On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
Wow. Talk about hell week for Jaedong. First off, starting off with a bo5 against Canata, someone who is as big of a threat or maybe a bigger threat to Jaedong than fantasy. And now? He needs to finish off Zero while potentially playing 5 games in the two days that follow (At least they'll all be zvz's). If anyone can pull this off it's Jaedong.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
We protect out own. In flocks, yes. That's cause there are flocks of dedicated, knowledgeable CJ fans... *cue reaction!*
Look, all you need to look for when asking whether EffOrt is the next Leta is this: EffOrt: 6-1 Leta: 0-3
That's their record in the playoffs. Only one of these two has ice water in his veins.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
They aren't even flaming... what are you talking about?
I mean im not a huge effort fan.. but hes ZvZ is so good. way to go clam!!
and the JD canata series was epic. i loved how jd laughed when he won. I thought canata played great... that game on carthage he got so fooled by the hidden expo LOL. And i love that Valkonic build on heartbreak. so strongggg
On July 31 2009 00:51 vaMpYr wrote: being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
Then clearly, you haven't paid any attention to the pro-scene in 2001. I don't think I even knew what Starcraft was back then and even I know Boxer was respected as the best back then. Coming on TL and trying to impose your "facts" on everyone else isn't the way to go.
P.S. Sorry if English isn't your first language but please, please, capitalize...
im in despair .. im as much boxer fan as you are , dont miss on that . im just honest . boxer has never been a bonjwa like iloveoov nada and savior . i HATE iloveoov , so im objective here . i prefer A LOT boxer than oov and savior . boxer has a negative record in tvp , his macro was poor compare to the others tops , and he has never been able to win any league after 2002 when all the legends have appeared ( nada , oov , kingdom , nal ra , reach , xellos , july .. ) . bonjwa is a hard word . even nada oov and savior had a short age of total domination . boxer was in the top players at his age and maybe even after . he was in the top i think until 2005 . but he has never been THE top . at his best age , he was a jaedong or a bisu . but he was not a oov nada or savior . just be honest on that . being the biggest legend of starcraft of all time doesnt mean for sure to be the best . we can find many similar situations in sport .
all this useless discussion when we were talking about effort and zergs , i think i have shown my anger about all the shit on effort like i wanted to do it . im satisfied , lets talk again now after OZ vs CJ =)
It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
I failed to see how a guy who single-handedly DEFINED progaming not considered the best at his time. Maybe Boxer didn't have a ridiculous 80% vZ record like Oov did, but back when Nada and Oov were still being milk-fed, Boxer was crushing every single soul on his way to the throne. In fact, it was because of him that the word "dominance" got added to the dictionary (today, if you look up the word, you will pretty much see something like "refer to Yo-Hwan Lim).
Anyway, leaving all the Boxer's hype aside, all I want to say is that Boxer's records might not be as impressive as others', but it doesn't mean that he wasn't the best player during his time. He was bagging GOLDs back in 2001, and you're saying he wasn't the top player.
Back on topic, I still can't believe Canata lost. I mean I know JD is godlike and stuffs, but Canata has been doing so well lately. His vZ was actually getting there and beating JD was the only last step to make people start calling him The vZ Bonjwa ... But never mind that, I dislike his new hairstyle (as much as I hate mushroom T_T) and a JD-Bisu final sounds orgasmic to me ...
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
On July 31 2009 00:51 vaMpYr wrote: being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
Then clearly, you haven't paid any attention to the pro-scene in 2001. I don't think I even knew what Starcraft was back then and even I know Boxer was respected as the best back then. Coming on TL and trying to impose your "facts" on everyone else isn't the way to go.
P.S. Sorry if English isn't your first language but please, please, capitalize...
im in despair .. im as much boxer fan as you are , dont miss on that . im just honest . boxer has never been a bonjwa like iloveoov nada and savior . i HATE iloveoov , so im objective here . i prefer A LOT boxer than oov and savior . boxer has a negative record in tvp , his macro was poor compare to the others tops , and he has never been able to win any league after 2002 when all the legends have appeared ( nada , oov , kingdom , nal ra , reach , xellos , july .. ) . bonjwa is a hard word . even nada oov and savior had a short age of total domination . boxer was in the top players at his age and maybe even after . he was in the top i think until 2005 . but he has never been THE top . at his best age , he was a jaedong or a bisu . but he was not a oov nada or savior . just be honest on that . being the biggest legend of starcraft of all time doesnt mean for sure to be the best . we can find many similar situations in sport .
all this useless discussion when we were talking about effort and zergs , i think i have shown my anger about all the shit on effort like i wanted to do it . im satisfied , lets talk again now after OZ vs CJ =)
Boxer's records aren't the best mostly because he has continued to play long after he was de-throned as "the best", and he started to lose more, which tainted his record. He completely dominated everything up until '02, and is without a doubt considered the first Bonjwa. I'm sorry, but this is one of those rare occasions where your opinion is wrong. He was THE BEST back then. Of course he wasn't a Bonjwa like Oov, Nada, or Savior. Each generation improved on the last, and that's why each Bonjwa dominated the previous ones. Comparing them to each other is stupid because they dominated different eras where the game was played COMPLETELY differently. If you watch any of Boxer's early games, you'll see what I'm talking about - VERY micro oriented, minimal macro in comparison. The game was completely different back then and it's ridiculous to compare players from different eras.
It was a great attempt by Canata. He's certainly improved this season, without a doubt. But it's somewhat of an established fact that you can't "cheese" (as the kids say) JD with the same build twice in the same BoX series (I hope someone puts up sweet VOD to show the error of my assessment).
As for Effort, 0:3 seems pretty definitive to me. I give some credit to Calm's micro and aggression (and yes, some luck as well), but even if you disagree, you must question why Effort went for the worst (or at the very least, the most dangerous) ZvZ build two consecutive games. So much for the hype... I think he'll still perform well in the SPL.
I'm thinking the remainder of Iris vs Bisu is going to be absolutely mind-blowing, nay,face-combusting.
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
-goes off to rabble about Byzantium-
I don't believe it was a complaint about imba maps but that Boxer was given a version of a map to practice on and it changed in the final and no one told him (it had a cliffable base in the version he was given and he went for a fast dropship build only to not find a cliff or something I believe).
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
-goes off to rabble about Byzantium-
I don't believe it was a complaint about imba maps but that Boxer was given a version of a map to practice on and it changed in the final and no one told him (it had a cliffable base in the version he was given and he went for a fast dropship build only to not find a cliff or something I believe).
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/riptide/proleague200809/pl_sf_illustration_jaedong.jpg)
