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On November 11 2010 23:32 QuantumTheory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 23:27 Endorsed wrote:On November 11 2010 23:01 tangwhat wrote:
Yes guys let's question the guy living in Korea and interacting with TL-oGs which has some of the best players in the world. Yeah, what the fuck guys. Protoss isn't underpowered. Marauders aren't overpowered. The sole reason marauders are so strong is to balance out collosus/ht's. They are the tanking unit, marines actually deliver the DPS. But many people seem to forget that. 1 zealot takes 16 marauder shells to kill. 10 zealots with 10 stalkers wins decisively against 20 marauders(with concussive) You just need to get your unit compositions down as a protoss player. I'm sick of whining 'toss player who skip the first zealot and then cry they lose to 2 marauder 1 marine pushes. Rage explosion deflected. In actuality if you add a tiny bit of micro to that battle Marauders come out on top. Does that make your argument null and void? Perhaps, but I'm taking a different approach. How about instead of thinking the reason Toss isn't balanced is because it's T's fault, how about question the design of the race as a whole. Protoss is far too restricted because of the multiple BO losses that can occur.
Even with micro the toss army still wins. The zealots are there just to tank, If i try to shoot the stalkers I will get hit by the zealots, so I have to kite the zealots wich results into getting hit by stalkers. Ofcourse this is without stim, with stim terran wins.
Also, on close positions why do I rarely see protoss player just rally their first zealot to the terrans base. If he goes for a tech lab after a marine(wich you can scout with your probe) you will arrive at the base right when the tech lab finishes, kill the marine and you get 3/4 scv kills for free...
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On November 11 2010 23:35 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 23:32 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 11 2010 23:27 Endorsed wrote:On November 11 2010 23:01 tangwhat wrote:
Yes guys let's question the guy living in Korea and interacting with TL-oGs which has some of the best players in the world. Yeah, what the fuck guys. Protoss isn't underpowered. Marauders aren't overpowered. The sole reason marauders are so strong is to balance out collosus/ht's. They are the tanking unit, marines actually deliver the DPS. But many people seem to forget that. 1 zealot takes 16 marauder shells to kill. 10 zealots with 10 stalkers wins decisively against 20 marauders(with concussive) You just need to get your unit compositions down as a protoss player. I'm sick of whining 'toss player who skip the first zealot and then cry they lose to 2 marauder 1 marine pushes. Rage explosion deflected. In actuality if you add a tiny bit of micro to that battle Marauders come out on top. Does that make your argument null and void? Perhaps, but I'm taking a different approach. How about instead of thinking the reason Toss isn't balanced is because it's T's fault, how about question the design of the race as a whole. Protoss is far too restricted because of the multiple BO losses that can occur. Even with micro the toss army still wins. The zealots are there just to tank, If i try to shoot the stalkers I will get hit by the zealots, so I have to kite the zealots wich results into getting hit by stalkers. Ofcourse this is without stim, with stim terran wins.
Obvious troll is obvious.
You mean to say that this Terran gets 20 Marauders, we're talking 2+ raxes with tech labs.
Excess gas and he wont spend it on stim.
While this Protoss is building z's and s's to counter a terran who he knows isn't getting stim.
Riiiiight....
You just proved everyones argument invalid through the use of theorycrafting.
Welldone sir.
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On November 11 2010 23:27 Endorsed wrote:
. But many people seem to forget that. 1 zealot takes 16 marauder shells to kill
The primary complaint is that in the very early to early game, that Zealot is slowed down and never gets a shot in at all, there is no Colossus backup.
