Unfortunatly im gonna have to agree with Kona. Canata has been playing lights out starcraft recently. Jaedong has a tough schedule and i bet he's put the OSL higher on his to do list.
Jaedong vs Canata is the real finals. They have the strongest vZ on the scene and its a given the winner of tonight will Zerg-slay his way to an MSL title.
On July 30 2009 14:35 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Jaedong vs Canata is the real finals. They have the strongest vZ on the scene and its a given the winner of tonight will Zerg-slay his way to an MSL title.
Who's this Bisu[Shield] guy? I've never seen him play. I heard he's pretty good versus Zerg.
lol i forgot i was loooking at the prdictions and thought jaedong had lost to canata. i was about to jump off a bridge lololol. youre going down canata. mark jaedongs words
On July 30 2009 14:35 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Jaedong vs Canata is the real finals. They have the strongest vZ on the scene and its a given the winner of tonight will Zerg-slay his way to an MSL title.
Jaedong is Jaedong, but he is not fully Jaedong in a tournament that Jaedong doesn't want to win as badly as say, oh PL or OSL while Canata is like "FUCK SKT1 IM GONNA WIN A MSL, SUCK MY BALLS BISU"
On July 30 2009 15:51 TwoToneTerran wrote: Hoping Jaedong wins. I just want to see a damn Jaedong Bisu finals, dammit. >:[
Canata's hungry for Bisu's blood. He is tired of Bisu,fantasy and best getting all the attention. He wants this MSL, he needs this MSL. Bisu on the other hand will have to practice alot more heavily PvZ as this will surely be what he will face in the PL finals in the ace as effort/JD are both very good contenders for CJ/Hwasung to send out as aces. Also Iris has been playing very well as of late.
On July 30 2009 16:50 IrrasO wrote: jaedong has a history of dropping the first game in a series, i'm not too worried about him advancing.
But with this strange type of Bo5 maybe jaedong is going to lose the first game also tonight >.<.. and maybe canata with a smart play can get a 3rd win and eliminates JD from the MSL
Voted Calm and JD. i love stx soul/Calm/July and i would love to see calm pull out a win. and canata is playing very well lately but even with 8 rax bunker rush to proxy factory lift off in main to 2 port wraith to MnM dropship play i still pick jd.
Yeah forum reports should just be treated as rumors until we know for sure. Though if he is sick will he be Bisu sick where he just wears the cough mask or iloveoov/backho sick where he can't play and has to forfeit.
thank you so much for your nice comments about the icons if you like them, you can support them by dropping a comment in the thread about them in the website feedback forum
btw i apologize for creating a lot ot offtopic talk here ^^
ACE STX Samsung Khan KT MagicNs Woongjin Stars SK Telecom T1 Hwaseung Oz CJ Entus WeMade Fox MBC Hero Hite Sparkyz eStro
Wow, they are really great!
On the topic, I think Jaedong will take it in 5. I think lots of people really underestimate Canata but he is really good in TvZ these days. Just look at his record. Also his play was strong so definitely it won't be easy for Jaedong. But I think he can still pull it out.
I never had much faith in Calm's ZvZ. After recent show by Effort I think he is a clear favourite. Effort is on the roll and I expect him roll over Calm.
But the beauty of starcraft is that it is so unpredictable.
On July 30 2009 18:31 jhNz wrote: thank you so much for your nice comments about the icons if you like them, you can support them by dropping a comment in the thread about them in the website feedback forum
btw i apologize for creating a lot ot offtopic talk here ^^
BALLSY! Considering last game's bunker rush, Canata has to expect Jaedong to play safe and go pool before hatch. Instead he decides to CC before barracks, while JD actually 12hatches. LOVE IT
Jaedong flanks with quite a ton of lings and takes out Canata's MnM force near his natural. Canata's MnM force at 1 still there while he's moving out another one.
On July 30 2009 18:59 Mikilatov wrote: Yeah, the problem with observing terran is actually knowing if/when they scan secret things. Did they show his minimap?
yeah, he didnt know about the hidden expo for almost the whole game.
On July 30 2009 18:59 Mikilatov wrote: Yeah, the problem with observing terran is actually knowing if/when they scan secret things. Did they show his minimap?
Yeah when they were showing the FPView
Canata did not know about the expo until late game
Wow Jaedong... He was EVERYWHERE this game. Casting Dark Swarms all over the map, scourging zillions of vessels, harassing like mad. Obviously he has unleashed his wrath and switched to imba mode. Congrats to Canata for putting up a good fight though. But what can you do about THIS jaedong? I hope Canata has something prepared on the next maps, so that we can see great games.
JD's scourge use was flawless. I take it back, it wasn't just the expansion that won him the game, but also his ability to keep the vessel count so low the whole game.
On July 30 2009 19:01 Trezeguet23 wrote: JD's scourge use was flawless. I take it back, it wasn't just the expansion that won him the game, but also his ability to keep the vessel count so low the whole game.
On July 30 2009 18:59 Mikilatov wrote: Yeah, the problem with observing terran is actually knowing if/when they scan secret things. Did they show his minimap?
Yeah when they were showing the FPView
Canata did not know about the expo until late game
Thanks kona. =D
I must have not been paying attention at that point, haha.
On July 30 2009 19:01 Trezeguet23 wrote: JD's scourge use was flawless. I take it back, it wasn't just the expansion that won him the game, but also his ability to keep the vessel count so low the whole game.
Must have learnt from sAviOr kekeke
I hope he's been watching old vods and taking notes.
Honestly, the hidden expo only made up for the BO disadvantage. Other than that Jaedong mostly outplayed Canata through a series of good flanks, well timed swarms, crazy vessel snipes, and Canata's own mistakes (12 rines with no medic heh).
On July 30 2009 19:01 ThePhan2m wrote: but jaedong played so sloppy this whole game. cant belive he got away with it
? Like his brilliant scourge play? I guess maybe if you are talking about how he couldn't get his regular 3rd or 4th for a bit, or how he lost control of his nat. for a sec. But still, he was on top of his game (I though).
On July 30 2009 19:01 ThePhan2m wrote: but jaedong played so sloppy this whole game. cant belive he got away with it
What game were you watching?
well jaedong lost a bunch of lurkers here and there. didn't matter that much because of the hidden expo but you don't see mistakes like that from jaedong too often
On July 30 2009 19:01 ThePhan2m wrote: but jaedong played so sloppy this whole game. cant belive he got away with it
What game were you watching?
Didnt you notice all those lurkers he lost, without any reason at all? it was 2-3 times during early game he just run them into rines and they died. Even his dark swarms were off several places. aswell as that hold postion lurker defense, just before canata scanned was failure in the sense that he could have killed so much more with it (put them loose earlier) but he waited 1 second too late. The fact that he got a way with it this game, was only cuz of the hidden expo. without it, I think he would have lost.
My stream skipped a little, but plague on Canata's forces! Canata can't take down the hatchery! He has more forces coming, but 4 lurks is pretty much unbreakable. Canata has like 5 vessels coming though. I don't see a nydus building for Jaedong.
Jaedong takes another game in dominating fashion, the lurker drop to open the game really blew it open and then his macro/tech advantage kept pulling him farther and farther ahead.
GG, if Jaedong comes out on top in 2 out of 3 events he is no1 PR. Events are today, Bo3 vsZero, and Oz vs CJ.
Watching Jaedong play vs SK is so fun, he is everywhere on the map, killing everything and reading his opponent as a book with savior maphax timings. His ZvT is truly out of this world.
On July 30 2009 19:25 hyde wrote: Oh man I am soooo glad I went over to my sisters place to use her internet (because I'm capped) to watch these games, they were so good!
On July 30 2009 19:26 On_Slaught wrote: He sniped so many vessels that game it was crazy.
Canata is just never able to get a grip on the game since he is never able to amass enough vessels to irradiate all of the lurkers. He is able to get the defilers for the most part, but that just isn't going to cut it vs JD.
On July 30 2009 19:25 hyde wrote: Oh man I am soooo glad I went over to my sisters place to use her internet (because I'm capped) to watch these games, they were so good!
im capped too :C
capped? common serioulsy you aren't using a monthly bandwidth limit thing??
