Homeopathy - does it work?

On June 16 2010 01:26 Piy wrote:
It has very little substantial scientific support. Almost none actually.

I'm sure if one of them had cancer they'd use something with a slightly better track record.

I would like people to be aware of the fact that homeopathy is a pre-scientific philosophy, that it is based entirely on magical thinking and is out of step with the last 200 years of science. People should know that typical homeopathic remedies are diluted to the point that no active ingredient remains, and that homeopaths invoke mysterious vibrations or implausible and highly fanciful water chemistry. I would further like people to know that clinical research with homeopathic remedies, when taken as a whole, show no effect for any such remedy.

On June 16 2010 01:30 Maenander wrote:
There is doubt in your heart, so it won't work for you, I am sorry. Only faith can save your lip.

On June 16 2010 01:28 APurpleCow wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

Show them this? James Randi explaining why Homeopathy is BS.

On June 16 2010 01:28 APurpleCow wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

Show them this? James Randi explaining why Homeopathy is BS.

Homeopathy is the best way to treat health problems for my parents.

On June 16 2010 01:44 Krolinkos wrote:
For a good resource on quackery and pseudo-medicine, I would suggest sciencebasedmedicine.org, and all the respective blogs run by the contributors. I have nothing but the highest praise for both the editors (Novella and Gorski), their efforts over the last few years fighting to somewhat combat the endless bullshit on the internet have been outstanding.

They also have a reference section for factual overviews of common quackery topics, along with indexed posts by topic and links to good outside resources.

Quick links for you:
http://sciencebasedmedicine.org
http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/homeopathy/

On June 16 2010 02:09 GG.Win wrote:
Randi is an idiot.

While I'm skeptical myself on Homeopathy, but theres no reason to not give it a try. It's relatively safe and actually has some validity in it. Placebo effect is great anyway.

On June 16 2010 02:15 gogogadgetflow wrote:

Of course. You take your medicine and I'll take mine. I think marketing placebos as medicine to the unwitting is somewhat criminal, but whatever floats your boat.

On June 16 2010 02:09 GG.Win wrote:
Randi is an idiot.

While I'm skeptical myself on Homeopathy, but theres no reason to not give it a try. It's relatively safe and actually has some validity in it. Placebo effect is great anyway.

On June 16 2010 02:20 GG.Win wrote:


Lol?
I never said anything about my choice of medicine, nor did I say anything about marketing homeopathy as placebo. You should look at conventional western medicine before you go off ranting.

On June 16 2010 02:20 Djzapz wrote:
Yeah dude you're right, there's no reason not to try something disproven by science... What were we thinking? Of course it's relatively safe, seeing how it's water.

If you have too much money you can even fill your water dispenser with homeopathic "medicine" that does absolutely nothing. Sure you pay an incredible amount of money for water but whatever, right? You should also try voodoo and crystals. No reason not to try it right?

Randi is an idiot and screw science, what has it ever done for us?

Seriously, think logically.

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:



Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:

Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:



Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:



Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:



Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 01:28 APurpleCow wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

Show them this? James Randi explaining why Homeopathy is BS.

On June 16 2010 02:50 xtfftc wrote:
Don't even try arguing with them, there is no way to convince them that you are right quickly. Do what you think is right without engaging in a discussion about it, that's the most effective thing you can do.

On June 16 2010 02:09 GG.Win wrote:
Randi is an idiot.

While I'm skeptical myself on Homeopathy, but theres no reason to not give it a try. It's relatively safe and actually has some validity in it. Placebo effect is great anyway.

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:

Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 02:57 Slunk wrote:
It's obviously only placebo (everything else is not an opinion, just bullshit), but maybe it's the best to market it as actual medicine. No placebo will work if it has placebo written right on it, that is not how it works. And based on a lot of tests and statistics, the placebo effect is very strong, so it is actually not that easy to invent some medicine that works better than a placebo.
So, I am aware of the fact that homeopathy is bullshit, but I don't get angry over this as long as there are people who get better using this "meds" to get the placebo effect going.

On June 16 2010 02:09 travis wrote:


This site is obviously massively biased. I'll get into it with you if you want to.

It's seriously like a gigantic slap in the face to eastern medicine, which has a very rich history and while it may contain "quackery", it also contains proven methods of healing.

It's clear the editors have already made up their minds about many of these topics. Have they actually studied them their whole lives? Or did they study western medicine?

On June 16 2010 03:05 sqwert wrote:
soooo how do i recognize a homeopathic solution from medicine? do hospitals carry homeopathic solutions?

