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[SPL] Playoffs - CJ Entus vs Samsung Khan Day 1 - Page 5

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
July 22 2009 23:47 GMT
#81
4 TvZs = awesome.
empty.bottle
Profile Joined July 2009
685 Posts
July 22 2009 23:47 GMT
#82
beware of the miracles @.@
Shizuru~
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Malaysia1676 Posts
July 23 2009 00:18 GMT
#83
I love these team fanboys trash-talking each others teams, kinda like how real sports is...

first 4 line-ups for CJ, Berserker terran, mini-Beserker terran, Hawk-eye zerg + pikachu zerg, WTF could go wrong?
empty.bottle
Profile Joined July 2009
685 Posts
July 23 2009 00:52 GMT
#84
i just hope to see some BM CC's D:
FranzF1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile1710 Posts
July 23 2009 01:31 GMT
#85
On July 23 2009 09:18 Shizuru~ wrote:
I love these team fanboys trash-talking each others teams, kinda like how real sports is...

first 4 line-ups for CJ, Berserker terran, mini-Beserker terran, Hawk-eye zerg + pikachu zerg, WTF could go wrong?


What could go wrong?? I can say what...
Play against KHAN!!
4-0 Baby for KHAN 4-0


I cant wait for this >.<
Member #99999^99 of the fanclub of Grape, Reality and TurN
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-23 01:33:57
July 23 2009 01:32 GMT
#86
On July 23 2009 09:18 Shizuru~ wrote:
I love these team fanboys trash-talking each others teams, kinda like how real sports is...

first 4 line-ups for CJ, Berserker terran, mini-Beserker terran, Hawk-eye zerg + pikachu zerg, WTF could go wrong?


EVERYTHING COULD GO WRONG, CAUSE KONADORA PREDICTED 4-0 CJ!

And (T)Miracles do happen.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
Conquest101
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1395 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-23 01:44:29
July 23 2009 01:35 GMT
#87
My predictions. I'll try to give some reasoning for my picks as well.

(T)(T)Iris <Andromeda> (Z)(Z)oDin
Iris is the heavy favorite against Odin. While Iris is not known for his TvZ really, he has always been consistent. Odin, on the other hand, sucks balls at ZvT.

(T)(T)sKyHigh <Destination> (Z)(Z)great
I believe that Skyhigh is the better player of the two here. Statistics back me up, but they aren't as lopsided as Iris vs Odin. If it were any other map, but Destination, I'd give Great a better chance of taking it, but I'm gonna have to go with Skyhigh here.

(Z)(Z)EffOrt <Neo Harmony> (T)(T)firebathero
Forget about BC's, Savior, crotch dancing, and all that crap. FBH hasn't been doing AS bad as everyone trumpets, but he's been doing pretty bad. Is there a chance that he could pull out some brilliance and pull an upset? Sure there is, but those chances are much smaller against a zerg like Effort. Effort has been RAPING terrans lately. Other than his loss to Flash, he hasn't dropped a non BoX game in 5 months to a terran.

(Z)(Z)Kwanro <Neo Medusa> (T)(T)Miracle
I keep waiting for teams/players to figure out that, yes, Kwanro is going to be aggressive, but it just doesn't seem to happen. But MAYBE, just MAYBE, it will finally happen this game, and Miracle will win. Maybe. Neither player is amazing at the matchup, but I'm gonna give the edge to Miracle here.

(P)(P)Movie <Heartbreak Ridge> (P)(P)JangBi
(P)(P)Much <Shades of Twilight> (P)(P)Stork

I'm not going to predict a winner in these last 2 games because PvP is fickle beast. I think that Jangbi/Stork both have the edge in their games, but both Movie/Much are more than capable of pulling an upset. If it gets to this point, Jangbi and Stork will have to step up and clutch to force an ace match.

(Z)EffOrt <Outsider> (P)JangBi/(P)Stork
I can't imagine Khan sending out a Z for ace vs the ZvZ of Effort (CJ's most likely ace), and FBH doesn't seem likely assuming Effort beats him in their earlier match, which is probable, so that leaves Jangbi/Stork. CAN either of those 2 beat Effort? Yes. Will they? Probably not.