On July 30 2009 19:25 hyde wrote: Oh man I am soooo glad I went over to my sisters place to use her internet (because I'm capped) to watch these games, they were so good!
im capped too :C
I'm sitting in the library at my university and the Wifi keeps disconnecting me almost constantly. T_T
On July 30 2009 19:25 hyde wrote: Oh man I am soooo glad I went over to my sisters place to use her internet (because I'm capped) to watch these games, they were so good!
im capped too :C
capped? common serioulsy you aren't using a monthly bandwidth limit thing??
im stuck with backwards ass australian internet :C
Canata need to learn to keep his vessels alive. Never getting them above numbers of 4-5 really hurts him, and sort of stops him from getting dropships since he needs the vessels more Of course Jaedongs godly play and perfect scourge play doesnt help him, but way to often he lose random vessels for no apparent reason.
On July 30 2009 19:25 hyde wrote: Oh man I am soooo glad I went over to my sisters place to use her internet (because I'm capped) to watch these games, they were so good!
im capped too :C
capped? common serioulsy you aren't using a monthly bandwidth limit thing??
On July 30 2009 19:31 Oystein wrote: Canata need to learn to keep his vessels alive. Never getting them above numbers of 4-5 really hurts him, and sort of stops him from getting dropships since he needs the vessels more Of course Jaedongs godly play and perfect scourge play doesnt help him, but way to often he lose random vessels for no apparent reason.
Agreed. Although Jaedong is awesome is scourge, many of those vessel picks were quite out in the open, and leaving your vessels open + Jaedong = fail.
I think *cap* on cable/adsl in switzerland died out about... 4-5 years ago (or longer, i think it never was huge except when cable was really *fresh*)? A cap would annoy me to no end.
On July 30 2009 19:31 Oystein wrote: Canata need to learn to keep his vessels alive. Never getting them above numbers of 4-5 really hurts him, and sort of stops him from getting dropships since he needs the vessels more Of course Jaedongs godly play and perfect scourge play doesnt help him, but way to often he lose random vessels for no apparent reason.
He loose them becouse he must kill jd expos, and it is hard to protect vessels with small force, he can't just wait, and gather troops.
On July 30 2009 19:33 Velr wrote: I think *cap* on cable/adsl in switzerland died out about... 4-5 years ago (or longer, i think it never was huge except when cable was really *fresh*)? A cap would annoy me to no end.
a 10 gigabyte cap is REALLY annoying (especially when you pay $60 aus a month for it.) I cant watch all the vods id like to :C
On July 30 2009 19:33 Velr wrote: I think *cap* on cable/adsl in switzerland died out about... 4-5 years ago (or longer, i think it never was huge except when cable was really *fresh*)? A cap would annoy me to no end.
a 10 gigabyte cap is REALLY annoying (especially when you pay $60 aus a month for it.) I cant watch all the vods id like to :C
Your getting ripped off big time, even for Australian standards
On July 30 2009 19:25 hyde wrote: Oh man I am soooo glad I went over to my sisters place to use her internet (because I'm capped) to watch these games, they were so good!
im capped too :C
capped? common serioulsy you aren't using a monthly bandwidth limit thing??
welcome to Australia
Thats so sad dude, really..
revolution go, srsly monthly-bandwidth-limit is the most turdidea ever ever to enter the internet (luckily it was a complete flop in norway)
On July 30 2009 19:33 Velr wrote: I think *cap* on cable/adsl in switzerland died out about... 4-5 years ago (or longer, i think it never was huge except when cable was really *fresh*)? A cap would annoy me to no end.
a 10 gigabyte cap is REALLY annoying (especially when you pay $60 aus a month for it.) I cant watch all the vods id like to :C
Your getting ripped off big time, even for Australian standards
not like it really matters, i get ripped off big time no matter what plan/isp i choose
On July 30 2009 19:31 Oystein wrote: Canata need to learn to keep his vessels alive. Never getting them above numbers of 4-5 really hurts him, and sort of stops him from getting dropships since he needs the vessels more Of course Jaedongs godly play and perfect scourge play doesnt help him, but way to often he lose random vessels for no apparent reason.
He loose them becouse he must kill jd expos, and it is hard to protect vessels with small force, he can't just wait, and gather troops.
Of course he is bound to lose vessels when he is keeping up the pressure, but like last game he sent 3 vessels on their own into the center and ended up losing 2 of them because he had no protection for them what so ever. Point was in both games he seemed to lose a lot of unnecessary vessels.
On July 30 2009 19:35 Samurai- wrote: Cap ? that exists today ? get the hell out of that country :D
im coming to slovenia
Slovenia is undergoing High-Speed Fiber-Optic reconstructure, so minimum here will be 10/10, and most will have 20 mega/bit lines ++++ .. for low price, around 20 euro..
edit: no caps oufcourse.. didnt know someone still have this..
On July 30 2009 19:35 Samurai- wrote: Cap ? that exists today ? get the hell out of that country :D
im coming to slovenia
Slovenia is undergoing High-Speed Fiber-Optic reconstructure, so minimum here will be 10/10, and most will have 20 mega/bit lines ++++ .. for low price, around 20 euro..
edit: no caps oufcourse.. didnt know someone still have this..
Australia is also planning a fiber-optic reconstruction for 95% of our population. Not sure on the caps though, better not be any. and theres the issue of how long its going to take to implement
Bunker rush --> fact puts JD in a bad position methinks. Simply because he lost a few drones and built a lot of Zerglings instead of drones to counter the bunker rush. That and he cancelled a creep which loses minerals, then all the lost mining time. But we'll see.
Jaedong has about 6 lings at top right. No drone to mine out the minerals or anything though.
Hydralisk den going up for Jaedong as the first wraith is building. Canata will only get 1 or 2 OLs at most. Jaedong has grouped his OL together at his natural and is morphing lair.
On July 30 2009 19:43 Trezeguet23 wrote: I wonder if canata planned for hours to defend muta from JD, and now JD is going lurker ling like it is the only build.
On July 30 2009 19:35 Samurai- wrote: Cap ? that exists today ? get the hell out of that country :D
im coming to slovenia
Slovenia is undergoing High-Speed Fiber-Optic reconstructure, so minimum here will be 10/10, and most will have 20 mega/bit lines ++++ .. for low price, around 20 euro..
edit: no caps oufcourse.. didnt know someone still have this..
Australia is also planning a fiber-optic reconstruction for 95% of our population. Not sure on the caps though, better not be any. and theres the issue of how long its going to take to implement
i think the new broadband thingy is gonna take 8 years to complete so i have no idea about the fiber
On July 30 2009 19:35 Samurai- wrote: Cap ? that exists today ? get the hell out of that country :D
im coming to slovenia
Slovenia is undergoing High-Speed Fiber-Optic reconstructure, so minimum here will be 10/10, and most will have 20 mega/bit lines ++++ .. for low price, around 20 euro..
edit: no caps oufcourse.. didnt know someone still have this..
Australia is also planning a fiber-optic reconstruction for 95% of our population. Not sure on the caps though, better not be any. and theres the issue of how long its going to take to implement
i think the new broadband thingy is gonna take 8 years to complete so i have no idea about the fiber
plus, considering how overpriced cable/dsl2 is already, man its gonna cost a fortune for it
On July 30 2009 19:35 Samurai- wrote: Cap ? that exists today ? get the hell out of that country :D
im coming to slovenia
Slovenia is undergoing High-Speed Fiber-Optic reconstructure, so minimum here will be 10/10, and most will have 20 mega/bit lines ++++ .. for low price, around 20 euro..
edit: no caps oufcourse.. didnt know someone still have this..
Australia is also planning a fiber-optic reconstruction for 95% of our population. Not sure on the caps though, better not be any. and theres the issue of how long its going to take to implement
i think the new broadband thingy is gonna take 8 years to complete so i have no idea about the fiber
plus, considering how overpriced cable/dsl2 is already, man its gonna cost a fortune for it
reading LRs just isn't the same (I'm capped too)
Well, cable/adsl here costs way more then optic so..
On July 30 2009 19:35 Samurai- wrote: Cap ? that exists today ? get the hell out of that country :D
im coming to slovenia
Slovenia is undergoing High-Speed Fiber-Optic reconstructure, so minimum here will be 10/10, and most will have 20 mega/bit lines ++++ .. for low price, around 20 euro..
edit: no caps oufcourse.. didnt know someone still have this..
Australia is also planning a fiber-optic reconstruction for 95% of our population. Not sure on the caps though, better not be any. and theres the issue of how long its going to take to implement
i think the new broadband thingy is gonna take 8 years to complete so i have no idea about the fiber
plus, considering how overpriced cable/dsl2 is already, man its gonna cost a fortune for it
reading LRs just isn't the same (I'm capped too)
Well, cable/adsl here costs way more then optic so..
optics costs a lot to install but not a lot to run.