On June 16 2010 03:05 sqwert wrote:
soooo how do i recognize a homeopathic solution from medicine? do hospitals carry homeopathic solutions?

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:



Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 03:02 Djzapz wrote:

The thing is they would get better without it too... Or with western medicine which is often cheaper... If only they knew.

On June 16 2010 01:45 BlackMagister wrote:
Yes as explained by many people like James Randi and Richard Dawkins homeopath dilutes the substance in water so much that they're literally isn't any of the substance left in the water and is literally just water. They think the water retains memory of the substance somehow but if that were true than the water would just retain the memory of everything and regular tap water would be just as effective if not more so because it's even more diluted. After all water is recycled, the water you drink has passed through other organisms through the mouth and the bladder.

It might have been the most effective medicine in older times simply because medicine sometimes actually was harmful, but compared to today's medicine it's just using the placebo effect to cure people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYqQ_n2vOOI

On June 16 2010 02:55 PrincessLeila wrote:


I agree with "Placebo effect is great anyway".

Of course it won't heal cancer ! And I never use Homeopathy.

But, i have argued with many people who think Homeopathy is great, and, all i can say is :

For "minor" diseases, when werstern medicin treatment don't give results on a person, but this person feel Homeopathy does, that's great for him !

It's like the "magic heal kiss" when a child feel pain somewhere after a fall... If the child feel better, that's great ! ( i am NOT speaking of a serious wound ofc )

Placebo effect FTW !!

On June 16 2010 02:09 GG.Win wrote:
Randi is an idiot.

While I'm skeptical myself on Homeopathy, but theres no reason to not give it a try. It's relatively safe and actually has some validity in it. Placebo effect is great anyway.

On June 16 2010 03:09 Krolinkos wrote:


First off: there is no such thing as "eastern" medicine or "western" medicine. There is just medicine, period, defined as a treatment that works.

The health industry searches far and wide for potential cures, and the easiest place to start is with "traditional" remedies.

If it works, find why it works, and then put the active ingredient in a pill, balm, or solution and dispense accordingly. If it's a physiological treatment (as opposed to pharmaceutical) then, again, find out why and repeat. This is where all your "proven methods of healing" have gone - into our pills, splints and IV drips!

A great outcome of the scientific method is that we can find out whether the candles, the incense, the herb rubbed on the wound, or the chanting by a priest in the ancient ritual is what causes patients to heal. Spoiler alert: EVERY treatment found to test above placebo level so far, in the entire fucking scientific literature, has been found to have a proper cause which has been reproduced and used on patients.

With regard to the above, I don't want to hear anything about science "not working" for certain treatments, or "not being appropriate" to investigate a particular cure of your liking. Science is the only tool we have to look at the cause/effect relationship in an unbiased manner, and deals with all natural phenomena. Even if the treatment caused realignment of your inner energy flow (although undecectable by any instrument, funnily enough), we would still be able to see the results in patient health outcomes.

Also: I pose to you - if I can't detect something, and you can't show me how to detect it, why should I believe something exists?

Yes, it's clear that the authors have 'made up their minds' about these topics. However, taking acupuncture as an example, if a proper study was released tomorrow that detailed:

- a physiological mechanism for health benefits, including chemicals/receptors if appropriate
- an explanation thereby of the "connections" between needles in one place and relieving pain in unconnected regions
- a double-blind trail showing that some connection was significantly significant
- a reason why modern medical investigations has missed the effect up until now

then I and the rest of the world will sit up and take notice. And, when further studies are done, and the effect is confirmed, then we will reverse our position right away and look for what we were doing wrong in all our previous studies, and incorporate it into professional treatment. Until then, we'll stick with the current evidence. This isn't being closed-minded, we're completely open to the evidence that's never been provided.

On June 16 2010 03:21 Slunk wrote:


No, they wouldn't. In order for the placebo effect to work, people have to believe that they get help. It does not matter if it helps or not, they have to get some pills or something.

On June 16 2010 03:36 Twisted wrote:
As far as I know, homeopathy is based on using toxins or virusses that actually are cause of certain infections but in such a small dose that your body can build up anti-bodies over time. Therefore treatments take a long time to show any sort of effect. I have had a long history with homeopathy, mainly because I had a lot of allergies in my body (dust, house animals, easy to get a cold, stuff like that) from when I was a baby.