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On November 11 2010 23:27 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 23:01 tangwhat wrote:
Yes guys let's question the guy living in Korea and interacting with TL-oGs which has some of the best players in the world. Yeah, what the fuck guys. Protoss isn't underpowered. Marauders aren't overpowered. The sole reason marauders are so strong is to balance out collosus/ht's. They are the tanking unit, marines actually deliver the DPS. But many people seem to forget that. 1 zealot takes 16 marauder shells to kill. 10 zealots with 10 stalkers wins decisively against 20 marauders(with concussive and micro) You just need to get your unit compositions down as a protoss player. I'm sick of whining 'toss player who skip the first zealot and then cry they lose to 2 marauder 1 marine pushes. With your (observer) how hard can it be to adjust your unit composition? Today I won against this 2100 'toss player who whined about a haevy marine composition. Because of my early pressure(he skipped zealot) I forced him into make 1/2 immortals. Instead of 2 tech lab 1 reactor. I went for 2 reactors(using the one on the starport and get a raven instead) When he expanden I just atacked with 20 marines or so and a few marauders and absolutely destroyed his composition wich included like 3 immortals. Come on man on the replay I saw you seeing those 2 reactors, why continue to produce immortals?
In my opinion toss in fact not underpowered. I'm a toss player. However the problem is rather that in sc2 (perhaps a bit more than in bw) the races are more unique and need really different skill sets. Let's just take the economy. T has overall the economical advantage over the other races just take a look on those income tabs in any replay. So, they can boost their tech path/production number with their relative well-fundedness. Zerg has the good old bw advantage on this area, that they need more hatch to produce anything on their tech tree. Fast switches are possible because of the race's production system design. And here we get to the protoss who has the chronoboost/warpgate mechanics to deal with similar decisions such as different tech path, or react on the build that our opponent does. So in protoss play there are a bit more serious moments of decision making (like in the quote where a bit of a focus issue could ruin an entire army). I think protoss play puts more pressure on the player to deal with the early game, but it's no way balance issue. It's psychological pressure that comes with the service of the cause of Aiur. 
I realized on my self that the usual first mm push normaly comes with times where you always need to have an intensive apm skill coz warping, kiting, forcefielding, focus firing, probe/pylon producing, chronoboosting, perhaps guardian shielding is not easy at the same time. That's what I'd call the defender disadvantage :D and that's a bit of executionwise harder (but possible) for protoss.
Anyway, I found that dealing with marauders (as a scary looking unit) is rather spectaculum and rather fear than any imba. Those blasts are man... those are scary sounding ones compared to the pew-pew fires of the stalkers but when you have zealot to get those blast gw units can really deal with any mm early aggression and you can pick tech after 4wg+forge and exp too. Anyhow it's only about being firm in execution.
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On November 11 2010 23:25 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Link plz, I want to see. Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 23:22 abrasion wrote:On November 11 2010 09:33 nam nam wrote:On November 11 2010 09:28 abrasion wrote:On November 11 2010 00:36 Treehead wrote:On November 11 2010 00:07 abrasion wrote:On November 10 2010 23:07 Wayem wrote:
Yes there is a problem of detection for protoss. But I don't know if an ob obtained in a different way would be the best answer.
PvT: banshees are an issue. Cloack ghosts too but this tends to be end game so let's assume you'll have your robo anyway. So: banshees.
PvZ: you can basically guess what the Z does by poking in front of his entrance. Example: mass spines / speelings = mutas. The problem here is nor detection (you'll tend to get immortals for burrow roaches) nor scouting. You can have an ob end game on top of his base and maphack this wouldn't solve the problem of mass tech switching at all. So: nothing.
PvP: dark templars obviously. But you tend to go robo for colossi anyway. If not, air suxx pvp (phoenix are ridiculous vs colossi) and HT are lol. So if you go for example blink stalkers/chargelots build a forge early/mid game and later get your robo while you get colossi on 2/3 robos with multi bases anyway. So: nothing.
Problem of detection lies mainly in banshees. Why do they need cloack ? Not for much... if it's available as it is, it's kind of "win right now or lose resources" for the terran as all protoss have to go robo. If they don't, they lose, if they do banshees are not more threatening as uncloaked.