I bet Jaedong was practicing to verse Canatas predictable mech while Canata was practicing against Jaedongs predictable mutas. They both got a shock this series haha
Even though the canata bandwagon has annoyed me, he has played well to go 2-2, and possibly 3-2 vs jaedong, along with being in the OSL. Hope he does well for himself .
canata was |-| that close to taking a bo5 off jaedong it seems though that jaedong is weak at the moment, i wouldn't be surprised if he drops a game this weekend against CJ.
Impressive bo5. I think it was made more even because of canata only practicing for this and jaedong having multiple other events to practice for. Also they are both very good at tvz/zvt.
On July 30 2009 20:02 Jumperer wrote: I was about to make "Canata for Bonjwa" thread,
hahahaha, I laughed.
I wanted Jaedong to win, but still like Canata.
Not to mention, fuck, he came one game away from beating Jaedong in a BEST OF FIVE. That's impressive in its own right. Granted Jaedong has a lot to practice for, I'm guessing he didn't take these games lightly. It's damn OSL.
canata was |-| that close to taking a bo5 off jaedong it seems though that jaedong is weak at the moment, i wouldn't be surprised if he drops a game this weekend against CJ.
Me neither, after having to play 2 BoX's agaisnt different races the 2 days before.
oh wow being greedy about wanting to kill that overlord really cost him the game, otherwise he would've been in a pretty decent position for the mid game. Interesting series
On July 30 2009 20:08 On_Slaught wrote: JD had some awesome builds and strats today. So suprising to see him win a bo5 in ZvT with mutalisks being a complete non-factor!
My uusee died in the middle of game 5...right after Jaedong was being aggressive with his initial lings. Now I have to wait several hours for vods to see how jaedong won : (
On July 30 2009 20:04 Sunyveil wrote: hay look a free overlord
ZOMG UR UNITZ DIE
Brilliant summary of game 5.
"IT'S A TRAP!!"
How awesome would that be if Jaedong orchestrated that whole sequence to bait out the marines for his push, and wasn't just reacting to an opportunity Canata gave him.
On July 30 2009 20:04 Sunyveil wrote: hay look a free overlord
ZOMG UR UNITZ DIE
Brilliant summary of game 5.
"IT'S A TRAP!!"
How awesome would that be if Jaedong orchestrated that whole sequence to bait out the marines for his push, and wasn't just reacting to an opportunity Canata gave him.
it was planned
he had his zerglings out in the middle of the map and he researched speed, and he kept them from canata's view
canata had walled; there was no way jaedong was going to break the ramp with just speedlings
On July 30 2009 20:04 Sunyveil wrote: hay look a free overlord
ZOMG UR UNITZ DIE
Brilliant summary of game 5.
"IT'S A TRAP!!"
How awesome would that be if Jaedong orchestrated that whole sequence to bait out the marines for his push, and wasn't just reacting to an opportunity Canata gave him.
it was planned
he had his zerglings out in the middle of the map and he researched speed, and he kept them from canata's view
canata had walled; there was no way jaedong was going to break the ramp with just speedlings
On July 30 2009 20:04 Sunyveil wrote: hay look a free overlord
ZOMG UR UNITZ DIE
Brilliant summary of game 5.
"IT'S A TRAP!!"
How awesome would that be if Jaedong orchestrated that whole sequence to bait out the marines for his push, and wasn't just reacting to an opportunity Canata gave him.
it was planned
he had his zerglings out in the middle of the map and he researched speed, and he kept them from canata's view
canata had walled; there was no way jaedong was going to break the ramp with just speedlings
Yeah, it really isn't unlike Jaedong to plan something like this in the final game of a Bo5. Which is why he's so awesome ^_^
What do the boxes in the last 10 games represent? Some players have more boxes above their names. I've always thought it was something to do with their skill/ranking
For somereason i can't get it in my head that effort is good, when BiSu owned him on heartbreak in proleague during his streak i just decided that jaedong bisu and flash were levels above him.
On July 30 2009 20:17 GhostKorean wrote: What do the boxes in the last 10 games represent? Some players have more boxes above their names. I've always thought it was something to do with their skill/ranking
4 red bars represents that the player he played against was really strong and high ranked. And vice versa.
On July 30 2009 20:04 Sunyveil wrote: hay look a free overlord
ZOMG UR UNITZ DIE
Brilliant summary of game 5.
"IT'S A TRAP!!"
How awesome would that be if Jaedong orchestrated that whole sequence to bait out the marines for his push, and wasn't just reacting to an opportunity Canata gave him.
it was planned
he had his zerglings out in the middle of the map and he researched speed, and he kept them from canata's view
canata had walled; there was no way jaedong was going to break the ramp with just speedlings
Yeah, it really isn't unlike Jaedong to plan something like this in the final game of a Bo5. Which is why he's so awesome ^_^
well I mean, he adapted to the situation
he saw the wraith out, and he had his overlord floating around an area where it would probably be picked off by the wraith, so he moved into position to trap canata
good heavens I don't think he would have had that as his game plan
On July 30 2009 20:25 tobi9999 wrote: sigh, efforts ZvZ is so good, but it doesn't have the aura of invincibility that jaedong's has. + i think it's pretty inconsistant
You couldn't have described it any better than that.
Oh jesus christ. It's pretty hard to play mind games against Calm as he does the same shit over and over again, or he's a mindgame genius. Your choice.
On July 30 2009 20:36 Naib wrote: Oh jesus christ. It's pretty hard to play mind games against Calm as he does the same shit over and over again, or he's a mindgame genius. Your choice.
Effort fail hard. He's now out of every ind league (lol at everyone who's sucked his dick recently and for how cocky he's been with what he said tonight and the thumbs down during hte PL).
JD v Calm might be more interesting than I thought it could be. But then again, effort losing 2 games in less than 15min was more fail on his part than win on Calms. JD could just stomp all over Calm. We'll see.
BTW. KONADORA PLEASE DO NOT PICK BISU TO WIN. YOU HAVE THE TOUCH OF DEATH.
I love how people are shitting over Calm for this when Effort beat Jaedong in the same way with noone complaining. Go Jaedong for MSL/OSL and become the greatest undisputed Zerg of all time.
On July 30 2009 20:44 samachking wrote: I love how people are shitting over Calm for this when Effort beat Jaedong in the same way with noone complaining. Go Jaedong for MSL/OSL and become the greatest undisputed Zerg of all time.
Yeah that's because Effort has waaay more fans than Jaedong..... wtf nobody is "shitting over" calm
On July 30 2009 20:44 samachking wrote: I love how people are shitting over Calm for this when Effort beat Jaedong in the same way with noone complaining. Go Jaedong for MSL/OSL and become the greatest undisputed Zerg of all time.
We're shitting over this match because EffOrt freaking 12 Hatched every game. Pure build order loss. Such a disappointment.
On July 30 2009 20:44 samachking wrote: I love how people are shitting over Calm for this when Effort beat Jaedong in the same way with noone complaining. Go Jaedong for MSL/OSL and become the greatest undisputed Zerg of all time.
Jaedong never lost to Effort wile going 12 hatch, twice in row... if you are talking about GOM+ Show Spoiler +
1 game Jaedong went 12hatch Effort went 9 pool, other game Jaedong with 9 pool, Effort went 12 hatch.
On July 30 2009 20:44 samachking wrote: I love how people are shitting over Calm for this when Effort beat Jaedong in the same way with noone complaining. Go Jaedong for MSL/OSL and become the greatest undisputed Zerg of all time.
Jaedong never lost to Effort wile going 12 hatch, twice in row... if you are talking about GOM+ Show Spoiler +
1 game Jaedong went 12hatch Effort went 9 pool, other game Jaedong with 9 pool, Effort went 12 hatch.
I saw the games. You have them mixed, game 1 JD goes 9pool lair with expo while pumping drones, effort defends vs the lings and rolls him over with superior ling army as he didnt fall for the ling backstab and kept pumping lings, game 2 is a bo loss where JD goes 12hat and Effort goes 9pool speed.
On July 30 2009 20:44 samachking wrote: I love how people are shitting over Calm for this when Effort beat Jaedong in the same way with noone complaining. Go Jaedong for MSL/OSL and become the greatest undisputed Zerg of all time.
Jaedong never lost to Effort wile going 12 hatch, twice in row... if you are talking about GOM+ Show Spoiler +
1 game Jaedong went 12hatch Effort went 9 pool, other game Jaedong with 9 pool, Effort went 12 hatch.