I'm not sure if the homeopathy ever helped against my allergies, but I do know that it cured me of one thing: warts. In specific waterwarts (not sure if it's translated like that in English). The usual cure for that is liquid nitrogen which freezes them off with a temperature of -220 degrees Celcius, but that didn't work. I had them on my nose (big confidence issues back when I was like 16-17 years old) and later on on my hands. Docs tried cutting them off, tried burning them off with an electro torch (most painful experience in my life) and even more liquid nitrogen treatments at a dermatologist. They came back every time. So I went to see a homeopath (same one that 'treated' my allergies) and he gave me Thuja which is a pretty common homeopathic medicin against warts. He told me that it would take 6 months before any effect was shown. In the next 6 months nothing really happened, as he said. But right after about 6 months, I suddenly saw black spots in the warts and they started dying off. 3 days later every wart was gone and I definitely had about 20. I didn't give it much hope from the start, I didn't know how long I was taking them when they started dying so I doubt it's a placebo. I'm confident that Thuja was the reason why they died. Nothing else worked.

One of the happiest days of my life when they started dying. You wouldn't believe how bad it looks to have it look like snot is coming out of your nose the whole time. Every time someone would kindly say 'hey you should whipe your nose' only for me to reply that they're warts and I couldn't do anything about em.

So yeah, pretty sure most homeopathic medicine doesn't work as well, but I'm certain that there is some truth to the method.

On June 16 2010 03:36 Twisted wrote:So yeah, pretty sure most homeopathic medicine doesn't work as well, but I'm certain that there is some truth to the method.

On June 16 2010 03:40 Lefnui wrote:
Unfortunately, nothing you said can be taken seriously. None of it has any evidence to support it at all, only subjective stories from people that support homeopathy. The principles of homeopathy are extremely illogical and are contradicted by science.

On June 16 2010 03:36 Twisted wrote:
As far as I know, homeopathy is based on using toxins or virusses that actually are cause of certain infections but in such a small dose that your body can build up anti-bodies over time. Therefore treatments take a long time to show any sort of effect.

On June 16 2010 03:11 Roe wrote:
Although I think Homeopathy is quite the fraud, the amount of fanaticism and lack of scientific method on the part of Randi made him seem more like a comedian playing to the crowd than scientist trying to disprove a theory.

In this case, the medicine worked 100%, even though I can't 'scientifically' prove it.

This is a longshot, but: has "science" proven that it *doesn't* work?

On June 16 2010 03:44 Destro wrote:
warts are a virus, usually removing them does remove the effected area but its fully possibly for them to continue to grow. The issue i have with this, is that it makes no sense as to why you would assume it was the homeopathy that fixed your warts. The way you described homeopathy, it would be like putting out a bonfire with a candle? You also described the immunization process that has been adopted by modern medicine... but thats entirely pre-emptive.

I don't know why you ruled out the possibility of your body removing the virus itself, and jump to the conclusion it was diluted water that had a 6month triggering time. (???)

On June 16 2010 03:45 Twisted wrote:


I do not support homeopathy fully, just saying that that medicine has definitely worked for me and that other medicine might also work. I'm a pretty rational person who doesn't believe in ghost stories or any type of religion. I believe in evolution/fact. In this case, the medicine worked 100%, even though I can't 'scientifically' prove it.

Just want to point out that it shouldn't be shot down instantly because 'science' told us so. Lots of oriental medicine from people living in the jungle from plants or whatever would probably receive the same response from established doctors who believe in their education.

This is a longshot, but: has "science" proven that it *doesn't* work?

On June 16 2010 03:45 Twisted wrote:


I do not support homeopathy fully, just saying that I believe the medicine has definitely worked for me and that other medicine might also work. I'm a pretty rational person who doesn't believe in ghost stories or any type of religion. I believe in evolution/fact. In this case, I believe that the medicine worked 100%, even though I can't 'scientifically' prove it.

Just want to point out that it shouldn't be shot down instantly because 'science' told us so. Lots of oriental medicine from people living in the jungle from plants or whatever would probably receive the same response from established doctors who believe in their education.

This is a longshot, but: has "science" proven that it *doesn't* work?

On June 16 2010 03:37 travis wrote:


what health industry are you talking about? most of the money in today's health industry, at least here in the U.S.A, is based in pharmaceuticals. are you trying to tell me that the pharmaceutical industry is interested in traditional remedies? that's B.S. they are interested in making money, as are most western doctors. which is exactly why you see so many commercials for drugs with a million side effects and then 1 month later you hear about class action lawsuits against that company because the drug was causing so many problems. it's to the benefit of these companies to discredit alternative healing as much as possible.

