EPTHomeopathy - does it work? - Page 8
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zappa372
Chile365 Posts
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Ao_Jun
Denmark396 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:11 Djzapz wrote: Ok. Let's rehash homeopathy for the kids who didn't bother to "investigate more". Do your homework. The medicine has to have an effect that's the opposite of what the diluted item does. 1: If I take a bite of the Thujone, it'll have a certain effect on me. 2: According to homeopathy, if I take that same Thujone and dilute it (A LOT), it will have the opposite effect. 1: If I take caffeine, I'll be more awake 2: If I dilute caffeine to 1:10^27 and I take it, in a small vial, chances are I don't have a single part of caffeine left. According to homeopaths, this WATER's memory will make me sleep. That's right, diluted caffeine is a sleeping pill. If the Thujone is "diluted" to 1:100, it's still part of the solution. When I take that solution, it's just like taking the thujone directly. It is NOT homeopathy just because people SAY it is. At least 2 reasons. -It's not dilute enough. You do actually take in your body an ingredient which may have effects. -It's the effect of the thujone, not its opposite. You can call it homeopathy and you can call it voodoo medicine. It goes 100% against what homeopathy means. This is no different from taking any pill and calling it homeopathy because it's not 100% active. Most of what you said here was pretty much what i was trying to say in my post? that taking a 1:100 dilution of a substance differs little from taking a 'real' pill I don't really care if it's "real" homeopathy or not. I was just stating that at some point in time a 1:100 dilution has been called homeopathy( in this case by The European Agency For The Evaluation Of Medicinal Products) and through calculations i showed that there was a chance of the medicine actually working. Now, about this whole homeopathy - i dont remember reading or hearing anywhere that you had to dilute the active ingredient to the point of non existance, i just read that the more dilute, the more potent medicine(according to the theory). Please link me to an article that agrees with you. and to quote myself: "Anyways i don't think the idea of homeopathy is plausible, but that does not mean that no homeopathic "medicines" work." <-- i'll stick to this.  | ||
KwarK
United States44448 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:23 DefMatrixUltra wrote: Oh my god. I lost. I can usually stand through anything. That is just... unbelievable. Stephen Hawkings gave us the strings theory. Oh God. I lasted up until the point she made the argument that if e=mc2 and m is virtually 0 then e=c. That's not how multiplication works. If m = 1 then you can eliminate it. If m is really really small then that's as important as if it were really really big. | ||
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akevin
Canada120 Posts
Pulled this from Wikipedia for reference: "Dilution debate Not all homeopaths advocate extremely high dilutions. Many of the early homeopaths were originally doctors and generally used lower dilutions such as "3X" or "6X", rarely going beyond "12X". The split between lower and higher dilutions followed ideological lines. Those favoring low dilutions stressed pathology and a strong link to conventional medicine, while those favoring high dilutions emphasised vital force, miasms and a spiritual interpretation of disease.Some products with such relatively lower dilutions continue to be sold, but like their counterparts, they have not been conclusively demonstrated to have any effect beyond the placebo effect." | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:12 Empyrean wrote: Just allow Dr. Charlene Werner to explain homeopathy. She does a great job: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o Fun game: try to make it to the end! Godammit, that hurt my head. | ||
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snowbird
Germany2044 Posts
Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. Edit: Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom. | ||
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine". Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. I recommend she write to a major pharma company and explain that she's discovered the cure for the cause. They will literally pay billions for that. | ||
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snowbird
Germany2044 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:45 KwarK wrote: I recommend she write to a major pharma company and explain that she's discovered the cure for the cause. They will literally pay billions for that. LOL | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine". Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better. You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy. You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox. PS: It's convenient for your mother to say people get sick because of modern medicine. That way, she can "make $$$ because ppl keep coming back". Perfect business plan. | ||
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professorjoak
318 Posts
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
I am 100% serious. If she really has the cure for *dramatic pause* the cause then just think what that could be worth. People can live forever. Quit being so selfish, steal the universal panacea and show it to the world. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine". Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. Edit: Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom. hey my mom has cancer, can your mom poke my mom with needles enough to make it go away? pm me plz... this is a matter of life and death... | ||
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Fireflies
United Kingdom211 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine". Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. Edit: Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom. So, how would the world-renowned authority of your mother treat liver cancer? Or meningitis? Is powdered tiger penis going to help there? | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine". Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. Edit: Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom. You have a misguided and biased view of scientific medicine, of course there are issues with it, big pharma and the like, but there are geninually nice people out there like ben goldacre who are trying to right the wrongs of evidence based medicine, and make it an even better system. Homeopaths belong in the same boat as people that claim that vitamins cure AIDs, antivacers, chiropractors and faith healers, in cases where modern medicine can't currently help, they offer false hope, and where modern medicine can help, they deny and disrupt the use of scientifically proven peer reviewed medicine that can help them. Its criminal. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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snowbird
Germany2044 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:47 Djzapz wrote: Psychics and witch doctors and people like your mother can help people with small issues and make them feel better. You'll see those people hauling ass to the hospital when they get cancer or AIDS or get into an accident. When they get an ear infection, they'll take antibiotics. When they have something serious, Chinese medicine won't help. Your herbs and stuff, they may help a little - but thanks to "western medicine", you'll probably live above 70 year old. Say thanks to "scientific medicine" for nearly tripling your life expectancy. You're just gullible -_- sorry man. Get back to me when you eradicate something like smallpox. Well I got just the respsonses I expected. I don't want to "convince" anyone (like that's even possible over the internet), so I'll just leave the thread. Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:42 snowbird wrote: It works. My mother is an alternative practioner (chinese medicine, acupuncture, homepathy, etc.) and she's helped a lot of people who were almost beyond repair due to being a chemical waste dump thanks to "scientific medicine". Scientific medicine = let's treat the symptoms, people will see results and think it helps (plus we can make $$$ because ppl keep coming back). Chinese medicine = let's treat the cause, there may be no immediate visible effect, but it will actually cure the disease. Edit: Personally I don't let my mother treat me because I'm just too lazy and rather take some pill and be done with it. Homeopathic treatment is more than just taking some pill, it usually involves more involvement (diet change, change of habits / sleeping pattern), because it takes a look at the whole body system and not just one symptom. I'm glad to get it cleared that my 6 years of medical school only taught me about symptoms and how to treat them. I'm somewhat wondering why we spent the first 4 years learning about stuff like the endocrine system, how neural impulses traverse the neuron, how muscles contract, how the immune system works, how the body senses danger - the list goes on. I'm also wondering why antibiotica is used in medicine at all - since they treat the cause of the symptoms and not the symptoms. I'm also wondering why we spend so much time advocating for better diet/hygiene - I mean, doctors only treat symptoms right?! My mind. It was just blown. In a very unpleasant way. "Chinese" medicine works due to the very same reason "western" medicine does and whilst an educated doctor in "western" medicine can explain why his medicine works from an objective POV - the practioneer of the "chinese" medicine can't. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
Edit: Just one thing, no serious alternative practitioner would ever claim to be able to cure cancer or AIDS, or mend bones or have a substitute for antibiotics. That's just ridiculous. I don't know why people use that as an argument. fine. polio. does your mother cure polio? | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On June 16 2010 05:53 3clipse wrote: I'm actually pretty amazed that we are getting people defending homeopathy. This is brilliantly funny. This makes me laugh. | ||
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eLiE
Canada1039 Posts
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