Therefore, I don't suggest to remove cloak for banshees from the game (it would be sad) but delay it even more. Just but a fusion core requirement like I think it was during early beta. And here you are. If T rushes it you'll have a much more solid economy. If he gets it late game for expo harassing purposes, you're supposed to have observers (interesting possibilites with scan/snipe) or canons. I can agree with most of this post, detection is a problem for Protoss simply because it forces a tech path AND costs a lot AND takes so long! Terran detection is just a mouseclick away if you have enough energy. Increasing banshee cloak build time and cost would come a huge way to helping. Banshees already take 60 seconds to build. Any longer and they'd be up there with the Colossus. Edit: and actually 2-3 chrono boosts on a Colossus makes the build time on the two roughly equivalent. I don't think build time is the correct avenue for any adjustments to be made. It's not just the unit build time, it's the barracks, factory, starport, lab build times and costs - the Banshee is quick to get to. Regardless, according to another poster in this thread Blizzard are looking at the Banshee. My prediction was correct. Well, if a poster says so... Nice try looking clever, except Blizzards already said they are looking at it. Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 23:25 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 11 2010 23:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On November 11 2010 15:48 .kv wrote:On November 11 2010 15:41 Hellye wrote:On November 11 2010 15:25 Oldboysctv wrote:
i think its mainly because of the queing mechanic that protoss doesnt have. terran can que their units in buildings,as in press 5 aaaaaaa or whatever they want to build same with zerg, then they wait and then the units comes out, for protoss its slightly different, they must go to a spot and then warp in units. now of course this only applies in pro level and the difference is so slight, but makes a difference over a longer game.
also i predict that someone will come along and play protoss completely different then the way it is being played now, kinda like what boxer did your terran and changed the game around for protoss, i feel the protoss ( which is what i play) needs to be used in a different way somehow. i dont have the answer now the apm to pull it off but it just get that feeling like it should play differently. Just like zerg had to play different before the patch?..... I am not saying our units are underpowered, i am saying there is a design flaw in the protoss tech tree and it should be dealth with. And to try to predict something is in my opinion ridiculous, we have to analize what has happen and deal with it. Not hope for a messiah. I like to ask nazgul what he thinks about how protoss is the only one who can flat lose blind opening BO wise without being greedy or anything. Just open anything else other than a robo and one loses to banshee, tries to get observer out first and one loses to thor rush. No way to scout it, you just lose right there. Do we need to play all the first 4min of every game in the same way? The only way genius went that far in gsl was cause nobody was expecting him to open anything else. He lost not cause he played bad, lack of micro or made grave mistakes but he just open non robo->immortal. Is this what we want protoss sc2 to be about? We make all these cool units ( HT, Mothership, Carrier) and we cant use it. ridiculous. I agree with this post 100 and 50 thousand percent!!! lol You can open phoenix, void ray OR dt and still not auto-die to banshee; you can have a robo in time with all these options. Yes, if you all-in with any of these you will auto-die to banshee but - whatever? But coming out ahead? I'd like to see this done.. Yes, you come out ahead/even if you go DT expo with robo vs banshee. Phoenix robo of course comes up a head as you get expo and rape his banshees hard ;/
But heres the thing Jinro. That can be scouted and countered, Protoss has no way of scouting until its already done so it will continue on its merry build, and then it will be countered. Its not safe. Lets take your example as the example.
Terran aim is fast Banshee, Protoss is Stargate Robo. Now all terran has todo is scout the starport with is easy using a delayed reaper, an scv, or a scan if your desperate. Generally an SCV sent to the front while the reaper distracts the stalker at the back allows the scouting of anything.
So the Terran sees the Starport, so all he has todo is stop banshee and techswitch into a Thor rush or anything else it wants to. Even if the starport finishes he does not have to make banshees out of it, could go for some defensive Raven play using PDD.
