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[D] Why is protoss doing so bad in the GSL? - Page 11

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Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:38:39
November 01 2010 21:37 GMT
#201
People who keep bringing up Genius winning Blizzcon should remember that the only other Korean player there was MakaPrime. If players like ITR, FruitDealer, Ensnare, Nada, Boxer, etc had played it would have been a way different tournament.
.ImpacT.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States390 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:38:39
November 01 2010 21:38 GMT
#202
It's because protoss lacks variance, but is relatively easy to learn to play (4warpgate) that it's the "most played race". Remember, only like 8% of the Sc2 players are in Diamond.

Hell, I was a 2080 protoss till about 4 days ago when I quit laddering - waiting till the next ladder season then switching to Terran. Protoss isn't fun to watch, or fun to play - no harass, no options. :'(
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:38:47
November 01 2010 21:38 GMT
#203
I think I know the reason.

Ladies and gentlemen: Terran
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
November 01 2010 21:42 GMT
#204
It has been established that in TvP Terran is stronger early/mid-game and Protoss is stronger late-game. The problem is that at the tip top lvl (GSL) Terrans exploit this advance so much that they pull out early wins so the late-game advantage of Protoss never shows up, or they damage the Protoss in such a way early/mid-game that they have an advantage in the late-game anyway.
Varth
Profile Joined August 2010
United States426 Posts
November 01 2010 21:44 GMT
#205
Protoss is stale, and quite frankly gets too boring to play much at a high level, every game I think to myself, hmmm wonder what im going to do, oh wait theres only 3-4 strategies available, and NONE OF THEM involve harassment. One more protoss nerf that doesn't have a buff to another protoss unit and I'm going to zerg, if only for the entertainment value of playing them.
MK4512
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada938 Posts
November 01 2010 21:44 GMT
#206
Well, I just dont think that protoss's are using all of the units to their advantage, especially in the
*spoiler*
hopetorture vs. genius game, I think that genius would have benefited from charge alot, but if he had gone High Templars with some FoxeR style spread, he would've had the game on meta in the bag

I'm a protoss btw
Chill: "Please let us know when you will be streaming yourself eating a hat so I can put it on the calendar. Thanks."
lowercase
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1047 Posts
November 01 2010 21:44 GMT
#207
True, 99% of the QQing here is versus Terran, not zerg. Gateway units are quite well balanced versus tier one zerg units. The solution here is not another terran nerf, but a protoss buff.

Toss has too many useless units too: DTs, carriers, motherships, and archons are entirely useless. Immortals are ALMOST useless, but their worst feature is interfering with your production of observers and collossi. Also, as "damage sponges" they are awful, because they're slower than your other units and are always at the back.
That is not dead which can eternal lie...
Huko
Profile Joined April 2010
United States324 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:47:03
November 01 2010 21:45 GMT
#208
All the luck of the draw, some people got better paths to the Ro4 than others, so just coincidental I guess that protoss are out.

I also think Terran is dominant against Protosse, I think they should do something with Warp Prisms to make them actually viable.
_Darwin_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2374 Posts
November 01 2010 21:51 GMT
#209
On November 02 2010 06:44 lowercase wrote:
True, 99% of the QQing here is versus Terran, not zerg. Gateway units are quite well balanced versus tier one zerg units. The solution here is not another terran nerf, but a protoss buff.

Toss has too many useless units too: DTs, carriers, motherships, and archons are entirely useless. Immortals are ALMOST useless, but their worst feature is interfering with your production of observers and collossi. Also, as "damage sponges" they are awful, because they're slower than your other units and are always at the back.


DTs aren't useless. Ask Artosis. Or watch the gsl. Archons aren't useless either. And there is a way to fix immortals being in the back of your army... micro.
I cant stop lactating
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:53:02
November 01 2010 21:52 GMT
#210
On November 02 2010 06:45 Huko wrote:
All the luck of the draw, some people got better paths to the Ro4 than others, so just coincidental I guess that protoss are out.

I also think Terran is dominant against Protosse, I think they should do something with Warp Prisms to make them actually viable.



Warp prisms are pretty tough to balance I think. I don't think you could buff their HP without them being too strong. Maybe make them a bit faster.

I wouldn't mind the fleet beacon being cheaper, but I also don't want to see motherships be too become a viable unit unless you are much better then your opponent ever. I don't like the super unit idea. I don't think late game is the problem though so I dunno probably wouldn't be best fix.
#1 Kwanro Fan
slam
Profile Joined May 2010
United States923 Posts
November 01 2010 21:52 GMT
#211
On November 02 2010 06:38 .ImpacT. wrote: Remember, only like 8% of the Sc2 players are in Diamond.


I thought it was split evenly 20% in all divisions?

I remember hearing that in something from blizzcon I think. Am I wrong?
I get it.
toadstool
Profile Joined May 2006
Australia421 Posts
November 01 2010 21:53 GMT
#212
To the people saying that Protoss players aren't good enough, that's just blatantly wrong. Does it mean that better players just naturally pick Terran as their race?

