EPTOn February 09 2011 19:23 Spyfire242 wrote:
Because their brains allow them to sense and react to pain.
That's not a good enough reason to stop slaughtering them.Because their brains allow them to sense and react to pain.
[Veganism] Fucking humanity - Page 24
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I am not American, I am German, we import all of our oil. But can you please give me a link for your numbers? By the way, non-constitutional monarchies = dictatorships (like Saudi Arabia, Kuweit, Bahrain, UAE, etc.) A lot of US oil data can be found at the Energy Information Administration, a part of the US Department of Energy. I've lived on this web site for 2 years writing a research paper, not to mention class papers written with this site. http://www.eia.doe.gov/ To sum it up, we are living in a world of cruelty. We humans are perhaps the first animals to begin pondering our cruel relationship with our surrounding. We are living our intellectual infancy, developing one step at a time. Those in future might look at 21st century people with disgust for our meat and plant eating habits, similar to how we look at slavery today. I don't really agree with this philosophy at all. We live in a cruel world, so might as well just be cruel? And people in the past did look at slavery with disgust, the US fought a war over it (yes, that's the reason, its actually that simple, dont let warped history books twist it). Countries simply didn't have democratic institutions to get rid of it at the time - even the US did things such as the 3/5s compromise to prevent slave holding states from having more congressional power to enforce their policies. But this is a HUGE digression... | ||
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Slakter
Sweden1947 Posts
Also, if you dont enjoy vegans pushing their opinions on you you might think about how it feels for vegans to be pushed your opinions on us all day every day of the year and how it feels like to be an animal forced into dying. If you really think that Vegan opinionpushing is a problem, take a fucking look at yourself you tool. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
Save the planet | ||
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Nycaloth
147 Posts
On February 09 2011 19:30 Belial88 wrote: That helps my point even more. Western countries making inefficient meat leads to a greater demand for grains, which poor countries may be able to supply. The poor countries end up supplied with cheap surplus meat while at the same time have someone to sell their grains to, whereas if rich, fatcat westerners didn't demand meat, the poor both wouldnt have food nor a job. I am completely oversimplifying things, of course. But what does that have to do with anything, and your point is just a talking point for me, not you. . But you agree that there is food shortage and malnutrition problems in developing countries. The point is that these countries probably could support themselves if most of their farmland was not tied up in producing meat for the west. Farmers could sell to the local population directly, instead of using western corporations as middle men. This would still allow for a limited production of meat in western countries. This is obviously an issue of scale. I want to state for the record that, while i am a vegetarian, i do not condemn meat consumption on a matter of principle. The point is that at this stage, producing meat for the west seems more important then supplying the world in general with adequate amounts of food. This might make sense from an economical perspective, since the west is where the money is, but is detrimental on humanistic grounds. The point is that imo, the world could be a better place if everyone ate less (note: less, not no) meat, but western society is to self-centered to acknowledge this. | ||
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On February 09 2011 19:35 Sotamursu wrote: Our moral system is meant to keep our society alive and going. Most people agree to "You don't hurt me and I don't hurt you." Humanitarianism is just a way of enforcing this. In the case of animals it is "I don't hurt you and I don't get anything in return." Why would I want to do something that offers me absolutely nothing, but limits my choices? Are you starting see what I mean? If you hold animals in higher regard than other humans, other humans will not like you. Sure that person is entitled to his opinions, but he/she has to be ready to handle the consequences. Some people are against animal testing, even though it has given us huge leaps in medicine and saved thousands, if not millions of human lives. These same people would rather see all of those saved people die, if it meant that a few rats didn't have to suffer. These people can go fuck themselves. I see, so then I just misinterpreted your other posts. Well, a moral system is exactly explaining (as in aiming to provide reasons for) why you should do (or not do) something without expecting anything in return, so it seems to me that you simply think "morals" don't exist, which is fine with me - even though I don't share your point of view. Why do you even have to justify animal experiments with the reduction of human suffering though? I take it for your view that had we the possibility to run lab experiments in the same efficiency that we have now but without harming animals, there would be absolutely no reason to take this possibility, since animals won't give us anything in return anyway ... right? | ||