Whats the Protoss response to the above? Nothing. You can't scout it until you see it or tech to the point of no return. You can eliminate what he is not doing but you still do not know what he is doing, which if you guess wrong it will kill you. Which is why every Protoss plays it safe in order to not die, guessing games are unskilful and degrades the game down to "Rock Paper Scissors" where everyone can see which 1 Protoss picked. A good example of this ofc is the game that knocked NG out of GSL2.
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go fast robo every game that solves problem with scouting (also immortal is awsome to stop early marauder pressure)
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On November 12 2010 00:38 zomgad wrote:
go fast robo every game that solves problem with scouting (also immortal is awsome to stop early marauder pressure)
I hope that people will start to read the thread instead of saying the same thing that has been said like 70 pages ago...
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The point is lifting the restriction of having to go fast robo. Read please
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On November 12 2010 00:34 Chronicle wrote:
But heres the thing Jinro. That can be scouted and countered, Protoss has no way of scouting until its already done so it will continue on its merry build, and then it will be countered. Its not safe. Lets take your example as the example.
Terran aim is fast Banshee, Protoss is Stargate Robo. Now all terran has todo is scout the starport with is easy using a delayed reaper, an scv, or a scan if your desperate. Generally an SCV sent to the front while the reaper distracts the stalker at the back allows the scouting of anything.
So the Terran sees the Starport, so all he has todo is stop banshee and techswitch into a Thor rush or anything else it wants to. Even if the starport finishes he does not have to make banshees out of it, could go for some defensive Raven play using PDD.
Whats the Protoss response to the above? Nothing. You can't scout it until you see it or tech to the point of no return. You can eliminate what he is not doing but you still do not know what he is doing, which if you guess wrong it will kill you. Which is why every Protoss plays it safe in order to not die, guessing games are unskilful and degrades the game down to "Rock Paper Scissors" where everyone can see which 1 Protoss picked. A good example of this ofc is the game that knocked NG out of GSL2.
Jinro is perfectly correct about the slightly delayed robo still providing enough protection against banshees, and your scouting argument doesn't hold up. Just because the Terran player changes builds away from cloaked banshees doesn't make it an autoloss for the Protoss. Furthermore, the first air unit out of a stargate is normally used to scout, so you should have a good idea of what the Terran player is doing fairly early, and your observer shouldn't be too far behind.
Finally, this is certainly not a case of the Protoss being commited to one strategy beyond "the point of no-return". For instance, in the example you gave of the Terran player switching to Thors, the Protoss already has access to both Void Rays and Immortals, and is well situated to counter such a tactic.
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On November 11 2010 23:27 Endorsed wrote:
Yeah, what the fuck guys.
Yeah, what the fuck is right.
Protoss isn't underpowered. Marauders aren't overpowered. The sole reason marauders are so strong is to balance out collosus/ht's. They are the tanking unit, marines actually deliver the DPS. But many people seem to forget that. 1 zealot takes 16 marauder shells to kill. 10 zealots with 10 stalkers wins decisively against 20 marauders(with concussive and micro)
This is an ignorant example. Only an idiot will have 20 marauders out with ONLY concussive shells. 20 marauders requires 2000 minerals, 500 gas, and 600 seconds of build time. Out of 3 rax with tech lab, that's 200 seconds of build time. Stimpack and concussive are also, coincidentally, 200 second of build time - and they can upgrade in parallel, plus they should be getting started after the first and second rax are up, before the third even finishes, and certainly before the tech lab finishes.
Using examples like this just show complete disregard to fact and logical thought to support your argument - not to mention that the example DOESN'T WORK anyways as 20 marauders with concussive WILL beat 10 zealot/10 stalker (2250 minerals, 500 gas, 600 seconds build assuming warp gate first AND *PERFECT* build micro), as even though the stalkers are faster and can shoot the marauders while the marauders shoot the zealots, the slowed zealots will be left in the way of the stalkers causing them to path around, and once they path to the front of the zealots they will be easy picking for the marauders, and if they don't path to the front, they won't continue to get shots off as the marauder 6 range can shoot zealots while the stalker 6 range sits in the back doing nothing.
