Change the way broodlings work. Instead of creating a unit, make the unit stick to the head of the target (like in alien lol) but it can still be killed and dies after X time.

That sounds like an interesting solution. The broodlings more or less become a DoT spell like fungal growth/plague and there wouldn't be some impenetrable meat shield to stop ground AA from attacking the broodlords.

checo

Mexico1364 Posts

April 19 2010 06:53 GMT

#22

On April 19 2010 15:51 Simple wrote:
i notice you totally neglect using cost/resources as a possible solution. if could be made more expensive or take longer to build

This isnt a opion cause we want units that can be killed or countered effectly if you just make them more expensive that doesn't mean the units es better balance... is just means that would take longer for the user to get the imba unit

Funchucks

Canada2113 Posts

April 19 2010 06:54 GMT

#23

To my mind, broodlords are big air as it was meant to be. Rather than nerfing broodlords, I'd like to see carriers and battlecruisers brought up to the same level of fearsomeness somehow.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

April 19 2010 06:55 GMT

#24

On April 19 2010 15:51 Kinky wrote:

Show nested quote +

which is essentially the same thing as making broodlings clip through all units.

CakeOrI)eath

United States327 Posts

April 19 2010 06:55 GMT

#25

On April 19 2010 15:39 Zaphid wrote:
Aren't there some rules for topics like this ?

Anyway, they have weaknesses, mainly the thing that they can't attack top of the tree units like BC and Carriers, which is what they should be compared to. Also, don't forget that if you nerf them too much, there is simply no other go-to unit for zerg beyond mass of hydras/roaches spiced with some other stuff and people are getting sick of that already.

I disagree that they are weak to BC and Carriers. Corruptors are probably the most cost effective thing in the game vs BC and Carriers. Since you kinda have to get corruptors to get BLs, if you scout capital ships you just have to morph 5-6 BL to stop any ground counter and then keep your corruptors around.

The only things that I have seen work against BL are stalkers with blink to get underneath them and avoud the broodling wall supported by collosi to reduce the dps of the broodlings. Even this strat is probably not cost effective but idk.

No other go-to unit? I kinda miss seeing ultras. I realize they kinda suck, but from what I can tell thats mostly because if you are going to invest that many resources into teching you might as well get the imbalord. Ultra-hydra-ling sounds kinda nasty actually... if a little gas heavy. I might have to try it out vs a friend.

trueg0x

South Africa86 Posts

April 19 2010 06:57 GMT

#26

if you take BL's out, then zerg will have absolutely no answer to late game other than massing roaches/hydras/mutas. Zerg is such a linear boring race, please dont remove the one tier 3 zerg unit that is ever made (anyone ever seen ultras? I havent). man, i really feel zerg is a fail race atm. if you nerf bl's, then please, give zerg SOMETHING...

CakeOrI)eath

United States327 Posts

April 19 2010 06:58 GMT

#27

On April 19 2010 15:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:

Show nested quote +

which is essentially the same thing as making broodlings clip through all units.

I think there is a difference. A DoT doenst attack other units after its first target dies while a unit with clipping does. Against a terran bio ball i could see this becoming a pretty significant difference.

NoNoNoNoNyoron

United States78 Posts

April 19 2010 06:59 GMT

#28

I think something that may help to balance the issue would be to make the broodlings move much slower on the ground. This will prevent the broodling from pursuing attackers and stacking on a considerable amount of extra damage and will also get in the way of the main zerg army as it tries to pursue attackers. This way, if you are engaged by broodlords, you can retreat your army and the broodlings will actually be detrimental to the zerg player.

EmeraldSparks

United States1451 Posts

April 19 2010 07:02 GMT

#29

I like the zero-collision idea.

blackbean

Canada43 Posts

April 19 2010 07:05 GMT

#30

As many people have pointed out, the problem with the broodlords seem to be the broodlings that mess up the targetting ai and the amount of damage that they tank for the zerg army. While i do think something needs to be changed, the functionality of the broodlings must not be removed from the unit as it is what makes it unique and it fills the niche that zerg army is missing, being aoe damage.

