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The problem with Zerg control - Page 4

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Stirlitz
Profile Joined September 2010
Greece28 Posts
September 16 2010 19:58 GMT
#61
Someone in the Starcraft2forum.org suggested that Atlasmech suggests his ideas on these forums, before banning him 3-4 times in a row

If you want some more taste about this before closing the thread{which is bound to happen, there's also a bet on the starcraft2forum.org on how long you'll keep it before banning ) check these links below :


http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20330

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21060

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20844

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20741

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20695

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20422

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13180

I can go on but I believe these are overwhelming enough.
Gl
NukeTheBunnys
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1004 Posts
September 16 2010 20:07 GMT
#62
wow after looking at that site for 5 seconds, after which I cannot stop my eyes from bleeding, I completely understand why TL doesn't allow image memes and images in sigs. Shit was impossible to read
When you play the game of drones you win or you die.
Toadily
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States837 Posts
September 16 2010 20:19 GMT
#63
This OP is sooooo incoherent, I'm surprised so many people even understood what he was even trying to say...
FREEloss_ca
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada603 Posts
September 16 2010 20:33 GMT
#64
OP sounds like my good IRL friend who has psychosis....
"Starcraft...It just echos brilliance and manliness." - Tasteless
-Frog-
Profile Joined February 2009
United States514 Posts
September 16 2010 20:34 GMT
#65
What it comes down to is that even though your OP is clearly thought out and articulate it doesn't solve any real issue with the game. It would be interesting and would add something "unique" to the zerg race, I suppose, but it would also be completely unnecessary.

There's no point changing something simply for the sake of changing it. Think about it, a simple change has cascading effects from the beginning to the end of a game in every match up. Why change the way that Z builds supply when many people agree that there are other - more important - issues that need to be addressed with the race. (Such as their inability to scout and the fact that the maps are very small, etc).

It seems like you thought of an idea that may be cool and then looked for reasons why it could be useful. Instead of trying to solve a balance issue by examining the facts and then coming up with the extra supply as a solution. That's just poor reasoning.
powered by coffee, driven by hate.
Askesis
Profile Joined September 2010
216 Posts
September 16 2010 20:41 GMT
#66
"We either give the ideas some potential, or we don't. If not, then don't respond "

lmao at OP, telling us to agree with him or not to post at all.

Your idea is just BAD.

1) Zerg needs just one spawning pool to build UNLIMITED* number of zerglings. Terran and Protoss's production capabilities are limited to the number per unit producing structures

2) Supply depots let you wall easily (advantage early game), pylons are required to power buildings (disadvantage), Overlords let you scout your opponent's base, transport units, spread creep, detect invisible units, infiltrate your opponents army without him knowing, hold vision of a large portion of the map, and contaminate buildings. Oh, and Zerg supply is MOBILE. Even though slow without the speed upgrade, it's faster than supply depots or pylons can move

The fact that you would even consider giving the spawning pool 16 food shows your complete lack of understanding of what you are actually proposing, so I will not spend more time responding.

If you are worried about your spawning pool dieing and preventing you from making lings.....build another one?

Zerg has some problems, but this is absolutely 100% NOT one of them.

* Unlimited in respect to lings per pool. Of course still limited by other factors such as money, supply, larva, etc)
OPSavioR
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1465 Posts
September 16 2010 20:45 GMT
#67
holyfuck this is long...
i dunno lol
Zergxy
Profile Joined September 2010
Mexico25 Posts
September 16 2010 20:46 GMT
#68
Totally agree with most ppl, this is a terrible idea and it's waaaay to LATE to implement this.

Zerg, Protoss, and Terran are supposed to be different, if you don't like Zerg macro, just go play another race.

Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6052 Posts
September 16 2010 21:42 GMT
#69
I really don't understand what your "fixing" with this idea, I mean is there REALLY an issue with supply? or are you complaining that you don't have enough larvae? (sure it takes a larvae to make an Overlord, but that's pretty small)

I've played around with all the races and the opening game feels very similar for each one, in fact when I play zerg I find that if I get a queen right after pool then I'm usually not even able to spend all the larvae from injections after the 2nd or 3rd one (assuming I spend all energy on injections, none for creep). Granted I'm not very practiced with zerg and I pool a little early (13 gas, 13 pool is typically what I do).

That video is really bad as well, it's just 14 min of a guy QQing about how each zerg unit is flawed and it doesn't even make sense all that much, "Infester is too Big" wtf?

I'd read more of your opening post, but it's just too big, and the first few paragraphs jumped into this "fix" without really explaining where its coming from. Sure you compare to the other races supply/building cost w/e, but seeing as how the races are supposed to operate differently it's a moot point. Besides, it's not like zerg is ever really behind on supply thanks to other races, in fact thanks to the larvae mechanic Zerg is able to outproduce the other races soooo well as they can be morphing in 14 units at one time off 2 Hatch.

People need to learn the game better before you try and say it's broken after a month and a half, and try to make drastic changes like this.
I can take that responsibility.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
September 16 2010 21:47 GMT
#70
Pool giving food would mean you could go 7 pool every game, do a ton of damage, and be fine economically.

Basically it would make Zerg the new Terran.
Competent
Profile Joined April 2010
United States406 Posts
September 16 2010 21:48 GMT
#71
I think every unit should have stim, slow, siege mode, fly, burrow, HSM, PDD, blink, charge, and mortal strike.