You just need to get your unit compositions down as a protoss player. I'm sick of whining 'toss player who skip the first zealot and then cry they lose to 2 marauder 1 marine pushes. With your (observer) how hard can it be to adjust your unit composition?
You do not formulate an argument by mentioning a scenario that happens at 5 minutes of game time then comparing it with a tech unit that isn't even AVAILABLE until 6:30 minutes of game time plus an additional 40 seconds of build time.
Now we launch into pointless anecdotal examples that provide absolutely no solid facts:
Today I won against this 2100 'toss player who whined about a haevy marine composition. Because of my early pressure(he skipped zealot) I forced him into make 1/2 immortals. Instead of 2 tech lab 1 reactor. I went for 2 reactors(using the one on the starport and get a raven instead) When he expanden I just atacked with 20 marines or so and a few marauders and absolutely destroyed his composition wich included like 3 immortals. Come on man on the replay I saw you seeing those 2 reactors, why continue to produce immortals?
All this highlights is bad play from an opponent - who cares?
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On November 12 2010 01:12 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 00:34 Chronicle wrote:
But heres the thing Jinro. That can be scouted and countered, Protoss has no way of scouting until its already done so it will continue on its merry build, and then it will be countered. Its not safe. Lets take your example as the example.
Terran aim is fast Banshee, Protoss is Stargate Robo. Now all terran has todo is scout the starport with is easy using a delayed reaper, an scv, or a scan if your desperate. Generally an SCV sent to the front while the reaper distracts the stalker at the back allows the scouting of anything.
So the Terran sees the Starport, so all he has todo is stop banshee and techswitch into a Thor rush or anything else it wants to. Even if the starport finishes he does not have to make banshees out of it, could go for some defensive Raven play using PDD.
Whats the Protoss response to the above? Nothing. You can't scout it until you see it or tech to the point of no return. You can eliminate what he is not doing but you still do not know what he is doing, which if you guess wrong it will kill you. Which is why every Protoss plays it safe in order to not die, guessing games are unskilful and degrades the game down to "Rock Paper Scissors" where everyone can see which 1 Protoss picked. A good example of this ofc is the game that knocked NG out of GSL2.
Jinro is perfectly correct about the slightly delayed robo still providing enough protection against banshees, and your scouting argument doesn't hold up. Just because the Terran player changes builds away from cloaked banshees doesn't make it an autoloss for the Protoss. Furthermore, the first air unit out of a stargate is normally used to scout, so you should have a good idea of what the Terran player is doing fairly early, and your observer shouldn't be too far behind. Finally, this is certainly not a case of the Protoss being commited to one strategy beyond "the point of no-return". For instance, in the example you gave of the Terran player switching to Thors, the Protoss already has access to both Void Rays and Immortals, and is well situated to counter such a tactic.
No it is not, That is the problem, protoss Templar/Stargate tech is inferior to pure robo tech in any and all situations. Again falling back to the NG example if he played it safe like any other Protoss and went for robo for detection he would be "safe" but also behind, as starport >> Robo. However because every single non Robo first path of the protoss is a gamble, its pot luck if you do not die. If protoss has some form of scouting no matter how cost ineffective it is or could be at least NG could of made a forge / cannons intime and defending off the banshees until Observers.
Unless Protoss goes Robo from the outset there is so many things that can and will kill them or at the very least put them at big disadvantage, thats the problem. For a non Robo build to be safe, its pot luck.
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I saw a game at GSL clan wars today. Where protoss opened with 3gates. He marched to terran's ramp right away and contained him while building twilight council and templar archives. The pressure made sure that terran doesn't build banshees. And he placed pylons everywhere to spot dropships, also put cannons in his base. There is literally nothing terran could do.
That game changed my mind about PvT. I think it depends a lot on mind games, maps and luck. But something feels wrong. There is a point in the game when protoss becomes invincible and terran is hopeless. This matchup needs reworking imo.