So, we now have a ZvZ Semi which is very good for Jaedong. Plus, a Z vs P or T on the other side of the bracket and Kwanro Zero have great chances against Bisu or Iris. So this is looking very good for Jaedong: a ZvZ Semi and perhaps a ZvZ Finals... Maybe Jaedong vs Bisu won't happen again after all.
Wouldn't it be horrible if Iris beat Bisu and Kwanro beat Zero(assuming JD beats Calm)? Then Kwanro could beat Iris with some allins and we'd have the biggest destruction in the history of finals in our hands.
ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
Well the thing with Yarnc is that his ZvT is amazing but other MUs... not so. Especially his ZvP is extremely lackluster. Calm is also kind of a ZvT player. I believe that Effort is the second-most well-rounded in every MU. Zero is up there as well, but he's way too inconsistant. Jaedong is still clearly the best, most consistant Zerg, with no weak MUs and only tiny "slumps" that never last for longer than a week or two.
On July 30 2009 20:40 JohnBall wrote: That was such an awesome zvz series! Calm really predicted Effort very well! GG's
Sarcasm doesn't work well over the interwebs.
There is no sarcrasm in my post. I really think Calm read Effort perfectly.
Calm didn't read shit. He went 9 pool, got lucky in scouting(second game), and won with BO.
Ah and you think that he threw dice to decide which BO he was gonna go for? There's a lot of mindgames involved in a BO5, effort didn't think he would go for a 9 pool twice in a row, and didn't want to go 12pool only to have calm go for 12 hatch, calm anticipated that and went for 9 pool again.
Plus it's not like effort 12 hatch vs 9pool is 100% autoloss, watch great vs effort a few days ago, jaedong for example says he never loses to 9 pool in practice
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
Well the thing with Yarnc is that his ZvT is amazing but other MUs... not so. Especially his ZvP is extremely lackluster. Calm is also kind of a ZvT player. I believe that Effort is the second-most well-rounded in every MU. Zero is up there as well, but he's way too inconsistant. Jaedong is still clearly the best, most consistant Zerg, with no weak MUs and only tiny "slumps" that never last for longer than a week or two.
yellow arnc is VERY good at zvz . he won effort at PL playoffs and should have won again in super ACE . he just felt down under pressure , effort didnt . yellow arnc has now some of best zvz . there is a lot potential of best zvz with jaedong . i can give you yellow arnc , effort , calm , zero and hyvaa . and i think i can talk obout oversky in top zvz . and savior is getting very good in zvz lately . i think he can back . only jaedong is a step higher than the others .
and about effort 2nd zerg , yellow arnc is cleary better than him in zvt , we can't say effort is better in zvz than the others , and i think Zero has better zvp now than effort . so what does effort have ? only consitant maybe .
On July 30 2009 20:40 JohnBall wrote: That was such an awesome zvz series! Calm really predicted Effort very well! GG's
Sarcasm doesn't work well over the interwebs.
There is no sarcrasm in my post. I really think Calm read Effort perfectly.
Calm didn't read shit. He went 9 pool, got lucky in scouting(second game), and won with BO.
Ah and you think that he threw dice to decide which BO he was gonna go for? There's a lot of mindgames involved in a BO5, effort didn't think he would go for a 9 pool twice in a row, and didn't want to go 12pool only to have calm go for 12 hatch, calm anticipated that and went for 9 pool again.
Plus it's not like effort 12 hatch vs 9pool is 100% autoloss, watch great vs effort a few days ago, jaedong for example says he never loses to 9 pool in practice
Well, it really doesn't say anything if Jaedong can beat ggaemo 12h vs 9pool. And what do you think would have happened if Great had targeted the drones instead of the hatchery? Or even ran into the main instead of pecking away at the nat hatch?
On July 30 2009 21:28 Geo.Rion wrote: Is this the worst prediction ever? + Show Spoiler +
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
Well the thing with Yarnc is that his ZvT is amazing but other MUs... not so. Especially his ZvP is extremely lackluster. Calm is also kind of a ZvT player. I believe that Effort is the second-most well-rounded in every MU. Zero is up there as well, but he's way too inconsistant. Jaedong is still clearly the best, most consistant Zerg, with no weak MUs and only tiny "slumps" that never last for longer than a week or two.
yellow arnc is VERY good at zvz . he won effort at PL playoffs and should have won again in super ACE . he just felt down under pressure , effort didnt . yellow arnc has now some of best zvz . there is a lot potential of best zvz with jaedong . i can give you yellow arnc , effort , calm , zero and hyvaa . and i think i can talk obout oversky in top zvz . and savior is getting very good in zvz lately . i think he can back . only jaedong is a step higher than the others .
and about effort 2nd zerg , yellow arnc is cleary better than him in zvt , we can't say effort is better in zvz than the others , and i think Zero has better zvp now than effort . so what does effort have ? only consitant maybe .
All these top zvz players you talk about are inconsistant and about 50% lifetime. No thank you. Yarnc's problem isn't zvz, it's his zvp. Savior getting very good at zvz? Okay, you just lost all of your credibility.
On July 30 2009 21:46 tobi9999 wrote: Konadora, how can you watch so much progaming, browse through the forums so much, and suck at predictions this bad
you predicted that JAEDONG WOULD LOSE,(WTF??!??!?!) and you predicted that EFFORT would win RIGHT AFTER HE JUST LOST 3-0 to Iris in GOM.(uh,...)
i'm almost starting to think that you're messing up on purpose
Effort was the shoe in to win the series, considering his lately masterful ZvZ against both Jaedong and Yarnc, pretty much tying his recent record against both of them.
On July 30 2009 21:46 tobi9999 wrote: Konadora, how can you watch so much progaming, browse through the forums so much, and suck at predictions this bad
you predicted that JAEDONG WOULD LOSE,(WTF??!??!?!) and you predicted that EFFORT would win RIGHT AFTER HE JUST LOST 3-0 to Iris in GOM.(uh,...)
i'm almost starting to think that you're messing up on purpose
effort was the favorite against calm
and effort lost to iris in gom because gom is 4th in priorities and proleague is first. they JUST came off playing proleague day 2 vs khan and they had one hour before gom started. iris had the luxury of practicing for gom, while effort had to practice zvz and zvp because it was inevitable that if it got to ace and super ace, he would definitely come out twice.
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
Well the thing with Yarnc is that his ZvT is amazing but other MUs... not so. Especially his ZvP is extremely lackluster. Calm is also kind of a ZvT player. I believe that Effort is the second-most well-rounded in every MU. Zero is up there as well, but he's way too inconsistant. Jaedong is still clearly the best, most consistant Zerg, with no weak MUs and only tiny "slumps" that never last for longer than a week or two.
yellow arnc is VERY good at zvz . he won effort at PL playoffs and should have won again in super ACE . he just felt down under pressure , effort didnt . yellow arnc has now some of best zvz . there is a lot potential of best zvz with jaedong . i can give you yellow arnc , effort , calm , zero and hyvaa . and i think i can talk obout oversky in top zvz . and savior is getting very good in zvz lately . i think he can back . only jaedong is a step higher than the others .
and about effort 2nd zerg , yellow arnc is cleary better than him in zvt , we can't say effort is better in zvz than the others , and i think Zero has better zvp now than effort . so what does effort have ? only consitant maybe .
All these top zvz players you talk about are inconsistant and about 50% lifetime. No thank you. Yarnc's problem isn't zvz, it's his zvp. Savior getting very good at zvz? Okay, you just lost all of your credibility.
and where have you seen effort has always been good in zvz ? he just improved in zvz recently to reach the top . but just 3 month ago , the best zvz with jaedong was not effort at all . i remember hyvaa , oversky , yellow arnc and Zero the top zvz . in zvt effort is not the best , in zvz effort is not even the 2nd best and in zvp effort is not the best . so why do u think he is 2nd plz ?
and about savior my dear , as much as im not so fan of him , i can cleary see he is getting very good lately . even if he only lose , he is getting really better . vs canata MSL vs type b PL playoffs , he was really good . and he should have won this two games in my opinion . savior lost an early hatchery vs canata , but he still making the game great and long . he crushed everybody in heritage league , and with scary easiness . i think savior can really back , and i think he can reach the top zvz really soon .
being the best in some mu or being better than an other player doesnt mean u win more . its not all about the results . if we care only the results , we could say many stupid things .
let me remember you that the biggest legend of starcraft is a player who have shown many less results than many other legends . its not all about the results .
