EPTBan/Eliminate "Cheese" - Page 4
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monalfie
United States9 Posts
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Thaddaeus
Germany107 Posts
there is no cheese level (at least not in 1v1; there are situations in 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 where my mouth tends to form the word cheese (4 terran reaper rush using the high ground in the base) though it might not be cheese. | ||
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:12 virgozero wrote: im arguing its not though. cause look. if a strategy is all-in, just call it all-in. if a strategy is cannon-rush, just call it cannon-rush if a strategy was proxy gate, just cal it proxy gate. Why add another classification for nothing? This is the English Language dude... We have entire books dedicated to different words with the same meanings, and most of our words have multiple meanings. | ||
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:18 Blackhawk13 wrote: Cheese is just slang for a stupid gimmicky strategy that usually doesn't take much skill at all to pull off. i.e. photon rushing... any 5 year old can pull this off as long as he doesn't get scouted. It's a really stupid strategy that takes little to no skill but can be an easy win if you pull it off right. ^ example of why we should elminate the term. because people like blackhawk (no offense bro your not the only one ! and its easy to jump on the bandwagon + it may not be entirely your fault, just the community) please elaborate on the "stupid strategy" part. And not to mention most people cannot do a photon rush effectively. | ||
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[9]Months
Netherlands30 Posts
So what if people think its "cheese"? let them think, let them be naieve! If it works it works, i won with these good strategies alot to, and i defended from them also. Its just another aspect that will make the game more fun and unpredictable. I dont think the word cheese should be understood as a negative thing, and ofcourse you will always have people who see it negative but only because they lose to them and dont know how to defend against them yet. Like i said, i agree with u. but its just a word, its not a big deal. | ||
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WastedYouth
United States563 Posts
The reality is 'cheese' is another word for strategy. If someone somehow manages to pull off some kind of all in cannon rush on you and you can't defend it then frankly you have been out-strategized. | ||
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:20 Zerksys wrote: Virgozero take a psychology class some time. The reason that he said you were snobby and elitist was because you are doing exactly what the elite class in the past would do. They would promote the way in which they speak as "proper" in order to assert their superiority over other groups who spoke the same language. wait wtf? so I told someone in here that the way they spoke was "in proper" huh??? quote me pls? Even today this is seen in such places as the United States with words such as "ain't" and "y'all" which are deemed improper ways to contract the words "are not" and "you all." Slang or vernacular as you would be taught in a psychology class is one of the ways the counterculture rebels against the elitists. Basically in this situation you are the elitist trying to say that certain words we use are not proper and there are other replacements for it. I am saying that a certain word is useless and I'd suggest it not be used. thats all. i am not into this "proper" or not bs. | ||
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PineappleSage
Canada109 Posts
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
I AM NOT ! This is a DISCUSSION THREAD >.< ! Its meant for discussing. I am sorry that my english sux and I unable to write in a more "calmly mood" but this is all I can manage. Thanks ! | ||
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:16 virgozero wrote: WTF? how am i mean >.> I just wanted to discuss and I offered my opinion and am trying my best to help people realize my reasoning. no actually. my argument is that cheese is not needed. where as an epic game is needed. how else are you going to say that game was epic?? i mean its.. epic lol you cant sub another word. if a came was cannon rushed then why not just say cannon rush. so i am not allowed to tell people my opinions? wtfs the point of this forum? It's the way you lash out at people that makes it seem as if you're mean. You might not be trying to do so, but some of the things you are saying to other people on this thread were very insulting such as calling some of us illiterate because we failed to understand the underlying meaning of your post. There are plenty of suitable replacements for the word epic. Awesome, cool, gnarly, groovy, the bees knees. I'm just using an example to illustrate that there are words to replace others, but it doesn't mean we stop using them. Yes it is your opinion I apologize for saying that you shouldn't tell people. I agree that it is overused and often misused by the way. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
i dont see the problem in any way and actually think your OP is one of the worst threads in the recent time that got more then 2 pages. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:17 virgozero wrote: Hi ! your so smart, are you willing to enlighten us? honestly if you have something to say, SAY IT. Dont give this "snobby elitism" bs A bad cause requires many words. | ||
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:27 Zerksys wrote: It's the way you lash out at people that makes it seem as if you're mean. when people respond to me meanly I do the same. Just so were talking on the same level. when people don't read and respond with offotpic/non sense, i will make some sarcastic jokes or wut not about them. Yes it is your opinion I apologize for saying that you shouldn't tell people. I agree that it is overused and often misused by the way. <3 ! | ||