My suggestion for a fix would be make the broodlings an autocast spell. This changes two things: Firstly, broodlings are no longer spawning indefinitely, you have to make a conscious decision of when to use them. Secondly it gives other players another way to counter them other than having to bum rush the broodlords with their entire army, with emp or feedback as the broodlords now operate on energy, and cannot reach full damage potential without the energy to cast broodlings.

Novembermike

United States102 Posts

April 19 2010 07:05 GMT

#31

The real problem is that the broodlings mess up the AI so that the broodlords can attack large army with complete impunity. I've hard armies of 50+ hydralisks die to broodlords simply because clicking on the broodlords causes the hydras to not attack the broodlings and just die and doing an attack move causes them to attack the broodlings and die to the lords. This is 50+ hydras vs ~5 broodlords as well.

-orb-

United States5770 Posts

April 19 2010 07:06 GMT

#32

I like those possible solutions

zomgzergrush

United States923 Posts

April 19 2010 07:11 GMT

#33

On April 19 2010 15:37 Two_DoWn wrote:
If memory serves correctly I believe that the consensus among top players (artosis, louder, LZ, Day9) was that the best way to fix the unit was to simply make it so that broodlings did no damage, and that just messing with the auto target was enough.

By that logic, the carrier interceptors should be low priority and all units should automatically attack the carriers.

Mass stalkers -> blink
MM/thors/vikings -> no explanation needed here.

Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

Germany2959 Posts

April 19 2010 07:12 GMT

#34

Jesus Christ. Aren't there new forum rules that require you to post 8 Platin replays? DO SO NOW!

LaughingTulkas

United States1107 Posts

April 19 2010 07:16 GMT

#35

For those who think it shouldn't be changed, I think a major area of concern should be how BL's destroy the utility of ultralisks. There isn't really a role for ultras now because if you get to the late game, the Broodlord is the obvious choice (from my experience). There should be at least some choice in the matter, with the best option being some way of balancing the two so that the choice becomes largely map dependent, like the dynamic between carriers and arbiters in SC:BW (or even the choice between ultras and guardians to a lesser extent, but many, excluding Day[9] might say that guardians also have limited utility in BW).

I don't want to redesign the scope of your thread Charlie, but I think this issue should be addressed alongside. To me, it's not so much that Broodlords are completely imbalanced vis-a-vis the other races, but that they are imbalanced compared to the ultralisk. If there was a better balance between them, I think zerg as a whole would be more interesting.

Now balancing the ultra and the broodlord together might involved a broodlord nerf (imo probably so) but I think we shouldn't just focus on the broodlord in isolation with the other races, but also in it's role in the zerg race as a whole.

Turbo.Tactics

Germany675 Posts

April 19 2010 07:18 GMT

#36

No nerf needed imo. Broodlords are pretty much the latest unit in the game and need to be morphed and don't atack air and cost a bunch.

As for countering them I'll say what tossplayers said to me when I lost to Carriers as terran: "Well....just don't let me get them in a larger number..."

The only thing a Boordlordnerf would be good for, is so that Zergplayers start to appreciate Ultralisks.

Deleted User 55994

949 Posts

April 19 2010 07:19 GMT

#37

Broodlings are definitely a bit excessive but holy christ how durable broodlords are is also just ridiculous. I've had battles where I have a massive fleet of vikings I made specifically to counter broodlords and it will still take what feels like 20 vikings 2 shots to take out individual broodlords... It's really hard to counter a flying siege-range unit when you can't kill them faster than they can kill your ground army.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

April 19 2010 07:19 GMT

#38

I agree, ultra sucks. but that's another thread

LaughingTulkas

United States1107 Posts

April 19 2010 07:21 GMT

#39

On April 19 2010 16:19 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I agree, ultra sucks. but that's another thread

I dunno, I think the balance between the two third tier units is of vital importance, and shouldn't really be discussed separately, but it's your thread, I won't derail it anymore (: (:

huun

Turkey58 Posts

April 19 2010 07:24 GMT

#40

give broodlings a ranged attack. main problem about them is not damage i think, they fracking up formation of ground armies. also sieged tanks works for zerg when broodlords in game.