On July 30 2009 21:46 tobi9999 wrote: Konadora, how can you watch so much progaming, browse through the forums so much, and suck at predictions this bad
you predicted that JAEDONG WOULD LOSE,(WTF??!??!?!) and you predicted that EFFORT would win RIGHT AFTER HE JUST LOST 3-0 to Iris in GOM.(uh,...)
i'm almost starting to think that you're messing up on purpose
lol well since you haven't been around for a while.
On July 30 2009 22:13 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think that was the point of his post, Storr. Kona messe sup preds so much it's almost like he's trying to mess up.
See quote below
On July 30 2009 22:15 NovaTheFeared wrote: The Konadora curse strikes with a vengeance yet again.
On July 30 2009 21:46 tobi9999 wrote: Konadora, how can you watch so much progaming, browse through the forums so much, and suck at predictions this bad
you predicted that JAEDONG WOULD LOSE,(WTF??!??!?!) and you predicted that EFFORT would win RIGHT AFTER HE JUST LOST 3-0 to Iris in GOM.(uh,...)
i'm almost starting to think that you're messing up on purpose
Canata almost defeated Jaedong except he played stupidly greedy in the last set and you know it
As for EffOrt vs Calm, all I can say is lol
stupid zvz
but i honestly didnt think my curse would strike today
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
Well the thing with Yarnc is that his ZvT is amazing but other MUs... not so. Especially his ZvP is extremely lackluster. Calm is also kind of a ZvT player. I believe that Effort is the second-most well-rounded in every MU. Zero is up there as well, but he's way too inconsistant. Jaedong is still clearly the best, most consistant Zerg, with no weak MUs and only tiny "slumps" that never last for longer than a week or two.
yellow arnc is VERY good at zvz . he won effort at PL playoffs and should have won again in super ACE . he just felt down under pressure , effort didnt . yellow arnc has now some of best zvz . there is a lot potential of best zvz with jaedong . i can give you yellow arnc , effort , calm , zero and hyvaa . and i think i can talk obout oversky in top zvz . and savior is getting very good in zvz lately . i think he can back . only jaedong is a step higher than the others .
and about effort 2nd zerg , yellow arnc is cleary better than him in zvt , we can't say effort is better in zvz than the others , and i think Zero has better zvp now than effort . so what does effort have ? only consitant maybe .
All these top zvz players you talk about are inconsistant and about 50% lifetime. No thank you. Yarnc's problem isn't zvz, it's his zvp. Savior getting very good at zvz? Okay, you just lost all of your credibility.
and where have you seen effort has always been good in zvz ? he just improved in zvz recently to reach the top . but just 3 month ago , the best zvz with jaedong was not effort at all . i remember hyvaa , oversky , yellow arnc and Zero the top zvz . in zvt effort is not the best , in zvz effort is not even the 2nd best and in zvp effort is not the best . so why do u think he is 2nd plz ?
and about savior my dear , as much as im not so fan of him , i can cleary see he is getting very good lately . even if he only lose , he is getting really better . vs canata MSL vs type b PL playoffs , he was really good . and he should have won this two games in my opinion . savior lost an early hatchery vs canata , but he still making the game great and long . he crushed everybody in heritage league , and with scary easiness . i think savior can really back , and i think he can reach the top zvz really soon .
being the best in some mu or being better than an other player doesnt mean u win more . its not all about the results . if we care only the results , we could say many stupid things .
let me remember you that the biggest legend of starcraft is a player who have shown many less results than many other legends . its not all about the results .
Oh yeah, also. I think he's second-best because he doesn't suck at any MU. I don't care if yarnc has the best zvt in the world when his zvz is above average and his zvp is horrible. I don't care if July is the best zvp in the world if his zvt and zvz can't win against even the worst of a-class players.
-_- Savior can reach the top zvz really soon? He has NEVER been good at zvz, have you SEEN his recent zvzs? His muta-v-scourge micro is b-teamer level.
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ok now who think here effort is the "no doubt" 2nd Zerg ? i think now people will think harder now before autoproclame their idol "no doubt 2nd zerg" . my favourites zerg after jaedong are calm and yellow arnc , but im still thinking calm is NOT better than effort . effort calm or yellow arnc have a LOT to prove before being proclame best Z with jaedong . starcraft is not about a few games . remember that .
Well the thing with Yarnc is that his ZvT is amazing but other MUs... not so. Especially his ZvP is extremely lackluster. Calm is also kind of a ZvT player. I believe that Effort is the second-most well-rounded in every MU. Zero is up there as well, but he's way too inconsistant. Jaedong is still clearly the best, most consistant Zerg, with no weak MUs and only tiny "slumps" that never last for longer than a week or two.
yellow arnc is VERY good at zvz . he won effort at PL playoffs and should have won again in super ACE . he just felt down under pressure , effort didnt . yellow arnc has now some of best zvz . there is a lot potential of best zvz with jaedong . i can give you yellow arnc , effort , calm , zero and hyvaa . and i think i can talk obout oversky in top zvz . and savior is getting very good in zvz lately . i think he can back . only jaedong is a step higher than the others .
and about effort 2nd zerg , yellow arnc is cleary better than him in zvt , we can't say effort is better in zvz than the others , and i think Zero has better zvp now than effort . so what does effort have ? only consitant maybe .
All these top zvz players you talk about are inconsistant and about 50% lifetime. No thank you. Yarnc's problem isn't zvz, it's his zvp. Savior getting very good at zvz? Okay, you just lost all of your credibility.
and where have you seen effort has always been good in zvz ? he just improved in zvz recently to reach the top . but just 3 month ago , the best zvz with jaedong was not effort at all . i remember hyvaa , oversky , yellow arnc and Zero the top zvz . in zvt effort is not the best , in zvz effort is not even the 2nd best and in zvp effort is not the best . so why do u think he is 2nd plz ?
and about savior my dear , as much as im not so fan of him , i can cleary see he is getting very good lately . even if he only lose , he is getting really better . vs canata MSL vs type b PL playoffs , he was really good . and he should have won this two games in my opinion . savior lost an early hatchery vs canata , but he still making the game great and long . he crushed everybody in heritage league , and with scary easiness . i think savior can really back , and i think he can reach the top zvz really soon .
being the best in some mu or being better than an other player doesnt mean u win more . its not all about the results . if we care only the results , we could say many stupid things .
let me remember you that the biggest legend of starcraft is a player who have shown many less results than many other legends . its not all about the results .
Oh yeah, also. I think he's second-best because he doesn't suck at any MU. I don't care if yarnc has the best zvt in the world when his zvz is above average and his zvp is horrible. I don't care if July is the best zvp in the world if his zvt and zvz can't win against even the worst of a-class players.
-_- Savior can reach the top zvz really soon? He has NEVER been good at zvz, have you SEEN his recent zvzs? His muta-v-scourge micro is b-teamer level.
you are going more and more pathetic . yellow arnc has a zvz at least same as effort , maybe better . i really dont see why u see effort so good at zvz . i repeat it again , its not because he win more zvz than any player that we could say him to be better zvz . i dont watch the results only to see who has the best zvz . ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE RESULTS . my god where are you from ? effort has NOT the best zvt NOT the best zvp and NOT the 2nd best zvz . how the fuck can you think so well of him ? he is just very good player with others . he is not alone to want the rival jaedong sit , he is i think more consistant than yellow arnc or zero , i give you that . and one more thing , zvz is improving lately , so level is higher and being top 1 in zvz is getting harder and harder . one day we see effort losing 3 0 to calm , and the next day we can see effort winning jaedong 2 0 . ( in GOMTV , the less important league in korea , where SKT didnt played , where there was many jokes results ) . i repeat you effort is NOT the 2nd zerg in korea . calm can be . zero can be . yellow arnc can be now .
savior had a poor zvz in his early days , but at the end of his career , he was very good at it . his most recent zvz are not effort or calm level , but they are showing he is coming back without doubt .
how can you be so sure effort is the 2nd Z in korea after seeing him lose 0 3 to calm and 0 3 to iris . yellow arnc did 1 1 in playoffs vs him (awesome zvzs i can say ) . effort is OUT of OSL ( losing to flash and jaedong ) . OUT of MSL ( losing to calm ) and OUT of gomTV ( losing to iris ). HOW CAN U BE SO PROUD OF HIM .
i prefere a lot more calm , zero and yellow arnc than effort , but i would never say they are the " no doubt" 2nd Z in korea . but you would about effort . you are just pathetic .