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Spyfire242
United States715 Posts
On February 09 2011 19:47 Kamais_Ookin wrote: That's not a good enough reason to stop slaughtering them. Well that is your opinion my friend, one that I share! BRING ON THE STEAK. | ||
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
On February 09 2011 19:53 Spyfire242 wrote: So yummy indeed. Well that is your opinion my friend, one that I share! BRING ON THE STEAK.  | ||
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Blackjack111
75 Posts
If i eat at your house, i wont complain about the lack of meat. I'll simply go eat the fuck out of some flesh when we are done. Had this one chick complain about the fact that i'll try just about anything i can get my hands on. Kangaroo, horse, snake, crocodile. "Would you eat a puppy?" *smug face* "I sure would. I would eat your dumb ass too, if i thought you would taste good." Don't mistreat animals if you can avoid it, and people mistreating their pets are despicable. Ohh and try to not make species extinct because you want to crush up their penis for medicin. But we are in a position to eat the fuck out of all the tasty animals there are plenty of, yummy yum yum. This is why i don't feel bad for humans either, if they get jacked by wild animals. They saw their chance, and they took it. Crocodile, shark or lion gets you, you just lost the foodchain game. Get ghosted by a 500 lbs creature, that is all teeth and claws, as a slow, fragile 180 lbs meatbag with gimpy teeth and shitty nails... Face it, you are a foodsource bitch. A chimp rips your nuts and face off? What the fuck were you doing that close to an animal that can easily to that to you anyway? It's not the chimp's fault, it's your fucking fault for being a dumbass. If you are tasty, and not about to die out. At some point i will snuff out your life and put you on bread or eat you with a side of rice. If i think an animal can and will stomp out my existence as it pleases, i stay the fuck on the other side of the glass. | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
On February 09 2011 19:51 Slakter wrote: Haha, Samurai, that is the most retarded thing ive read in this thread. Is it something negative that "today everyone would like to save something.. Save this, save that bla bla bla.."? Also, if you dont enjoy vegans pushing their opinions on you you might think about how it feels for vegans to be pushed your opinions on us all day every day of the year and how it feels like to be an animal forced into dying. If you really think that Vegan opinionpushing is a problem, take a fucking look at yourself you tool. . I am tired of your "saving" kind of people, enforcing your views on us. I guess today, if you are normal, everyone is enforcing something on you.. You eat meat, for what we have done for thousands of years, there is a group like vegans or something that is pushing their believes on you, save this, save that, turn to something else. If you dont have god, again, some group will try to force their believes on you or try to force you to believe to something. If you are hetero, ofcourse there is a gay group calling you something, even though you didnt do anything, but hey, thats life right? Soon i ll be convicted because i am white.. So jeah, i think you are selfrighteous people.. edit: and ofcourse i dont enjoy vegans pushing their oppinions on me because i never ever said anything to vegans, but ofcourse if i defend my self, than i am an intolerant bastard, i have to look around my self, i am tool , i dont feel for the anima bla bla. Well i am going to eat a nice, juicy hamburger really soon, and i ll laugh at your face.. Cheer, meat eaters.. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
So I expect that I can eat whatever I want without anyone telling me if it's good/bad. I will leave open if I'm vegan/vegetarian/meat eater, because it doesnt matter. Tolerate the opinion / lifestyle of others. | ||
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NapstaR
Germany128 Posts
vegans or vegetarians should perhaps not look at it :> but it's SFW i'm against torture or something similar to animals but not against eating them at all. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://picture.yatego.com/images/42a7e7c00da2d8.7/000041373d.gif) | ||
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Facedriller
Sweden275 Posts
I honestly cant imagine how the butchers sleep at night. | ||
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Humppis
Finland52 Posts
On February 09 2011 19:48 Belial88 wrote: I don't really agree with this philosophy at all. We live in a cruel world, so might as well just be cruel? And people in the past did look at slavery with disgust, the US fought a war over it (yes, that's the reason, its actually that simple, dont let warped history books twist it). Countries simply didn't have democratic institutions to get rid of it at the time - even the US did things such as the 3/5s compromise to prevent slave holding states from having more congressional power to enforce their policies. But this is a HUGE digression... Im not vegan, choise is between death and staying alive. I simply dont share this vegan idea that plants are somehow differend from animals. For now, there is no choise but to be cruel, unless you wish to die in starvation. That dosent mean that i should like it or endorse it, id like to see alternatives in future. If there is cruelty on the planet, then we should work into geting rid of it. Ofcourse, in nature cruelty is not something we can abolish, but if you wish to be intellectually anything but a just slightly evolved ape, you should ponder these issues even if it breaks your current world view. Slavery hasnt actually gone anywhere, there are more slaves than ever, modern nations simply look down on it and are mostly intolerant/ignorant( sadly ) of it in their land. As long as we have third world countries, there will be slavery in large scale, and money to be made by the cruel who dont care. edit: fixed quotes a bit. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