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
On July 23 2010 17:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: term has been used for years and years and years. it has a meaning and just because its sometimes overused doesnt mean it should go away. i dont see the problem in any way and actually think your OP is one of the worst threads in the recent time that got more then 2 pages. the problem? 1.) its useless, why have a useless word? 2.) it promotes people calling other people strategies inadequate by using the term cheese. | ||
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Blackhawk13
United States442 Posts
But anyways.... I don't know why you are getting so riled up over a word. I just told you the meaning of it, I didn't invent it, that's just what it means. People who get beat by a really stupid strategy that anyone could pull off are generally upset and label it as "cheese". People also tend to agree that these types of strategies make for very boring games to watch, or play. However, you're right in that a lot of these people are just angry over losing. And you're right that anything you can do in the game without cheating is a legitimate strategy and fair game. I edited this into my last post but here it is again: Wikitionary definition of "Cheesy" 4. (informal) of a solution to a problem, inelegant, showing no skill http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheesy Edit: I also think that you're right that the term is being way overused nowadays. But I don't think it will be going away anytime soon. Double Edit: I guess I should replace the term "stupid strategy" with "no skill strategy" if i want to be consistent. I suppose it isn't "stupid" if it works. | ||
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TheOracle
Australia256 Posts
I see the problem here though. You are dealing in absolutes, and obviously don't like the concept of non-absolutes. You said that 'fastey' had no meaning. Yet there is. I'll use a text graphic to demonstrate. Lets take fast to be faster than normal. Using absolutes we get; Normal-Fast Yet in the real world this doesn't exist, as absolutes are hard to find. Here is how 'Normal' and 'Fast' exist in the real world. Normal ------------------------------------------- Fast See in reality there's a whole slew of variations to 'fast', some of which lie between normal and fast. 'Fastey' is similar to 'Fastish' which I have actually used, when something wasn't 'Fast', nor was it 'Normal' speed. It may be something like thus; Normal ------------------ Fastey ------------- Fast A similar situation occurs when using rough numbers. Numbers are absolute, but sometimes we need non-absolutes. We use words like 'Some', 'Lots', 'A few' etc. We may be told to make 'Some' Zealots, 'A couple' of Zealots, and many more variations. These are not absolutes, but have a relation to each other. As shown; None-----A Couple------Some-------Lots And thus we arrive back at Cheesy. Using the same format; Normal Strategy-----------Cheesy Strategy-------------A Cheese Strategy So you see it lies somewhere between Normal strats and Cheese strats, exhibiting characteristics of both, while being neither. In maths we could say it Cheesy Tends Towards Cheese, if maths is your thing rather than english. However to respond to some individual points you made. it was clearly a cheese? 1.) it wasn't all in, if the guy kills the pylon.. boohoo he lost a pylon...... 2.) it wasnt early For the early part see above. But when you have put 0 into gas, and have built 5-6 pylons in the other players main, then have warped units directly there, it is an all in, at least at that level of play. Unless you do significant damage (in which case the cheesy play has succeeded, and therefore we ignore this option), you are down at least 500 minerals for the pylons, as well as being supply blocked, as well as whatever minerals lost for the units. Therefore it is Cheesy play. It doesn't lose him the game outright if it fails (He still has 4 warpgates and quite a few probes at his main), but it certainly isn't a standard normal attack as it has significantly MORE risk than just losing a battle (Which you compared it to later in your post) But to summarize. You said there is no Cheesy as there is no Fastey. I say there is, as humans find it very difficult to deal in absolutes. This was the premise for your original post I realize. You want there to be absolute definitions for Cheese, where infact any absolutes are arbitrary, as SC2 is a dynamic and evolving game. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On July 23 2010 16:34 virgozero wrote: no its not called gardening. gardening consists on a variety of actions not specifically watering plants and bringing them outside. You are obviously missing the point to where your just trying to demote this argument by atking my horrible on-the-go examples, so I would kindly suggest you to either re-read this topic another day when your feeling a bit more open minded or just leave the discussion. that again is my "suggestion" BRO I DNOt think u know what gardening is. u water the motherfucking plants, and bring themoutside. also, keep in mind that gardening inviolves both teh actions he stated. peace. this entire thread is pointless. semantics about cheese? who cares. if u dont like the term dont use it. stop fucking arguing semantics.....should have better ways to use ur time I AM DISSAPOINT OP. | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
ps i love the - i cant do it , you shouldnt been doing it - mentality . | ||
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