WHAT THE FUCK. calm what the fuck. i gotta watch these games. he beat fucking effort at his best matchup. dude effort's practicing too much for proleague. he's gotta practice for other stuff too.
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE RESULTS .
Dude, it's his opinion chill out.
Applying the same logic, seeing him lose 0-3 doesn't mean anything because those are just results like you said.
A counter argument (that I think is true) would be that Coach Cho told Effort how important PL is and he's doing everything he can to carry his team to win PL while sacrificing his individuals. It might not be true, but god man, chill out.
Kinda contradictory how it's pointed out that "ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE RESULTS" and then followed up by the fact that EffOrt is out of all the individual leagues. Regardless, he's hell of a lot more solid than most Zs out there and a case sure as hell can be made for him being the next best Z after Jaedong.
On July 30 2009 21:06 vaMpYr wrote: ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE RESULTS .
Dude, it's his opinion chill out.
Applying the same logic, seeing him lose 0-3 doesn't mean anything because those are just results like you said.
A counter argument (that I think is true) would be that Coach Cho told Effort how important PL is and he's doing everything he can to carry his team to win PL while sacrificing his individuals. It might not be true, but god man, chill out.
yes its exactly what i said , calm winning 3 0 effort doesnt mean calm > effort . im not subjective about the results or the games like too many people outside korea . ( korean are not )
boxer is the most respected and favourite progamer of all time , he has never been the best . never .
about your coach thing , i am really agree with you , proleague is now really more important than the individuals . it was not 2 years ago . now many progamers saying they fight only for their teams . so yes effort is really in the top Zerg with the proleague , but he is not the only one . calm has better stats in proleague than effort .
one thing makes me believe effort is a potential 2nd Z , without that , i would think calm and yellow arnc are better ( zero sucks in proleague , so i dont wanna talk about him ) . in the super ACE between yellow arnc and effort , the pressure was at maximum , it was ONE game for advances in the most important league of all time , the 08 09 proleague . and more than that , it was a zvz , the most pressured match up . yellow arnc felt down under pressure when he had a clear advantage , effort did not felt down , he did well , he played well , as well as yellow arnc , but he played with more confidence and relax . that is the thing of a great champion .
this is the only thing why i respect effort now as a very good player . but i really dont like so much his playstyle . he remind me luxury , who i used to hate so much ( hes dead now :p )
Boxer took an absolute record at KeSPA rating — on Dec 2002 (!) he received 2398 Points. (The next absolute record was by Jaedong on Mar 2008 — after 5 more years.)
boxer has yes 1# kespa for some time , won SL and many finales ect ect . but he has never been respected as the best player around . nada was , iloveoov was , savior was . but boxer was not . he always sucked in tvp , lost many games in important cases , and had negative record vs many players . he is respected as the greatest starcrat player in history because he was the most creative , the most spectacular ( his micro .. ) , and the most intelligent . he has invented maybe 50% of starcraft and 70% of the terran race . without boxer , starcraft would not be as we see it now . results is not all to be the greatest player .
On July 31 2009 00:41 vaMpYr wrote: boxer has yes 1# kespa for some time , won SL and many finales ect ect . but he has never been respected as the best player around . nada was , iloveoov was , savior was . but boxer was not . he always sucked in tvp , lost many games in important cases , and had negative record vs many players . he is respected as the greatest starcrat player in history because he was the most creative , the most spectacular ( his micro .. ) , and the most intelligent . he has invented maybe 50% of starcraft and 70% of the terran race . without boxer , starcraft would not be as we see it now . results is not all to be the greatest player .
What the fuck lol.
Nada didn't win anything when Boxer was at his peak of dominance. Boxer TAUGHT Iloveoov. Savior is practically a newfag compared to Boxer.
Back when Boxer was dominating, yeah, he was dominating. He was definitely the best around in his day...
being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
On July 31 2009 00:41 vaMpYr wrote: boxer has yes 1# kespa for some time , won SL and many finales ect ect . but he has never been respected as the best player around . nada was , iloveoov was , savior was . but boxer was not . he always sucked in tvp , lost many games in important cases , and had negative record vs many players . he is respected as the greatest starcrat player in history because he was the most creative , the most spectacular ( his micro .. ) , and the most intelligent . he has invented maybe 50% of starcraft and 70% of the terran race . without boxer , starcraft would not be as we see it now . results is not all to be the greatest player .
please do not post false information.
The bonjwa line starts with BoxeR. You are talking about 2002-era, where his TvP started to fall and NaDa began taking over the scene. Pre-2002 BoxeR was indeed THE dominant player. He was the original creater of dropship micro. All the thigns Fantasy and Leta do so well now, (dropship, vultures) BoxeR began way back then. The metagame changed to much more macro heavy, which is why he started to losing a lot of TvP's, but until then his micro-heavy timing push style was unstoppable for many good progamers. Now the metagame changed to mix in both elements.
On July 31 2009 00:51 vaMpYr wrote: being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
On July 31 2009 00:51 vaMpYr wrote: being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
Then clearly, you haven't paid any attention to the pro-scene in 2001. I don't think I even knew what Starcraft was back then and even I know Boxer was respected as the best back then. Coming on TL and trying to impose your "facts" on everyone else isn't the way to go.
P.S. Sorry if English isn't your first language but please, please, capitalize...
Wait, so if the semifinals is JD vs Calm, which we can assume JD will win, then we might possibly be a lot closer to the dream finals of JD vs Bisu right? If Bisu takes down Iris, I'm sure he can take down Zero / Kwanro
As others have noted, Boxer was the first bonjwa but.. ...what I think vaMpYr is trying to say (or at least what I'll say) is that ever since the fall of sAviOr, there has been quite a bit of parity in pro-starcraft. Now currently, the great players aren't #1 on the PR every month, or winners of back-to-back-to-back starleagues. That really doesn't happen anymore, because there are more players with good macro, mechanical skill, and game sense than ever before. Obviously, Bisu holds the highest ELO of all time, and he and Jaedong have been on the power rankings (in the top 5 too, I looked this up once but I've forgotten the exact numbers) consecutively for years now. The standards of dominance are now different. That said, the best players right now would (and sometimes do) demolish any great player of the past.
***
As for EffOrt, I think his skill with the 12 hatch reached its peak against great when he was able to successfully defeat the hard counter to his build. If EffOrt was able to succeed with his 12 hatches against Calm, that is to say he would have made the 12 hatch a safe strategy, then we might have seen a fundamental reordering of ZvZ. However, as Calm showed (and he is up there with YellOw[ArnC] as the third best zerg) a competent, well-informed zerg player can punish the 12 hatch, at least on certain maps. This sets up interesting mind-games against Jaedong, because EffOrt may have to rethink his ZvZ, or he may just go with the 12 hatch, assuming Jaedong will expect a change.
On July 30 2009 20:38 arbiter_md wrote: Effort > Jaedon 2-0 Calm > Effort 3-0 Calm vs Jaedong - ? What Jaedong can do?
Kill him, just like Jaedong does to any other Zerg.
Jaedong's 0-2 vs. Effort came at the end of a grueling 2 weeks with an average of almost 1 game a day. Jaedong had a lot of different matchups to practice for and was exhausted by the end of those hell weeks.
Effort, on the other hand, has nothing but ZvZ for the next few days. His ZvZ vs. July in GOM, his (possibly many) ZvZ vs. Jaedong and ggaemo in the PL. And this ZvZ series.
Being beaten 2-0 after weeks of unending play is one thing. Being beaten 3-0 when that matchup is the only one you have to practice is another.
On July 31 2009 00:41 vaMpYr wrote: boxer has yes 1# kespa for some time , won SL and many finales ect ect . but he has never been respected as the best player around . nada was , iloveoov was , savior was . but boxer was not . he always sucked in tvp , lost many games in important cases , and had negative record vs many players . he is respected as the greatest starcrat player in history because he was the most creative , the most spectacular ( his micro .. ) , and the most intelligent . he has invented maybe 50% of starcraft and 70% of the terran race . without boxer , starcraft would not be as we see it now . results is not all to be the greatest player .
Hi. Why is it that you only have 10 posts, but recently every time I have read a post and thought "Wow, this is so wrong", it has been you posting? Boxer was respected as the #1 for like 2 or 3 years, as the first Bonjwa.
