On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.
You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.
You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.
Well I got just the respsonses I expected.
I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.
You seem not to like chemicals...
-Antibiotics aren't exactly very "natural". -The best thing to get rid of cancer still involves radiation. -Some of the best ways to live through diseases involve being very miserable because of the side effects of the medicine. -Vaccines greatly increase survival rates of babies no matter what whackjobs say about them. -Lithium for the win.
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Edit: Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom.
I'm glad to get it cleared that my 6 years of medical school only taught me about symptoms and how to treat them. I'm somewhat wondering why we spent the first 4 years learning about stuff like the endocrine system, how neural impulses traverse the neuron, how muscles contract, how the immune system works, how the body senses danger - the list goes on.
I'm also wondering why antibiotica is used in medicine at all - since they treat the cause of the symptoms and not the symptoms. I'm also wondering why we spend so much time advocating for better diet/hygiene - I mean, doctors only treat symptoms right?!
My mind. It was just blown. In a very unpleasant way.
"Chinese" medicine works due to the very same reason "western" medicine does and whilst an educated doctor in "western" medicine can explain why his medicine works from an objective POV - the practioneer of the "chinese" medicine can't.
I'm sorry I had to dumb it down like that and of course my first post was not to be taken seriously. But seeing the arguments against homeopathy I thought I had to counter on the same level.
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.
You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.
You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.
Well I got just the respsonses I expected.
I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.
Out of interest: what can they cure? (this sounds like a loaded question - it really isn't, I'm very curious since I do encounter quite a few patients who either have tried or are going to try "alternative" medicine)
On June 16 2010 05:59 eLiE wrote: A lot of it could be the placebo effect, which has been scientifically proven. I'm currently reading a book on hypnosis (really interesting) and apparently there's been a link proven between the mind and individual cells, and they can be controlled to do certain things. In the anecdote, the author talked about how scientists were able to control the body to remove warts. Amazing stuff.
yea, a lot of what we don't understand about the human body is usually directly caused by the lack of understanding of our brains.
there is a very good scientific answer to all these claimed successes of the pseudo sciences, but may not be apparent at this stage of medical technology. Placebo affect is a very solid answer to most however.
In all likelihood, the reason why your 'Chinese homeopathy' is working is because they are adjusting their horrible nutritional and sleeping habits. Not eating a ton of processed foods, getting plenty of fiber and water, etc.
Yes, the medical establishment is very slow to react to things and often takes a heavy-handed approach, but the real problem is that people expect to take blood pressure and heart disease pills and then don't try to solve the underlying problem.
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.
You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.
You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.
Well I got just the respsonses I expected.
I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.
Cough.
Now, if you've hung around, I expect you to say "well she isn't serious alternative practitioner, well that's part of the problem, in this country homoeopathy is unregulated and receives tax payer money for the NHS.
So I encourage people to call themselves homoeopaths and nutritionists, simply because you can, its not like being a nurse or doctor, you need qualifications to be able call yourself one of those.
I once gave a particularly vulnerable female friend of mine a very hard time for using homeopathic remedies when she was ill. She was still ill at the time and needed lots of gentle care. I don't feel bad. People have to learn!
I actually feel like the people that buy homeopathic medicine are worse than the people that try to cure their disease through prayer. At least it doesn't cost money to pray.
Homeopathy is bogus. It's absurd that people can just say that they are being "open minded," when you are just being ignorant in the face of science, which is an extremely damaging way of thinking.
"People wrap themselves in their beliefs... So tightly, that you can't set them free. Not even the truth will set them free... You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts" -Spectre, from the video.
People want to believe that this shit works for same reason people believe in horoscopes or religions (Okay, I guess that's a stretch, but you get the point).
On June 16 2010 05:59 eLiE wrote: A lot of it could be the placebo effect, which has been scientifically proven. I'm currently reading a book on hypnosis (really interesting) and apparently there's been a link proven between the mind and individual cells, and they can be controlled to do certain things. In the anecdote, the author talked about how scientists were able to control the body to remove warts. Amazing stuff.
Between the "mind" and individual cells? Made of what, magical pixie strings?
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.
You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.
You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.
Well I got just the respsonses I expected.
I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.
She doesn't even get her facts right. The NHS budget is £80b, not £8b. With that in mind I'm not too unhappy about £4m being spent on homeopathy, it's 1/20th of a percent of the total budget. £0.0005 on homeopathic medicine for every £1 spent on actual medicine is pretty diluted, they should be happy.
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.
You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.
You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.
Well I got just the respsonses I expected.
I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.
She doesn't even get her facts right. The NHS budget is £80b, not £8b. With that in mind I'm not too unhappy about £4m being spent on homeopathy, it's 1/20th of a percent of the total budget. £0.0005 on homeopathic medicine for every £1 spent on actual medicine is pretty diluted, they should be happy.
Homeopathy may work if you believe in it - secondaries effects include placebo and a tendency to be religeous. Please consult your doctor or pharmaceutic.
No, it doesn't. I'm a chemist student soon to take my bachelor and then a master in biochemistry. I promise it won't work. Except some placebo in fanatics.
On June 16 2010 06:06 KwarK wrote: I once gave a particularly vulnerable female friend of mine a very hard time for using homeopathic remedies when she was ill. She was still ill at the time and needed lots of gentle care. I don't feel bad. People have to learn!
Well, I look at this way, the money you spent on those sugar pills could have been spent on ben and jerry's while you sit in bed at home and recover.
Also I'm incredibly annoyed by people that ask what's the harm?, especially due to the joke in science circles that homoeopathy doesn't have any side effects because to have those, you need effects first.
The story is always the same, homoeopathy/chiriopractory/crystal therapy/vitamin supplements cures something in a more desirable manner/cures something that is incurable with evidence based medicine. (delete as appropriate)
And you can laugh, call it a tax on the stupid, but all this preys on the weak and the desperate and that can easily be you, or someone you know, now or in the future.
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).
Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.
Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.
You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.
You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.
Well I got just the respsonses I expected.
I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.
She doesn't even get her facts right. The NHS budget is £80b, not £8b. With that in mind I'm not too unhappy about £4m being spent on homeopathy, it's 1/20th of a percent of the total budget. £0.0005 on homeopathic medicine for every £1 spent on actual medicine is pretty diluted, they should be happy.
Actually it would be £0.05 per £1.
Because 80,000,000,000 divided by 4,000,000 is 20. My bad. I always forget that exemption to normal maths.
Pretty harsh reactions versus homeopathy inhere. I think alot of people underestimate the placebo effect. Endorphins can have a very strong positive effect on the human body, which can actually help to overcome certain small ilnesses. It should never be used for the serious diseases though, I think everybody can agree on that.
You must believe in the therapy though, that is the tricky part. Those who are against it dont even have to try, objectively speaking it has no effect of course. But if the mind can convince your body it does, it is actually a healthy way to overcome the smaller ilnesses.
As a medical student myself I would never advise one of my patients to use homeopathy, nor would I ever use it myself. But who are we to criticise those who do find benefits in it?
EPT