On June 16 2010 03:36 Salv wrote:


There is a reason not to give it a try, it's simply diluted water, the science behind it shows that. There is evidence to show that it doesn't work and is simply quackery. You're really going to say that a placebo effect is a good reason to take it?

On June 16 2010 03:49 Twisted wrote:


Why wouldn't it be? I just have an open mind about it. Maybe it is true that the medicine is mixed with something that works but why would they call it homeopathic then?

And of course I have thought about the possibility of my body removing the virus itself. I was walking around with em for what.. 2-3 years or whatever. Tried various treatments as written in my original post which didn't work. So what, just coincidentally 6 months (as described with the treatment method) after I started using it they die in less than 3 days?

There are also doctors here that have followed a regular education of 10 years to become normal house-call doctors and after that picked up a course in homeopathy. Why would they do that if they don't believe in it? They are doctors after all that have learned to cure people the conventional way.

On June 16 2010 03:53 Issorlol wrote:


Water does not cure warts. The timing is purely coincidental.

On June 16 2010 03:54 Djzapz wrote:

Like I said there might've been an active ingredient in the solution he used. If it was 100% homeopathic then it's definitely coincidental but I don't think they would sell 100% homeopathy for warts.

On June 16 2010 03:53 Chill wrote:

What do you dilute water with?

On June 16 2010 03:47 Liquid`NonY wrote:

He's not trying to be a scientist disproving a theory while giving a short talk to an audience. There aren't any scientists that conduct the scientific method in such a setting. Randi is aware of proper science and the fact that it reveals vendors of homeopathic medicine as the fraudulent merchants they really are. He's spreading the message, hoping to put a stop to them.

On June 16 2010 03:56 Twisted wrote:
You can get them at any drug store. Another possibility then? What if homeopathy has a bad reputation because 90% are frauds but the 10% that are legit actually make it work?

Why wouldn't it be? I just have an open mind about it. Maybe it is true that the medicine is mixed with something that works but why would they call it homeopathic then?

And of course I have thought about the possibility of my body removing the virus itself. I was walking around with em for what.. 2-3 years or whatever. Tried various treatments as written in my original post which didn't work. So what, just coincidentally 6 months (as described with the treatment method) after I started using it they die in less than 3 days?

There are also doctors here that have followed a regular education of 10 years to become normal house-call doctors and after that picked up a course in homeopathy. Why would they do that if they don't believe in it? They are doctors after all that have learned to cure people the conventional way.

On June 16 2010 03:56 Twisted wrote:
You can get them at any drug store. Another possibility then? What if homeopathy has a bad reputation because 90% are frauds but the 10% that are legit actually make it work?

On June 16 2010 03:59 KwarK wrote:

Then the guys with the ones who actually work do a double blind study on a significant number of patients and publish their results. A pharmaceutical then buys their patent for water and we no longer call it alternative medicine, it's just medicine. It's not like there's no method for proving and publishing science in todays world.

On June 16 2010 03:56 Issorlol wrote:


When are actual homepathic remedies not functionally pure water?

On June 16 2010 03:59 KwarK wrote:

Then the guys with the ones who actually work do a double blind study on a significant number of patients and publish their results. A pharmaceutical then buys their patent for water and we no longer call it alternative medicine, it's just medicine. It's not like there's no method for proving and publishing science in todays world.

On June 16 2010 03:58 Destro wrote:
The problem i have with this story, is having an open mind about things is one thing, but calling something a viable medical treatment because it "could" work is to me, dangerous. Sure there is nothing harmful in homeopathic treatments (as far as i know) but the mindset is that of faith rather then science.

One big thing that bothers me about this, is that i can relate very well to it. I suffered from severe exema all over my body for about the first 20 years of my life, to the point of wearing long sleaved shirts and pants in the summer, and then also having it on my face. I can relate to you with your warts completely. However i had a similar thing happen to me a few years ago, i had tried different medications all my life, none of which worked to any degree for me to be happy, or would only be a short term solution. One week it all just started to go away, and by the end of the week my skin was completely clear of exema for the rest of my life. I had never taken homeopathic "medicine", gone to a faith healer, or had a guy rub my feet telling me it would fix my exema. My body did something I can't quite understand. But, I do not attribute it to something beyond biology I might not understand.

On June 16 2010 04:00 Djzapz wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Like here, it has menthol for instance and honey. Plenty of homeopathic medicine aren't just homeopathy.

+ Show Spoiler +

Here, 20% ethyl alcohol.