The problem lies with the amount of skill required to play Protoss at the very top level, especially in the Korean scene where they practice particular builds just on this one map. For a Protoss to play at a top level takes a lot more skill and larger luck factor than for a Zerg or Terran.
NEWB?!
smallerk
Profile Joined October 2010
897 Posts
November 01 2010 21:53 GMT
#213
Protoss just needs to learn how to use the Nydus worm.
Never Regret anything because at one time it was exactly what you wanted.
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
November 01 2010 21:53 GMT
#214
On November 02 2010 06:52 slam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2010 06:38 .ImpacT. wrote: Remember, only like 8% of the Sc2 players are in Diamond.


I thought it was split evenly 20% in all divisions?

I remember hearing that in something from blizzcon I think. Am I wrong?



It's about 8%.
#1 Kwanro Fan
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:54:23
November 01 2010 21:54 GMT
#215
On November 02 2010 06:52 slam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2010 06:38 .ImpacT. wrote: Remember, only like 8% of the Sc2 players are in Diamond.


I thought it was split evenly 20% in all divisions?

I remember hearing that in something from blizzcon I think. Am I wrong?


http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
slam
Profile Joined May 2010
United States923 Posts
November 01 2010 21:55 GMT
#216
My mistake.
I get it.
cameronkrazie86
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States296 Posts
November 01 2010 21:57 GMT
#217
A terran that knows how to use EMP effectively is incredibly hard to beat. It takes the high templars almost out of the equation since they have 10 range and psi storm has 9. Then the Terran has the medivac which can't be hit with feedback since the templars have no energy. So now all the shields are down, and I suddenly have no chance whatsoever at surviving against the MMM. If they happen to throw in a few Thors on top of that, I'm screwed.

Then again, I'm just a crappy high gold player so maybe I should just get better. But man, I hate EMP and healing so much, they dominate me every game.

I have no problems playing against zerg provided I attack before they get enough mutas.
"You come at the King, you best not miss." - Omar Little
Vz0
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada378 Posts
November 01 2010 22:02 GMT
#218
On November 02 2010 06:01 Daray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2010 05:50 mols0n wrote:
Seriously how the fuck are you guys so bad? I play Terran(1400 diamond) and switched to Protoss for like 20 games, lost 7 of my first 10 then won 11 out of 3 and destroyed terrans. Seriously that race is a joke to play, 1 gate fast expo sentries, into 4 gate 2 robo collosi = gg. l2p


You should give HuK, Genius etc some tips how to play.

your a fucking 1400 diamond.
the people you play barely now how to macro late game.

Im 1200 with zerg and i only played it for a few weeks (its my friends account). serously get to something like 1600 1700 before you actually face people that know what they are doing.
griff
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands26 Posts
November 01 2010 22:04 GMT
#219
There was a really nice post before that sums up a lot of the problems but I want to add a small note.

Speed of the protoss army:
Zealots (before upgrade)/sentries/immortals/colos are all very slow.
This, imo, partially leads to the passive play of protoss players in the early game.

If you ever engage in the wrong position and want to run.. well you've just lost all your stuff or at least the majority of your stuff. This is even worse when you add concussive shells into the picture.
When I fight a terran I'm so freaking jealous when they just run away with stim when it isn't going how they like (I hear you say force field, but it's not realistic/possible to always force field a fleeing army).

When you get zealot speed your army can get split up as well, when you chase some units and your zealots charge after them while your other units are lagging behind.
Not to mention chargelots do like 1 attack after the charge and then all start messing up each other's paths when chasing.

The speed issue also has impact on warp prism play.
Let's say you drop 4 zealots (no charge), you probably kill 3/4 workers and then they run away.
Now your zealots will start chasing units but will never catch up.
Drop some marines with stim (you already have the medivac to heal) and your opponent is in some serious trouble.
Run in with zerglings and your workers can never run away.
If you drop stalkers, well hf shooting 4+ times for 1 worker kill.
Dropping a colo is a huge risk and is also not that awesome dmg wise.
Dropping HT, pretty damn cool but this is really really late game material.
WickedBit
Profile Joined August 2010
United States343 Posts
November 01 2010 22:06 GMT
#220
On November 02 2010 06:51 _Darwin_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2010 06:44 lowercase wrote:
True, 99% of the QQing here is versus Terran, not zerg. Gateway units are quite well balanced versus tier one zerg units. The solution here is not another terran nerf, but a protoss buff.

Toss has too many useless units too: DTs, carriers, motherships, and archons are entirely useless. Immortals are ALMOST useless, but their worst feature is interfering with your production of observers and collossi. Also, as "damage sponges" they are awful, because they're slower than your other units and are always at the back.


DTs aren't useless. Ask Artosis. Or watch the gsl. Archons aren't useless either. And there is a way to fix immortals being in the back of your army... micro.


All Protoss units are good and not useless. The only problem is that those units are situational and only useful till the other races have opened all their techs.. Also the cost of teching to one of these makes these strategies kinda all-inish.
For example if a terran goes cloaked banshee he is well off since going that route has opened all other tech routes for him and if that attack fails he can just switch around the tech lab and start producing seige tanks or something else. Terran also gets bunkers to defend in case of failed tech attempts.
In case of zerg all techs are a building away.
Protoss is the only case where if you try something and it succeeds then you win spectacularly and if it fails you lose spectacularly. Its kinda rock paper scissorish.
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