Come on people would this game REALLY be what it is if it was apples to apples.
Nurrrhhh, I'm gonna be A+ by Wendsday! -Day[9] "I'm going to spread out my lings so it looks like there is more. Lots of animals do that." -CatZ
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 16 2010 21:53 GMT
#72
My last question wasn't answered, and then some more people asked similarly - we can't find the reasons that motivate this suggestion? I'm not saying whether the suggestion would work well or not - this could be tested in a UMS map. But I don't see what motivated it, what is the problem with the current Zerg supply system, which is being solved here? The OP apart from formatting is well written, the suggestion is worth thinking about, but why is it needed?
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Antiochus
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada548 Posts
September 16 2010 22:23 GMT
#73
On September 17 2010 04:58 Stirlitz wrote:
Someone in the Starcraft2forum.org suggested that Atlasmech suggests his ideas on these forums, before banning him 3-4 times in a row

If you want some more taste about this before closing the thread{which is bound to happen, there's also a bet on the starcraft2forum.org on how long you'll keep it before banning ) check these links below :


http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20330

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21060

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20844

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20741

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20695

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20422

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13180

I can go on but I believe these are overwhelming enough.
Gl


For those to lazy to click on the links here is my favorite quote.

Atlasmech2:
Incase you didn't know, I was banned from the blizzard forums for making absurd complaints about zerg. Now I am banned from these forums for doing the same.
But if you know something is wrong with an obtusely designed race (Zerg) it becomes hard to put your finger on what exactly that problem is.


I will be moving on now to the TeamLiquid Forums, but I am currently under a 3 day trial period before I can post a thread, this is what I will be posting there.

He's like a vagrant theorycrafter moving from site to site as he gets banned.

All play and no work makes Jack unemployed.
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
September 16 2010 22:31 GMT
#74
thing is.... the "depots/pylons" of zerg (and im saying this from an 1100 diamond zerg perspective) is that once you get speed... they're mostly worth the cost b/c they can just fly over and get the 2nd easiest scout in the game (cost/vision wise... first being phoenix)

and like someone else said... the game is a bit too far after release to make a change like this
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
ZomgTossRush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1041 Posts
September 16 2010 22:33 GMT
#75
Go easy on this guy, he obviously knows something we(the lesser community) and them(top level players) haven't figured out. I am sure if he worked for blizzard, the game would be so balanced you would see 33.3% race distribution at all levels in every region.

Don't let the fact he has been roflbanned from every respectable sc2 discussion he has ever tried to start. He is like the godfather of sc2 balance, hear him out.
Coaching for 1v1 and Team games at Gosucoaching.com
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
September 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#76
i want 5 min of my life back reading this thread
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
September 17 2010 01:47 GMT
#77
Hatches give 2 food. 2 food because of two reasons:

1) It costs 350 mins, which is a bit less than a CC and Nexus.
2) 2 food = 1 Queen.

Spawning pools have a unique role, they unlock Zergling Tech.

Hatcheries produce ALL units. The difference between when to drone and when to produce Zerglings is a vital part of Zerg Strategy.

Zerg might be broke, but changing the base mechanics is not the way to fix it.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 01:56:24
September 17 2010 01:52 GMT
#78
lol wtf, building spawning pools for supply? huh?

lol some people have really, really odd suggestions.

and why do u keep calling supply "control ?

i'm getting so confused, you keep switching between "Supply" and "control" =/

lololol read those sc2f threads, they were just awesome.

my favourite one was where he said building spawning pools should unlock air units, lol.

this dude seems to care so much about what he's saying, and yet his ideas are so, so very bad.
AtlasMech
Profile Joined September 2010
United States105 Posts
September 17 2010 02:10 GMT
#79
All I'm saying is that the following figures

Hatch (2) overlord (8)

CC(11) supply depot (8)

Nexus (10?) pylon (8) overtime down the road, and particularly the immediate road, it creates a small flaw in zerg's game that lingers.

Remember though, zerg make less hatcheries now in starcraft 2, BECAUSE of the queen in the first place.

lets say I had 2 hatcheries and 1 overlord for ever 1 cc and 2 dept, toss etc.

(4)(8)(4)(8)(4)(8)(4)(8)
(11)(8)(11)(8)(11)(8)
(10(8)(10)(8)(10)(8)

Yes, of course as soon as you factor the pool, zerg are capable of making a lot of offense, But I'm just curious why terran and protoss have all this food while zerg doesn't. It kind of suggests that zerg wouldn't really be able to properly take advantage of that mass production.

But the point is, it isn't until pool is made that the offense can be made. This makes the spawning pool a very key building, a very important building, especially when it comes to its role. I do think it being worth 8 food, that it is the small flaw that has been holding zerg back. I mean, zerg only make 1 pool anyways.

I would like to propose the notion that zerg is actually a split race, and that is what makes zerg unique from the terran and the protoss. Zerg is truly the odd race out.

Perhaps this should have been considered to a certain degree when considering zerg food style?

I still gave the data which shows how if pool was simply worth 8 food, it would then be balanced in cost and food.

To the guy who said early pool would be stronger. It wouldn't. All it would do is make the follow through be a greater follow through to some degree, and the recovery, if the agression was chose not to be followed up on, a more effective recovery to some degree.

Heaven is a day dream, Hell is a nightmare
theseb099
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2 Posts
September 17 2010 02:14 GMT
#80
Why are you comparing 2 hatch + 1 ovie to 1 CC + 2 depot and not 1 hatch 2 ovie?

On September 17 2010 11:10 AtlasMech wrote:
This makes the spawning pool a very key building, a very important building, especially when it comes to its role.


There you have it, the pool is already a key building. Why do you need to add 8 food to it?
What's this all aboot eh
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