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[H] TvP: How do I counter High Templars? - Page 4

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japro
Profile Joined August 2010
172 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 22:22:34
September 23 2010 22:21 GMT
#61
If it were as easy as "just get ghosts" then no one would use HTs. At least my micro isn't good enought to emp them 100% before some storms hit. Also good players don't clump up their HT so you can emp all of them easily. I like to harass HTs with banshees (just dont forget to emp them first or cloak/decloak until their energy is gone) and try to force fights in open areas where i can move my units out of storms fast enought. Trying to force up ramps and through chokes against storms is obviously suicide. When games went really long I also had success with a whole squad of ghosts (4+) moving around cloaked and scanning for observers. Then you can just kill HTs and observers since they are both light and focus on emping actual fighting units.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 22:27:23
September 23 2010 22:24 GMT
#62
I don't think HuK is an amazing PvT player.. He's great PvP and PvZ, but not so much in PvT. I think KiWiKaKi is good, as I already mentioned before. Tester & NEXGenious from Korea are both amazingly good. BTW I also think MakaPrime played bad against NEXGenius on LT. He had 3 base while Protoss had 2 (with a hidden expansion before his natural!) and lost because he either had vikings or medivacs, but never both.

Not saying Maka is a bad player , because he's absolutely not, but that game he just didnt play to his full potential.

Back to HuK, who I really like and who I think is a great and solid player, but he's not exactly a PvT specialist to be honest. I've never played against SeleCt so I can't judge about him and I also play either fast expo or 3 rax pressure builds to be ahead and screw Protoss early game, but sometimes 1 mistake costs you the games, yes, even as Terran.

On September 24 2010 06:58 -StrifeX- wrote:
I don't see naurto placing too high in tournaments. I would say that HuK, Morrow, Idra, Dimaga, Demuslism, and other gamers that you guys watch replays of, is probably better to learn from or find out things from.


Yes, I don't place really high at lots of tourneys. I'm plainly worse than MorroW, IdrA, DIMAGA or DemusliM, but those are one of the best players in the world. HuK does well too, but last tourney I beat him to meet MorroW in the finals. I also have lots of top 4 results or top 8 in cups. And sometimes I have to WORK because some people forget that not all of us play as full time pros


Edit: I met HuK also in person and have him on my friendlist so.. if you read this HuK, its not talking shit about you, just my opinion and no hate ;O! I also think US Terrans are not as good as EU Terrans.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
inGen.
Profile Joined September 2010
United States6 Posts
September 23 2010 22:28 GMT
#63
What I think you should do is get ghosts and banshees. Make sure the unit hp/energy indicators are on, and use the Banshee to snipe the HT's in combo with emp. It would also be useful to have mech. Although I dont know how reasonable this would be considering this might be alot of gas? I wouldn't know though, I play toss. :p
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
September 23 2010 22:30 GMT
#64
Basically, everyone not in the US thinks they're better than the US. But that's pretty much true about everything.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
September 23 2010 22:34 GMT
#65
On September 24 2010 07:30 whoopadeedoo wrote:
Basically, everyone not in the US thinks they're better than the US. But that's pretty much true about everything.


I never said US is like completely shit or anything. I just think the Terrans and Protoss are slightly better, with some exceptions. You act like I'm saying the whole US server is terrible.. :x
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
September 23 2010 22:41 GMT
#66
You have a nasty habit of changing your positions within this thread alone. Previously, you said EU toss players were "A LOT" better. Now it's slightly?
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 22:46:33
September 23 2010 22:45 GMT
#67
On September 24 2010 07:41 whoopadeedoo wrote:
You have a nasty habit of changing your positions within this thread alone. Previously, you said EU toss players were "A LOT" better. Now it's slightly?