On June 16 2010 04:06 Twisted wrote:
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/neq042

Random article I googled about Thuja Occidentalis. Mind you, it's actually made of a tree. Can't really read it because it's too scientific but it's a published article so I would assume a professor approved of the publishing of this article (it's from Oxford).

Some people are arguing that every homeopathic medicine is made of water with a 0.001% other ingredient in it? Is that even true? Wouldn't the dose be different with sometimes 0.1% or whatever? Posts like 'you are drinking water', while I was actually taking small pills, don't really help your argument so I won't respond to those.

On June 16 2010 04:06 Twisted wrote:
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/neq042

Random article I googled about Thuja Occidentalis. Mind you, it's actually made of a tree. Can't really read it because it's too scientific but it's a published article so I would assume a professor approved of the publishing of this article (it's from Oxford).

Some people are arguing that every homeopathic medicine is made of water with a 0.001% other ingredient in it? Is that even true? Wouldn't the dose be different with sometimes 0.1% or whatever? Posts like 'you are drinking water', while I was actually taking small pills, don't really help your argument so I won't respond to those.

On June 16 2010 04:09 Destro wrote:


is there a cut and dry outline of what a homeopathic medicine must consist of to be considered homeopathy?

could end a lot of confusion in this thread

On June 16 2010 04:09 Impervious wrote:


It's being marketed as homeopathic. It's not..... There is a difference.....

On June 16 2010 03:51 KwarK wrote:

You're completely wrong here. It's a huge time saver to start with a natural remedy that works and break it down until you can find the thing that makes it work. Way better than just experimenting with chemicals at random until something does something. What the pharmaceutical gives you isn't a natural remedy, they don't give you willow bark extract, they give you asprin. But you're an idiot if you think they ignore willow bark extract.
If they heard some random amazonian tribe used a unique natural remedy only they had access to they'd be on that in a second. They'd test the natural remedy to see if it worked, then test the chemicals within it to see which of them worked, then synthesise the drug.

On June 16 2010 04:09 Destro wrote:


is there a cut and dry outline of what a homeopathic medicine must consist of to be considered homeopathy?

could end a lot of confusion in this thread

On June 16 2010 04:12 travis wrote:


Point taken, and I was off base with how I said that. But I think you're oversimplifying it. If in chinese medicine ground up scorpion was said to be a cure for herpes, then

1.) it would not be so easy to find out what about the ground up scorpion caused the herpes to be cured

and

2.) im not so sure it would be in the companies best interest to develop a medicine based on it, when people could buy ground up scorpion for 1/4 the price

On June 16 2010 04:12 travis wrote:


Point taken, and I was off base with how I said that. But I think you're oversimplifying it. If in chinese medicine ground up scorpion was said to be a cure for herpes, then

1.) it would not be so easy to find out what about the ground up scorpion caused the herpes to be cured

and

2.) im not so sure it would be in the companies best interest to develop a medicine based on it, when people could buy ground up scorpion for 1/4 the price

On June 16 2010 04:16 seppolevne wrote:

I can tell you right now that ground up scorpion is going to cost way more then pills containing the active ingredient. It isn't actually all that hard to find out what is active.
1) Mass spectrometry etc. -> find out all the stuff that's in it
2) Remove from the list things that have been tried
3) Test the rest on the virus

Companies spend m/billions on R&D, do you know how much money the patent for the cure to herpes is worth?

On June 16 2010 04:17 Silvanel wrote:
Basicly homeopathy is this: You take a active ingridient that actually works and dilute it with water until there is about 1 molecule of active ingridient in milion molecules of water (numbers might not be exactly like that ,but You get the drift). The clue here is that homeopaths belive in something called "memory of water", the water acordingly to their belief should take some properties of active ingridient and work exactly like that active ingridient (or even stronger).

So homepath medicine is : water, sugar, and active ingridient diluted to the point when its existence is negligable.

On June 16 2010 04:25 travis wrote:


but what if it doesn't work like that, what if the curing of the herpes is a result of the digestion of multiple ingredients of the scorpion, for example? hopefully it's clear i don't fully know what im talking about here because I don't want to come off like i am arguing now, but rather just being inquisitive. you clearly know more about this than I do.

On June 16 2010 04:26 seppolevne wrote:

This is not exactly true. They do not use an "active ingredient" in that it normally treats the symptoms, you add one that gives you the same symptoms. So you have a rash? -> poison ivy, stomach ache? -> something that upsets your stomach.

