Same as zvz in bw.
PVP in bw actually felt like there was just as much luck involvement as in sc2.
(though it was more fun since expansions were more likely to be involved) You cannot seriously be trying to compare mutalisk control with 4gating, or even blink "micro". what does that mean? lol controlling mutas and lings is micro but controlling zealots and stalkers isn't? or that one takes skill and the other doesn't? have u ever watched mc 4gate another protoss who also goes 4gate but mc runs him over anyways?
Yea, I agree with travis. What's so wrong about PvP becoming the BW ZvZ of SC2?
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it's been 1 or even 2 times that blizzard didn't revert zealot build time
it was about time ¯\(°_o)/¯
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On April 22 2011 17:45 Ragoo wrote:
Wowowowow. I always wanted the Gateway to build faster than the Warpgate. Then you actually make a decision if you want to have Gateways or Warpgates plus defender gets a big advantage! I hope this works :O
agree with the above, as of now there is ZERO REASON to ever have a "regular gateway" in a game.
none at all...
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EPT