On July 31 2009 00:41 vaMpYr wrote: boxer has yes 1# kespa for some time , won SL and many finales ect ect . but he has never been respected as the best player around . nada was , iloveoov was , savior was . but boxer was not . he always sucked in tvp , lost many games in important cases , and had negative record vs many players . he is respected as the greatest starcrat player in history because he was the most creative , the most spectacular ( his micro .. ) , and the most intelligent . he has invented maybe 50% of starcraft and 70% of the terran race . without boxer , starcraft would not be as we see it now . results is not all to be the greatest player .
thats disgustingly incorrect....especially that you are taking a shot at boxers tvp. The guy didnt even play a tvt until like, 2002? He won all his first tournys on his tvz and tvp play...his entire bonjwa reign was made on the back of his tvp.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
Hey, he's not right, but if you're a really good player, people will be overcritical of you if you start losing. Like the whole "lose-2-games JD is slumping" deal? It's like that. You should take it as a compliment.
On July 31 2009 07:11 Avidkeystamper wrote: Hey, he's not right, but if you're a really good player, people will be overcritical of you if you start losing. Like the whole "lose-2-games JD is slumping" deal? It's like that. You should take it as a compliment.
No he's completely correct, Effort lost 6 games I think we should now stop talking about him because he's CLEARLY the worst player to ever look like a monster. He doesn't even deserve to play in Savior's team, he should be kicked to b-team and forgotten. What a fool I was to think that effort was any good at all when clearly all of his wins and his 60+% record in all match ups even after these losses were flukes.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
Wow. Talk about hell week for Jaedong. First off, starting off with a bo5 against Canata, someone who is as big of a threat or maybe a bigger threat to Jaedong than fantasy. And now? He needs to finish off Zero while potentially playing 5 games in the two days that follow (At least they'll all be zvz's). If anyone can pull this off it's Jaedong.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
We protect out own. In flocks, yes. That's cause there are flocks of dedicated, knowledgeable CJ fans... *cue reaction!*
Look, all you need to look for when asking whether EffOrt is the next Leta is this: EffOrt: 6-1 Leta: 0-3
That's their record in the playoffs. Only one of these two has ice water in his veins.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
They aren't even flaming... what are you talking about?
I mean im not a huge effort fan.. but hes ZvZ is so good. way to go clam!!
and the JD canata series was epic. i loved how jd laughed when he won. I thought canata played great... that game on carthage he got so fooled by the hidden expo LOL. And i love that Valkonic build on heartbreak. so strongggg
On July 31 2009 00:51 vaMpYr wrote: being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
Then clearly, you haven't paid any attention to the pro-scene in 2001. I don't think I even knew what Starcraft was back then and even I know Boxer was respected as the best back then. Coming on TL and trying to impose your "facts" on everyone else isn't the way to go.
P.S. Sorry if English isn't your first language but please, please, capitalize...
im in despair .. im as much boxer fan as you are , dont miss on that . im just honest . boxer has never been a bonjwa like iloveoov nada and savior . i HATE iloveoov , so im objective here . i prefer A LOT boxer than oov and savior . boxer has a negative record in tvp , his macro was poor compare to the others tops , and he has never been able to win any league after 2002 when all the legends have appeared ( nada , oov , kingdom , nal ra , reach , xellos , july .. ) . bonjwa is a hard word . even nada oov and savior had a short age of total domination . boxer was in the top players at his age and maybe even after . he was in the top i think until 2005 . but he has never been THE top . at his best age , he was a jaedong or a bisu . but he was not a oov nada or savior . just be honest on that . being the biggest legend of starcraft of all time doesnt mean for sure to be the best . we can find many similar situations in sport .
all this useless discussion when we were talking about effort and zergs , i think i have shown my anger about all the shit on effort like i wanted to do it . im satisfied , lets talk again now after OZ vs CJ =)
It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
I failed to see how a guy who single-handedly DEFINED progaming not considered the best at his time. Maybe Boxer didn't have a ridiculous 80% vZ record like Oov did, but back when Nada and Oov were still being milk-fed, Boxer was crushing every single soul on his way to the throne. In fact, it was because of him that the word "dominance" got added to the dictionary (today, if you look up the word, you will pretty much see something like "refer to Yo-Hwan Lim).
Anyway, leaving all the Boxer's hype aside, all I want to say is that Boxer's records might not be as impressive as others', but it doesn't mean that he wasn't the best player during his time. He was bagging GOLDs back in 2001, and you're saying he wasn't the top player.
Back on topic, I still can't believe Canata lost. I mean I know JD is godlike and stuffs, but Canata has been doing so well lately. His vZ was actually getting there and beating JD was the only last step to make people start calling him The vZ Bonjwa ... But never mind that, I dislike his new hairstyle (as much as I hate mushroom T_T) and a JD-Bisu final sounds orgasmic to me ...
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
On July 31 2009 00:51 vaMpYr wrote: being the best player around is very hard and rare . if you create a poll to choose the best player for the 3 past years , jaedong wont win the pool , bisu wont either , stork wont either , flash wont either . being the best player around without doubt is very very hard . boxer was not like that same thing for nal ra or reach . but nada iloveoov and savior were during their days .
Then clearly, you haven't paid any attention to the pro-scene in 2001. I don't think I even knew what Starcraft was back then and even I know Boxer was respected as the best back then. Coming on TL and trying to impose your "facts" on everyone else isn't the way to go.
P.S. Sorry if English isn't your first language but please, please, capitalize...
im in despair .. im as much boxer fan as you are , dont miss on that . im just honest . boxer has never been a bonjwa like iloveoov nada and savior . i HATE iloveoov , so im objective here . i prefer A LOT boxer than oov and savior . boxer has a negative record in tvp , his macro was poor compare to the others tops , and he has never been able to win any league after 2002 when all the legends have appeared ( nada , oov , kingdom , nal ra , reach , xellos , july .. ) . bonjwa is a hard word . even nada oov and savior had a short age of total domination . boxer was in the top players at his age and maybe even after . he was in the top i think until 2005 . but he has never been THE top . at his best age , he was a jaedong or a bisu . but he was not a oov nada or savior . just be honest on that . being the biggest legend of starcraft of all time doesnt mean for sure to be the best . we can find many similar situations in sport .
all this useless discussion when we were talking about effort and zergs , i think i have shown my anger about all the shit on effort like i wanted to do it . im satisfied , lets talk again now after OZ vs CJ =)
Boxer's records aren't the best mostly because he has continued to play long after he was de-throned as "the best", and he started to lose more, which tainted his record. He completely dominated everything up until '02, and is without a doubt considered the first Bonjwa. I'm sorry, but this is one of those rare occasions where your opinion is wrong. He was THE BEST back then. Of course he wasn't a Bonjwa like Oov, Nada, or Savior. Each generation improved on the last, and that's why each Bonjwa dominated the previous ones. Comparing them to each other is stupid because they dominated different eras where the game was played COMPLETELY differently. If you watch any of Boxer's early games, you'll see what I'm talking about - VERY micro oriented, minimal macro in comparison. The game was completely different back then and it's ridiculous to compare players from different eras.
It was a great attempt by Canata. He's certainly improved this season, without a doubt. But it's somewhat of an established fact that you can't "cheese" (as the kids say) JD with the same build twice in the same BoX series (I hope someone puts up sweet VOD to show the error of my assessment).
As for Effort, 0:3 seems pretty definitive to me. I give some credit to Calm's micro and aggression (and yes, some luck as well), but even if you disagree, you must question why Effort went for the worst (or at the very least, the most dangerous) ZvZ build two consecutive games. So much for the hype... I think he'll still perform well in the SPL.
I'm thinking the remainder of Iris vs Bisu is going to be absolutely mind-blowing, nay,face-combusting.
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
-goes off to rabble about Byzantium-
I don't believe it was a complaint about imba maps but that Boxer was given a version of a map to practice on and it changed in the final and no one told him (it had a cliffable base in the version he was given and he went for a fast dropship build only to not find a cliff or something I believe).
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
-goes off to rabble about Byzantium-
I don't believe it was a complaint about imba maps but that Boxer was given a version of a map to practice on and it changed in the final and no one told him (it had a cliffable base in the version he was given and he went for a fast dropship build only to not find a cliff or something I believe).
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
CJ fanboy rage time:
FLUKE?! He lost to iris after decimating Khan pretty much single handed. Then he lost because he chose to 12 hatch, which was dumb, but to call him a fluke is way too much.
I find it funny that you guys posted almost the same thing write after each other. Do CJ fans flame in floks? Granted I do kinda agree with what you are saying because this is exactly like what flash does. Very few players can handle a busy PL schedual and SL's. Jaedong and maybe Bisu are the only ones who are kinda able to do this, even then Bisu falls short often.