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I think the game itself is balanced, but there really aren't that many top level players who prefers to play Protoss. At the moment I think the top Protoss would probably be NexGenius and unfortunately he was up against HopeTorture in ro8 of GSL2 and he lost there. Maybe next GSL we will at least see a Toss in the semis. On the other hand Protoss players doesn't seem to be doing too bad outside Korea, quite a few top finishes in MLG and still doing good in Europe.
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On November 12 2010 01:25 bokeevboke wrote:
I saw a game at GSL clan wars today. Where protoss opened with 3gates. He marched to terran's ramp right away and contained him while building twilight council and templar archives. The pressure made sure that terran doesn't build banshees. And he placed pylons everywhere to spot dropships, also put cannons in his base. There is literally nothing terran could do.
That game changed my mind about PvT. I think it depends a lot on mind games, maps and luck. But something feels wrong. There is a point in the game when protoss becomes invincible and terran is hopeless. This matchup needs reworking imo.
Watch final game of NG vs HT in Ro8. Same thing happens but its the Protoss who is helpess. Also in your example the Terran was not helpless, the Terran was inferior. Them drops could of taken out the pylons for free, could of *gasp* not continued doing fail drops! Tons of things wrong.
Hopetorture in the same situation instead of not building banshee continued with his banshee and won because the Protoss has no detection and no-way of knowing that banshees were coming.
NG guessed wrong and lost because he guessed wrong. That is the problem with Protoss, every matchup is a guessing game.
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GSL 3 could have shitty Protoss showings, same with 4 and 5 and 6. It won't matter because they're actually overpowered. So let's just talk about our feelings, since that's what actually matters, not the growing evidence of tournament results or ladder rankings. Protoss have it so easy right now, why don't you guys get it?
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On November 12 2010 01:31 Chronicle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 01:25 bokeevboke wrote:
I saw a game at GSL clan wars today. Where protoss opened with 3gates. He marched to terran's ramp right away and contained him while building twilight council and templar archives. The pressure made sure that terran doesn't build banshees. And he placed pylons everywhere to spot dropships, also put cannons in his base. There is literally nothing terran could do.
That game changed my mind about PvT. I think it depends a lot on mind games, maps and luck. But something feels wrong. There is a point in the game when protoss becomes invincible and terran is hopeless. This matchup needs reworking imo. Watch final game of NG vs HT in Ro8. Same thing happens but its the Protoss who is helpess. Also in your example the Terran was not helpless, the Terran was inferior. Them drops could of taken out the pylons for free, could of *gasp* not continued doing fail drops! Tons of things wrong. Hopetorture in the same situation instead of not building banshee continued with his banshee and won because the Protoss has no detection and no-way of knowing that banshees were coming. NG guessed wrong and lost because he guessed wrong. That is the problem with Protoss, every matchup is a guessing game.
In spectator viewpoint I could say that I don't like this matchup at all. It always feels that outcome of the game depends on luck rather than skill of players. For example: HuK wins a top terran 4-0 in convincing manner. Then you say wow his PvT is great, but the next day he will be crashed by another terran in same manner.
As Liquid'Drone has stated long long time ago, there is no static defense in SC2 (except terrans to some extent). Thats the major problem, you can't do strategic choices much. It became a race of 'who's gonna get more supply'.
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On November 12 2010 01:12 Jumbled wrote:Jinro is perfectly correct about the slightly delayed robo still providing enough protection against banshees, and your scouting argument doesn't hold up. Just because the Terran player changes builds away from cloaked banshees doesn't make it an autoloss for the Protoss. Furthermore, the first air unit out of a stargate is normally used to scout, so you should have a good idea of what the Terran player is doing fairly early, and your observer shouldn't be too far behind.