But you agree that there is food shortage and malnutrition problems in developing countries. The point is that these countries probably could support themselves if most of their farmland was not tied up in producing meat for the west. Farmers could sell to the local population directly, instead of using western corporations as middle men. This would still allow for a limited production of meat in western countries. I could support myself if I went into the wilderness, and so could many of these homeless people. Its a lack of education and economy that hurts, and people who are disabled or old can't live off the wild either. These countries, and the farmers/people in them, are not forced to make meat for the west. The reason they make grains for the meat for the west is because it makes them more money to do this than to make food to sustain themselves - it's the same reason farmers in Afghanistan make heroin/opium instead of crops - they are better off making drugs and using the cash to buy imported food with money leftover, than to make sustenance and solely live on that. It's the basic principle of trade. I don't really want to explain it when others have done it better, but look up why 3 people making their own thing is much more productive than 3 people simply trying to sustain themselves. This is obviously an issue of scale. I want to state for the record that, while i am a vegetarian, i do not condemn meat consumption on a matter of principle. The point is that at this stage, producing meat for the west seems more important then supplying the world in general with adequate amounts of food. This might make sense from an economical perspective, since the west is where the money is, but is detrimental on humanistic grounds. Quite the opposite is true. Look up how trade works - not to be derisive, but to show that each country doing what it specializes in, is better than every country fending for itself. America will never make rice like Asians can, and Asians can never make beef like we can, and so on. A lot of this depends on the development of the country, which is a process that takes time though. The point is that imo, the world could be a better place if everyone ate less (note: less, not no) meat, but western society is to self-centered to acknowledge this. | ||
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plainsane
Germany98 Posts
classic! PETA and ALF are silly, of course we should ensure that there is as little animal torture as possible, but being against 1. holding animals under decent conditions as a source of food 2. scientific medical research on animals 3. dairy products for children just proves to me that they are blind leftist actionist that will hopefully never get any power whatsoever. | ||
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Zim23
United States1681 Posts
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storm8ring3r
Germany227 Posts
Go cure AIDS and world hunger and let me have my steak. Animal rights are a disease of wealth. Let's solve the world's real problems. You don't see people in poor countries like Bangladesh running around yelling animal cruelty when they have nothing to eat | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
Funny how I was eating meat while watching this dough... | ||
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On February 09 2011 20:02 Samurai- wrote: I am tired of your "saving" kind of people, enforcing your views on us. I guess today, if you are normal, everyone is enforcing something on you.. You eat meat, for what we have done for thousands of years, there is a group like vegans or something that is pushing their believes on you, save this, save that, turn to something else. If you dont have god, again, some group will try to force their believes on you or try to force you to believe to something. If you are hetero, ofcourse there is a gay group calling you something, even though you didnt do anything, but hey, thats life right? Soon i ll be convicted because i am white.. So jeah, i think you are selfrighteous people.. edit: and ofcourse i dont enjoy vegans pushing their oppinions on me because i never ever said anything to vegans, but ofcourse if i defend my self, than i am an intolerant bastard, i have to look around my self, i am tool , i dont feel for the anima bla bla. Well i am going to eat a nice, juicy hamburger really soon, and i ll laugh at your face.. Cheer, meat eaters.. If there is one thing I am tired of, then it is this wimpy whining about "ooh nnooes other people are enforcing their opinions on me"-blabla. It's called freedom of speech and it's here to stay, so you better start dealing with it. Truth is, not all opinions are equally valid and it's the purpose of public discourse to seperate the wheat from the chaff. So yes, you can believe whatever you want, but no, you don't have the right to not be called out on it. | ||
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