You really weigh my words.. don't you?-_-
Well I'm out of here, just tried to help OP and explain the problems he could encounter, but everyone in here knows better :-)
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
September 23 2010 22:49 GMT
#68
I'm not a mind-reader. If you fail to express yourself properly, don't blame the reader. If I said EU players are A LOT worse than KR players, are you suppose to imply I only meant "slightly worse?"
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
September 23 2010 22:51 GMT
#69
BTW, you didn't really help the OP at all. All you did was 1. drop names, 2. QQ about Protoss being OP against your Terran, 3. Say EMP is not the solution (while not offering a solution) and 4. say EU is better than US.
Rabbitmaster
Profile Joined August 2010
1357 Posts
September 23 2010 22:52 GMT
#70
On September 24 2010 07:04 Mrbustanut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 06:59 olias wrote:
Woa now MayorITC,

You are sadly sadly mistaken if you think the second world war was the US vs europe. That is tragic if it is the level of education in America. EU tech was superior for most of the war as well...


EU went with a one gas build in WWII though so they were not able to tech as hard as America. Additionally with the map imba of being protected by the ocean America was able to fast expand and win the macro war by being able to produce more units.


Didn't germany have like vastly superior tech to other countries for most of WWII? Atleast they had the longest range rockets, the first jet fighter planes etc etc.
God is dead.
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
September 23 2010 22:53 GMT
#71
On September 24 2010 07:52 Rabbitmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 07:04 Mrbustanut wrote:
On September 24 2010 06:59 olias wrote:
Woa now MayorITC,

You are sadly sadly mistaken if you think the second world war was the US vs europe. That is tragic if it is the level of education in America. EU tech was superior for most of the war as well...


EU went with a one gas build in WWII though so they were not able to tech as hard as America. Additionally with the map imba of being protected by the ocean America was able to fast expand and win the macro war by being able to produce more units.


Didn't germany have like vastly superior tech to other countries for most of WWII? Atleast they had the longest range rockets, the first jet fighter planes etc etc.


The truth of the matter is the US cheesed their way to victory.
Rabbitmaster
Profile Joined August 2010
1357 Posts
September 23 2010 22:55 GMT
#72
On September 24 2010 07:53 whoopadeedoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 07:52 Rabbitmaster wrote:
On September 24 2010 07:04 Mrbustanut wrote:
On September 24 2010 06:59 olias wrote:
Woa now MayorITC,

You are sadly sadly mistaken if you think the second world war was the US vs europe. That is tragic if it is the level of education in America. EU tech was superior for most of the war as well...


EU went with a one gas build in WWII though so they were not able to tech as hard as America. Additionally with the map imba of being protected by the ocean America was able to fast expand and win the macro war by being able to produce more units.


Didn't germany have like vastly superior tech to other countries for most of WWII? Atleast they had the longest range rockets, the first jet fighter planes etc etc.


The truth of the matter is the US cheesed their way to victory.


Indeed.
God is dead.
Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
September 23 2010 22:56 GMT
#73
To answer the OP, I think ghosts are the best option but they aren't really a hard counter. As has been said before, if they're already blanket storming you, it's a little late to emp. I think whoever has the initiative and better micro will come out on top of those large engagements. Just try to be diligent about killing observors and do lots of little drops. Try to control the towers and have some good map control, and I like to scan his army before I attack so I know where the Templar are.

The thread kind of turned to flaming over pro level games, but at your level (I'm around there too) better micro and map awareness will go a long way.

Oh, and never build thors in tvp
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
September 23 2010 22:56 GMT
#74
I used to think that terran was op and zerg up, before i saw gsl´s matches ...
now i think zerg was up (dunno about now post-patch) and western protoss are up or koreans p (and t too) are op ...
Cashout
Profile Joined May 2010
115 Posts
September 23 2010 22:56 GMT
#75
On September 24 2010 07:53 whoopadeedoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 07:52 Rabbitmaster wrote:
On September 24 2010 07:04 Mrbustanut wrote:
On September 24 2010 06:59 olias wrote:
Woa now MayorITC,

You are sadly sadly mistaken if you think the second world war was the US vs europe. That is tragic if it is the level of education in America. EU tech was superior for most of the war as well...


EU went with a one gas build in WWII though so they were not able to tech as hard as America. Additionally with the map imba of being protected by the ocean America was able to fast expand and win the macro war by being able to produce more units.


Didn't germany have like vastly superior tech to other countries for most of WWII? Atleast they had the longest range rockets, the first jet fighter planes etc etc.


The truth of the matter is the US cheesed their way to victory.

NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
September 23 2010 22:58 GMT
#76
I think cloak ghosts are the solution, but the solution is not "Build Ghost, EMP, win" because a good Protoss will split Templars. If you lack skill or speed to properly put your army in position, don't blame Terran.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Mrbustanut
Profile Joined May 2010
121 Posts
September 23 2010 22:59 GMT
#77
On September 24 2010 07:52 Rabbitmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 07:04 Mrbustanut wrote:
On September 24 2010 06:59 olias wrote:
Woa now MayorITC,

You are sadly sadly mistaken if you think the second world war was the US vs europe. That is tragic if it is the level of education in America. EU tech was superior for most of the war as well...


EU went with a one gas build in WWII though so they were not able to tech as hard as America. Additionally with the map imba of being protected by the ocean America was able to fast expand and win the macro war by being able to produce more units.


Didn't germany have like vastly superior tech to other countries for most of WWII? Atleast they had the longest range rockets, the first jet fighter planes etc etc.


Well Germany started the game much earlier and had already built up their tech. The US was behind in the food count at the start and had to play catchup.

Japan tried to cheese the US at pearl but could not sustain the attack and eventually had to GG from the multiple nuclear launches detected events.
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
September 23 2010 23:06 GMT
#78
On September 24 2010 07:59 Mrbustanut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 07:52 Rabbitmaster wrote:
On September 24 2010 07:04 Mrbustanut wrote:
On September 24 2010 06:59 olias wrote:
Woa now MayorITC,

You are sadly sadly mistaken if you think the second world war was the US vs europe. That is tragic if it is the level of education in America. EU tech was superior for most of the war as well...


EU went with a one gas build in WWII though so they were not able to tech as hard as America. Additionally with the map imba of being protected by the ocean America was able to fast expand and win the macro war by being able to produce more units.


Didn't germany have like vastly superior tech to other countries for most of WWII? Atleast they had the longest range rockets, the first jet fighter planes etc etc.


Well Germany started the game much earlier and had already built up their tech. The US was behind in the food count at the start and had to play catchup.

Japan tried to cheese the US at pearl but could not sustain the attack and eventually had to GG from the multiple nuclear launches detected events.


This is the first time I ever loled @ tl forum ...
thanks
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
September 23 2010 23:19 GMT
#79
Its been awhile since ive seen a bunch of probes, scv's, and drones argue with a higher posting veteran. Didnt side with anyone in particular till I looked at the newer players join date. Its almost as bad as reading the battle.net forums, where 1 or 2 good players get overwhelmed by a swarm of Command and Conquer champions.
But Naruto has a point. It can be difficult to EMP all the temps against a competant toss player. Usually, a good protoss will be very careful with his temps.
@ the person who said storm had 5 range, its actually 9.

So, its not that protoss has some imbal power over terran, but its just difficult. Does anyone else think its lame that emp is on the ghost? IMO it should be on the raven, and hunter seeker missile should be on the ghost. Sorry to derail.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
September 23 2010 23:28 GMT
#80
On September 24 2010 08:19 DyEnasTy wrote:
Its been awhile since ive seen a bunch of probes, scv's, and drones argue with a higher posting veteran. Didnt side with anyone in particular till I looked at the newer players join date. Its almost as bad as reading the battle.net forums, where 1 or 2 good players get overwhelmed by a swarm of Command and Conquer champions.
But Naruto has a point. It can be difficult to EMP all the temps against a competant toss player. Usually, a good protoss will be very careful with his temps.
@ the person who said storm had 5 range, its actually 9.

So, its not that protoss has some imbal power over terran, but its just difficult. Does anyone else think its lame that emp is on the ghost? IMO it should be on the raven, and hunter seeker missile should be on the ghost. Sorry to derail.


Psi storms range was 9 in BW. It started out in SC2 the same but was seriously nerfed (including the AoE radius and damage assignment ... it was very OP in early beta). It's not 9 anymore AFAIK (and from experience with it), and I think I'm right in that it's now 6, but maybe it's 5.

At no time did I question Naruto's skill, although at 1500pt diamond, he's not really a top pro, no offense intended (there are a bunch of non-pros here above that). It's what he says that are highly dubious (to put it kindly). Don't fall for the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (his authority, btw, is highly suspect ... saying you live and play with a top pro does not make you a top pro).
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