Finally, this is certainly not a case of the Protoss being commited to one strategy beyond "the point of no-return". For instance, in the example you gave of the Terran player switching to Thors, the Protoss already has access to both Void Rays and Immortals, and is well situated to counter such a tactic.
No, this is not correct.
Sure, you can throw down a Stargate and then throw down a Robo, build an obs first and have it ready for the banshee.
The timings DO NOT allow you to throw down a Stargate, spend 150/100 or 250/150 on a unit, produce that unit, and still throw down a Robo and get an obs out. The banshee will arrive at your base before that on anything but the longest positions (e.g. cross metal), and in the 15 seconds or so the timings delay your obs from getting out, you will lose a third of your workers.
The only way to get a fast Stargate, build a unit out of it (otherwise why are you building a Stargate first at all? To waste money?), and then still get the obs out in time to stop fast banshee is to sacrifice core units (particularly the Stalker) in order to have enough gas. In that case, you're vulnerable to any early ground push.
And this is where the problem comes full circle: you can't scout if they're doing early banshee or if they're doing a ground push, aside from the obvious mistake of them having everything in view of their ramp. This scouting issue is exactly why we call for a change at all.
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To every zerg and terran player shouting 'Protoss is fine!', look at the overall goddamn GAME DESIGN!
Zerg have the larvae mechanic, which allows them to adapt instantly to any situation.
Terran have incredible scouting, mining and harass possibilities.
But now let's look at what was supposed to be a KEY mechanic of protoss; CHRONOBOOST. Chronoboost is the reason that Blizzard decided to:
(a) seperate tech paths, as a way of increasing time-to-tech
(b) increasing tech costs, as a way of increasing time-to-tech
(c) increasing tech times, as a way of... well you get the point by now.
What would prompt Blizzard to do (a), (b), and (c)?
The answer, you guessed it!
Chronoboost.
Chronoboost has been the BANE of protoss, because Blizzard seems to try to account for it in the design of ALL TOSS TECH PATHS. They seem to conveniently forget that protoss doesn't have unlimited chronoboost.
But that doesnt matter, because chronoboost COULD be used on a particular build for e.g. Dark Templars, or Colossi, or High Templars, or Void rays. So they have to account for it.. by using (a), (b) and (c).
The result though, is that protoss have to use chronoboost simply to keep UP with every other race's NORMAL tech times!!
There's an earlier post by someone who did the tech time math. In any case, what I'm saying is that - every other race's key mechanic wasn't 'accounted' for when they designed their tech paths/builds etc, because that's what a race-specific mechanic is supposed to be, race-specific, and its supposed to give the race an exclusive advantage.
But chronoboost scared the shit out of David Kim. And that's the story of how it became chrono-catchup.
Please blizzard, give us our MECHANIC BACK!!
2c.
(On extra thought, chronoboost is really then ANOTHER micro exercise for protoss with almost no added benefit except MAYBE probe building time).
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Dominican Republic463 Posts
I was pondering if chronoboost could be appled to buildings warping in, to make them faster, but at like a 1/4 or 1/3 of the regular boost AND the building must require gas to be able to do it on it, to prevent early zeal cheese. That could solve some woes in going something other than robo, we could chrono a robo in to save us from banshees in a quick spot. Or make DT's viable harrass. Idk my mind is wild :o
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On November 12 2010 02:22 SwaY- wrote:
I was pondering if chronoboost could be appled to buildings warping in, to make them faster, but at like a 1/4 or 1/3 of the regular boost AND the building must require gas to be able to do it on it, to prevent early zeal cheese. That could solve some woes in going something other than robo, we could chrono a robo in to save us from banshees in a quick spot. Or make DT's viable harrass. Idk my mind is wild :o
No it won't help.
The whole mechanic of chrono boost is wrong, like the post above me explained.
If the intention of chrono boost is to make stuff come faster, than it should do that. What it actually does is it makes stuff come at the time it should come. The problem is you can't have infinite chrono boost. No boost but normal tech times / costs would be a lot better.
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EPT