On June 16 2010 04:25 travis wrote:


but what if it doesn't work like that, what if the curing of the herpes is a result of the digestion of multiple ingredients of the scorpion, for example? hopefully it's clear i don't fully know what im talking about here because I don't want to come off like i am arguing now, but rather just being inquisitive. you clearly know more about this than I do.

On June 16 2010 04:32 Silvanel wrote:


Well i have heard of both methods. Both makes no sense at all.

On June 16 2010 04:29 Ao_Jun wrote:
Twisted:

I just read a litle about Thujone and homeopathy, it seems like it is only a 1:100 dilution. This would make it about 0.9 gram of Thujone pr. liter water ( around 35.526*10^20 molecules(ish)). That is not a very dilute solution compared to much modern medicine - so if this is what you took it is very plausible that it actually worked.

Also the article you mentioned talks about thujone's medical probabilities(not much about homeopathy) so it seems it is a very biologically active molecule which again makes your claim it cured you reasonable.

If homeopathy uses solutions of around 1:100 i dont see how you can dispute it scientifically. But when you dilute something to 1:10^23 (or even higher) it is not going to cure you.

On June 16 2010 04:28 KwarK wrote:

Make a list of what is in ground scorpion. Remove chemicals one by one until it stops working. The ones that are left are the cure. Synthasise and sell.

On June 16 2010 04:40 Twisted wrote:


Thanks for posting this. I agree when it's diluted 1:10^23 that it's not going to cure you lol. That's mostly what I'm trying to argue. General consensus of people who are so much against homeopathy in this topic argue that everything that's considered homeopathic medicine is diluted to that degree.

So when something is diluted 1:100 like Thuja, it's no longer homeopathic according to you (you as in general crowd in this topic)?

The whole voodoo that water is enchanted by the medicine if it's diluted that much is obviously something I don't believe in.

On June 16 2010 03:45 Twisted wrote:

Just want to point out that it shouldn't be shot down instantly because 'science' told us so. Lots of oriental medicine from people living in the jungle from plants or whatever would probably receive the same response from established doctors who believe in their education.

This is a longshot, but: has "science" proven that it *doesn't* work?

On June 16 2010 04:48 Lefnui wrote:


That's not true at all. There are purely logical, scientific reasons for why those plants are medicinal. Homeopathy on the other hand is based off of insane, illogical principles. The idea that something becomes stronger the more you dilute it is bat shit crazy. That is a core principle of homeopathy.



That is indeed a long shot. The onus is upon people who believe in homeopathy to prove it, not science to contradict it. In my opinion common sense disproves it though.

I don't know why you keep putting science in quotes. Seems like you're a bit cynical or sarcastic about science in general.

On June 16 2010 04:47 Djzapz wrote:

According to homeopaths the more dilute the more powerful. When it's 1:100 it's not homeopathy. When you take an aspirin it's not 100% active ingredients. When you take antibiotic pills it's not 100% antibiotics. The reason why it's 1/100 is so you can pick it up with your fingers or so they can put something else in the other 99%.

On June 16 2010 04:51 Twisted wrote:


I put science in quotes because it's a vague concept. Not because I'm cynical/sarcastic about it.

On June 16 2010 04:57 Lefnui wrote:

It's not a vague concept at all. And I find it interesting that you refuse to respond to the rest.

Tell me, do you believe that diluting something makes it stronger?

On June 16 2010 02:30 GG.Win wrote:



Show me some proven science saying homeopathy doesn't work. Show me that the Hormesis principle is proven false. If you're so sure it doesn't work, then a large portion of Europe and Asia must be fooled silly.

Are you even going to compare costs of homeopathy and conventional medicine? What a joke.

Randi is not a scientist, the guy is a fucking magician. I personally don't support homeopathy but writing it off immediately with fucking youtube videos of randi is such a joke.

You should seriously think logically, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Wait, the earth is flat right?

On June 16 2010 04:47 Djzapz wrote:

According to homeopaths the more dilute the more powerful. When it's 1:100 it's not homeopathy. When you take an aspirin it's not 100% active ingredients. When you take antibiotic pills it's not 100% antibiotics. The reason why it's 1/100 is so you can pick it up with your fingers or so they can put something else in the other 99%.

On June 16 2010 04:57 Lefnui wrote:
It's not a vague concept at all. And I find it interesting that you refuse to respond to the rest.

Tell me, do you believe that diluting something makes it stronger?