What are you talking about? With a comment like that, you don't expect EffOrt/CJ fans to argue against that?
Calm was really no big underdog against Effort? (but he was the underdog).
People also seem to forget that Game 1 of this series was a *normal* ZvZ which Calm also won... Yes, game 2 and 3 were BO wins, well deserved BO wins, if you go 12 hatch your asking for it.
Btw: Yes, I voted also July > Flash and 2 of the 3 games were really close, it still boggles me how july could lose the second game (and the third)...
On July 31 2009 10:02 Sigrun wrote: It's general consensus that the bonjwas are: Boxer, iloveoov, Nada, Savior, so you are wrong.
Boxer's only difference is that he didn't follow the pattern of 3 MSL 1 OSL, but I think his back to back OSL wins (followed by another finals appearance the following season) speaks for itself.
Not to mention the fact that being given the wrong map could have cost him a 3rd osl
back-to-back WCG tittles too
You can also say that wrong maps cost YellOw about every SL in the few years he was top Zerg :d
Crying about map imba is only fun to do in the moment, not years after
-goes off to rabble about Byzantium-
I don't believe it was a complaint about imba maps but that Boxer was given a version of a map to practice on and it changed in the final and no one told him (it had a cliffable base in the version he was given and he went for a fast dropship build only to not find a cliff or something I believe).
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
Yes a fluke... just like Leta, just like By hero, just like canata currently is, just like Kal was, just like best was in his osl run, just like skyhigh will be a fluke soon. By fluke i mean they have their time of dominance for 3-6 months.... but after that they will just become an average player. Only progamers who have consistently held up (and not been flukes) so far since 2006. 2007 are stork (he's slumping bad and i dont think he will recover... but he wasn't a fluke with all his silvers), bisu, jaedong, flash, fantasy. None of the others that i mentioned as flukes have held a good run for long and have much to prove. Just because they are "hot" right now doesn't make them a favorite over others who are close in elo/skill level. Calm and effort in my view were evenly matched. But calm was the one i chose because effort was overrated atm... calms micro definitely showed a lot of skill. Watch his game vs seashield... wow, impressive micro/intuition. Effort on the other hand just reminds me of an aggressive JD. He has what it takes but doesn't seem to show anything else but good micro.
Anyways to each their own..... i think effort is a fluke atm... as well as skyhigh.. It won't be long before we see iris taking his seat as cj's ace or another upcoming rookie. Those 2 will pass in a couple months.
On July 31 2009 00:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Pity my overall LB sucks this season
Gee, with bets like Calm > Effort in a BO5 I wonder why. Guessing you rolled July > Flash as well?
I liquidbetted Calm > Effort in a BO5... My LB doesn't suck this season. effort really showed in his recent games that he was just a fluke and that helps reason my guess.
Fluke my ass. He's been performing ALL SUMMER. He only lost to Iris after DEMOLISHING KHAN with 3 wins, and he lost a ZvZ, the most upset-likely matchup, against a very respectable Z player. Just because he's lost a tad bit doesn't mean he's a fluke. Should we say the same about JD? Bisu? Any of the other top players?
Yes a fluke... just like Leta, just like By hero, just like canata currently is, just like Kal was, just like best was in his osl run, just like skyhigh will be a fluke soon. By fluke i mean they have their time of dominance for 3-6 months.... but after that they will just become an average player. Only progamers who have consistently held up (and not been flukes) so far since 2006. 2007 are stork (he's slumping bad and i dont think he will recover... but he wasn't a fluke with all his silvers), bisu, jaedong, flash, fantasy. None of the others that i mentioned as flukes have held a good run for long and have much to prove. Just because they are "hot" right now doesn't make them a favorite over others who are close in elo/skill level. Calm and effort in my view were evenly matched. But calm was the one i chose because effort was overrated atm... calms micro definitely showed a lot of skill. Watch his game vs seashield... wow, impressive micro/intuition. Effort on the other hand just reminds me of an aggressive JD. He has what it takes but doesn't seem to show anything else but good micro.
Anyways to each their own..... i think effort is a fluke atm... as well as skyhigh.. It won't be long before we see iris taking his seat as cj's ace or another upcoming rookie. Those 2 will pass in a couple months.
Calm and Skyhigh won't become S-class and be really dominant like some of the players you listed, but I feel Effort still has the potential. Though he doesn't seem to handle being overworked very well, so it'd be better for him to focus on just one league next season. I don't think Effort's overhyped yet, but Skyhigh definitely has been.
On July 31 2009 00:37 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh and Calm is baller because he basically was a mind reader. It helps being on the same team and practicing with the master of the metagame, July =D
Now I'm happy because I'll be ecstatic whether Jaedong or Calm wins, and I'll cheer for the winner in the finals ^^
Calm didn't read anyone's mind. You almost knew effort was going to 12 hatch. He 12 hatched vs luxury in the superace(sparkyz) and 12 hatched vs by.great during the ace(samsung). He thinks he can get away with it, cause he won those two games, so he became overconfident in his build. Look at the cockiness in the last game. He saw the OL flying over and he still built the fucking hatch!
On July 31 2009 00:37 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh and Calm is baller because he basically was a mind reader. It helps being on the same team and practicing with the master of the metagame, July =D
Now I'm happy because I'll be ecstatic whether Jaedong or Calm wins, and I'll cheer for the winner in the finals ^^
Calm didn't read anyone's mind. You almost knew effort was going to 12 hatch. He 12 hatched vs luxury in the superace(sparkyz) and 12 hatched vs by.great during the ace(samsung). He thinks he can get away with it, cause he won those two games, so he became overconfident in his build. Look at the cockiness in the last game. He saw the OL flying over and he still built the fucking hatch!
you realized you just said calm didn't predict anything but immediately afterward said how calm predicted effort would 12-hatch, right?
On July 31 2009 00:37 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh and Calm is baller because he basically was a mind reader. It helps being on the same team and practicing with the master of the metagame, July =D
Now I'm happy because I'll be ecstatic whether Jaedong or Calm wins, and I'll cheer for the winner in the finals ^^
Calm didn't read anyone's mind. You almost knew effort was going to 12 hatch. He 12 hatched vs luxury in the superace(sparkyz) and 12 hatched vs by.great during the ace(samsung). He thinks he can get away with it, cause he won those two games, so he became overconfident in his build. Look at the cockiness in the last game. He saw the OL flying over and he still built the fucking hatch!
you realized you just said calm didn't predict anything but immediately afterward said how calm predicted effort would 12-hatch, right?
I said he didn't read anyone's mind. He isn't a mind-reader. If you're playing against bisu as zerg, you know he's going to fe fast expand. Did you read his mind? No.
Um, 20/20 hindsight. Those were good predictions by Calm. Your logic is really bad because you already know the results.
Lol, if Effort goes 12 hatch tonight, you can use the same logic by saying that he was stubborn in this series, so why would he chance? If effort goes 9 pool, you could say that he just got owned by 12 hatch two times in a row, it'd be stupid to do it again. Also, why didn't any of Effort's previous opponents know this? Does doing the same build 2 times in a row somehow make it obvious that they'll continue doing it? Why does it arbitrarily stop at 2?
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/alffla/avalonMSLbanner_copy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/211.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/206_Carthage3_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/197_Byzantium3_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/199_HeartbreakRidge_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/200_Outsider_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1.jpg)
Jaedong < Carthage 3 / Byzantium 3 / Heartbreak Ridge / Outsider > 
Canata![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/581.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/76.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/photo/1248344182_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/hwaseung.png)
Jaedong > ![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/skt1.png)
Canata![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/cj.png)
Effort > ![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/stx.png)
Calm
![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/ace.png)
ACE![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/khan.png)
Samsung Khan![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/kt.png)
KT MagicNs![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/woongjin.png)
Woongjin Stars![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/wemade.png)
WeMade Fox![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/mbc.png)
MBC Hero![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/sparkyz.png)
Hite Sparkyz![[image loading]](http://intothesunset.kilu.de/tl/teamicons/estro.png)
eStro
hopefully this is just a rumor 
![[image loading]](http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7932/keikakudooriinjapjp2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt257/DoktarHEFG/Untitled-1.png)
![[image loading]](https://www.bestsoul.com:447/isolation/files/soul_gallery/%EA%B9%80%EC%9C%A4%ED%99%98_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i26.tinypic.com/30loua0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/riptide/proleague200809/pl_sf_illustration_jaedong.jpg)