On June 16 2010 05:00 Ao_Jun wrote:



I dunno where you got it that 1:100 is not homeopathic, but http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/neq042 states that the homeopathic thujone usen on animals is 1:100 dilution..
And i just assumed that if 1:100 can be called homeopathic there is a chance that whatever twisted took is diluted to maybe between 1:10 and 1:1000 or even 1:10000 at which point there is still sufficient thujone for it to possibly work. I really didnt want to investigate more.

Anyways i don't think the idea of homeopathy is plausible, but that does not mean that no homeopathic "medicines" work.

On June 16 2010 05:12 Empyrean wrote:
Just allow Dr. Charlene Werner to explain homeopathy. She does a great job:

+ Show Spoiler +

Fun game: try to make it to the end!

On June 16 2010 05:11 Djzapz wrote:
text

On June 16 2010 05:24 Twisted wrote:


Well this is just arguing what homeopathy is. I guess if homeopathy is summarized as:

if you dilude a certain product to 1:10^x it will work less well than if it's diluded to 1:10^2x

then homeopathy is retarded. I doubt that's the only definition of what homeopathy is though. Because that summary makes it sound like some kind of deluded (lol) voodoo.

On June 16 2010 05:12 Empyrean wrote:
Just allow Dr. Charlene Werner to explain homeopathy. She does a great job:
+ Show Spoiler +

Fun game: try to make it to the end!

On June 16 2010 05:11 Djzapz wrote:

Ok. Let's rehash homeopathy for the kids who didn't bother to "investigate more". Do your homework.

The medicine has to have an effect that's the opposite of what the diluted item does.
1: If I take a bite of the Thujone, it'll have a certain effect on me.
2: According to homeopathy, if I take that same Thujone and dilute it (A LOT), it will have the opposite effect.

1: If I take caffeine, I'll be more awake
2: If I dilute caffeine to 1:10^27 and I take it, in a small vial, chances are I don't have a single part of caffeine left. According to homeopaths, this WATER's memory will make me sleep. That's right, diluted caffeine is a sleeping pill.

If the Thujone is "diluted" to 1:100, it's still part of the solution. When I take that solution, it's just like taking the thujone directly.

It is NOT homeopathy just because people SAY it is. At least 2 reasons.
-It's not dilute enough. You do actually take in your body an ingredient which may have effects.
-It's the effect of the thujone, not its opposite.

You can call it homeopathy and you can call it voodoo medicine. It goes 100% against what homeopathy means. This is no different from taking any pill and calling it homeopathy because it's not 100% active.

On June 16 2010 05:23 DefMatrixUltra wrote:


Oh my god. I lost. I can usually stand through anything. That is just... unbelievable.

Stephen Hawkings gave us the strings theory.

On June 16 2010 05:12 Empyrean wrote:
Just allow Dr. Charlene Werner to explain homeopathy. She does a great job:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o

Fun game: try to make it to the end!

On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote:
It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".

Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).

Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.

On June 16 2010 05:45 KwarK wrote:

I recommend she write to a major pharma company and explain that she's discovered the cure for the cause. They will literally pay billions for that.

On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote:
It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".

Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).

Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.

On June 16 2010 05:46 snowbird wrote:


LOL

On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote:
It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".

Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).

Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.

Edit:
Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom.

On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote:
It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".

Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).

Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.

Edit:
Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom.

On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote:
It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".

Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).

Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.

Edit:
Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom.

On June 16 2010 05:47 Djzapz wrote:

Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better.

You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy.

You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox.

On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote:
It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine".

Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back).

Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease.

Edit:
Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom.

Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.

On June 16 2010 05:53 3clipse wrote:
I'm actually pretty amazed that we are getting people defending homeopathy. This is brilliantly funny.

On June 16 2010 05:54 snowbird wrote:


Well I got just the respsonses I expected.

I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.

Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.

On June 16 2010 05:58 Ghostcom wrote:


I'm glad to get it cleared that my 6 years of medical school only taught me about symptoms and how to treat them. I'm somewhat wondering why we spent the first 4 years learning about stuff like the endocrine system, how neural impulses traverse the neuron, how muscles contract, how the immune system works, how the body senses danger - the list goes on.

I'm also wondering why antibiotica is used in medicine at all - since they treat the cause of the symptoms and not the symptoms. I'm also wondering why we spend so much time advocating for better diet/hygiene - I mean, doctors only treat symptoms right?!

My mind. It was just blown. In a very unpleasant way.

"Chinese" medicine works due to the very same reason "western" medicine does and whilst an educated doctor in "western" medicine can explain why his medicine works from an objective POV - the practioneer of the "chinese" medicine can't.

On June 16 2010 05:54 snowbird wrote:


Well I got just the respsonses I expected.

I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.

Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.

On June 16 2010 05:59 eLiE wrote:
A lot of it could be the placebo effect, which has been scientifically proven. I'm currently reading a book on hypnosis (really interesting) and apparently there's been a link proven between the mind and individual cells, and they can be controlled to do certain things. In the anecdote, the author talked about how scientists were able to control the body to remove warts. Amazing stuff.

On June 16 2010 05:54 snowbird wrote:


Well I got just the respsonses I expected.

I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread.

Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument.

On June 16 2010 05:59 eLiE wrote:
A lot of it could be the placebo effect, which has been scientifically proven. I'm currently reading a book on hypnosis (really interesting) and apparently there's been a link proven between the mind and individual cells, and they can be controlled to do certain things. In the anecdote, the author talked about how scientists were able to control the body to remove warts. Amazing stuff.

On June 16 2010 06:13 KwarK wrote:

She doesn't even get her facts right. The NHS budget is £80b, not £8b. With that in mind I'm not too unhappy about £4m being spent on homeopathy, it's 1/20th of a percent of the total budget. £0.0005 on homeopathic medicine for every £1 spent on actual medicine is pretty diluted, they should be happy.

On June 16 2010 06:06 KwarK wrote:
I once gave a particularly vulnerable female friend of mine a very hard time for using homeopathic remedies when she was ill. She was still ill at the time and needed lots of gentle care. I don't feel bad. People have to learn!

On June 16 2010 06:14 Empyrean wrote:


Actually it would be £0.05 per £1.

On June 16 2010 06:17 Glowy wrote:
No, it doesn't. I'm a chemist student soon to take my bachelor and then a master in biochemistry. I promise it won't work. Except some placebo in fanatics.

On June 16 2010 06:01 snowbird wrote:


I'm sorry I had to dumb it down like that and of course my first post was not to be taken seriously. But seeing the arguments against homeopathy I thought I had to counter on the same level.

On June 16 2010 06:20 Kerotan wrote:

Well, I look at this way, the money you spent on those sugar pills could have been spent on ben and jerry's while you sit in bed at home and recover.

Also I'm incredibly annoyed by people that ask what's the harm?, especially due to the joke in science circles that homoeopathy doesn't have any side effects because to have those, you need effects first.

The story is always the same, homoeopathy/chiriopractory/crystal therapy/vitamin supplements cures something in a more desirable manner/cures something that is incurable with evidence based medicine.
(delete as appropriate)

And you can laugh, call it a tax on the stupid, but all this preys on the weak and the desperate and that can easily be you, or someone you know, now or in the future.

On June 16 2010 06:27 KwarK wrote:

Because 80,000,000,000 divided by 4,000,000 is 20.
My bad.
I always forget that exemption to normal maths.

On June 16 2010 01:28 APurpleCow wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

Show them this? James Randi explaining why Homeopathy is BS.

On June 16 2010 07:24 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:

His argument is bad. He basically just makes fun of it without explaining why the homeopathic "law of similars" or the idea that the "essence of the medicine", or whatever the fuck he called it, is still in the solution and get's more potent with further dilution is untrue. He just expects us to assume that those ideas are untrue without presenting any kind of evidence against it.

In general I see homeopathy in the same light as meditation. If you believe in it you can support your immune system with your mind with either of those. As long as "proper" medicine is subscribed if the medical condition requires it, I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I think many people go to the doctor prematurely. As long as your body can take care of the illness on it's own, you should leave it to him and show a little patience.

On June 16 2010 05:01 Twisted wrote:


Are you trolling or honestly devoid of reading comprehension.

On June 16 2010 06:28 Mango wrote:
Pretty harsh reactions versus homeopathy inhere.

I think alot of people underestimate the placebo effect. Endorphins can have a very strong positive effect on the human body, which can actually help to overcome certain small ilnesses.

It should never be used for the serious diseases though, I think everybody can agree on that.

As a medical student myself I would never advise one of my patients to use homeopathy, nor would I ever use it myself. But who are we to criticise those who do find benefits in it?

On June 16 2010 07:57 Orome wrote:
I'm a little confused now because while I knew that scientific research had generally shown that homeopathic treatment doesn't work, I didn't know just how ridiculous the whole thing is. Why then would the Swiss health care system cover homepathic treatment?

On June 16 2010 07:57 Orome wrote:
I'm a little confused now because while I knew that scientific research had generally shown that homeopathic treatment doesn't work, I didn't know just how ridiculous the whole thing is. Why then would the Swiss health care system cover homepathic treatment?