It's tough to say what the final score will be. If KHAN can avoid getting 4-0'd, they can definitely take it to an ace match. Unfortunately, it won't be easy, and if they manage it, they will have to come out with something amazing to topple Effort. Oh, and since Outsider is the ace match map, look out for Skyhigh to maybe make an appearance instead of Effort. I feel that Outsider fits well with his TvP style, so it's definitely possible. I wouldn't count on it, considering Jangbi/Stork's PvT prowess, but it's something to consider.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
July 23 2009 01:42 GMT
#88
It's like looking at a mirror; if Khan can beat STX then Khan can beat CJ.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-23 01:52:14
July 23 2009 01:50 GMT
#89
In about 2 days and a few hours, I'll watch GTR eat his underwear and FBH dancing around Alienzerg performing his trademark crotch-thrusting ceremony.

What would make it even sweeter would be if FBH were to be able to do it twice. But sadly, the set isn't gonna go that long, cause Khan's gonna 4-0 ez. Why? Konadora predicted 4-0 CJ, and he's always wrong.

God Bless
Conquest101
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1395 Posts
July 23 2009 01:51 GMT
#90
On July 23 2009 10:42 Count9 wrote:
It's like looking at a mirror; if Khan can beat STX then Khan can beat CJ.

Sure they can, but there are a few differences between this play day vs STX/Khan's first play day.

First of all, these matchups are definitely worse for Khan than vs STX. Come on, Odin playing ZvT? Ugh.
The way they did their lineup creates the serious possibility they will get 4-0'd as well, with Jangbi/Stork playing 5th and 6th. Like I said above, if they can avoid that, an ace is pretty likely.

However, Effort is the stronger ace compared to Calm.

It just seems to me that, they are at more of a disadvantage here.

The second day certainly looks much better for Khan though, but if it ends up going to super ace again, Effort still > Calm.
Ronald_McD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada807 Posts
July 23 2009 02:11 GMT
#91
Wow.
Khan's lineup is just suicide.
They're counting on 3 barely known and 1 slumping player to score a win against some of CJ's best. I don't know why they would risk the chance of getting 4-0'd and having Stork and Jangbi not get the chance to even play their games.
But of course anything can happen, so it's not very unlikely they'll squeeze at least one win out of the first four matches.

Either way I think CJ's gonna take this one, hands down
FUCKING GAY LAGS
Apex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States7227 Posts
July 23 2009 02:20 GMT
#92
I think there is a high probability that it will be a 4-0 CJ unless Great can pull off a win.

I also find it funny that both teams went 2 races->2 races->2 races. All in perfect sequence. So much for variation. Either that or the maps determined the matchups.

I'm going to predict at least one cheese from one of the 4 KHAN players. I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen.

But who knows? Anything can happen. It's been proven time and time again: Appalachian State, US vs Soviet Russia, Frozean vs Jaedong (By the way, what DID happen to that guy who said he was going to suck a row of cocks if Jaedong lost?).
Elyvilon
Profile Joined August 2008
United States13143 Posts
July 23 2009 02:32 GMT
#93
On July 23 2009 11:11 Ronald_McD wrote:
Wow.
Khan's lineup is just suicide.
They're counting on 3 barely known and 1 slumping player to score a win against some of CJ's best. I don't know why they would risk the chance of getting 4-0'd and having Stork and Jangbi not get the chance to even play their games.
But of course anything can happen, so it's not very unlikely they'll squeeze at least one win out of the first four matches.

Either way I think CJ's gonna take this one, hands down

In this format, what's the difference between a 4-0 and a 4-3?
Liquipedia
Conquest101
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1395 Posts
July 23 2009 02:34 GMT
#94
On July 23 2009 11:32 Elyvilon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2009 11:11 Ronald_McD wrote:
Wow.
Khan's lineup is just suicide.
They're counting on 3 barely known and 1 slumping player to score a win against some of CJ's best. I don't know why they would risk the chance of getting 4-0'd and having Stork and Jangbi not get the chance to even play their games.
But of course anything can happen, so it's not very unlikely they'll squeeze at least one win out of the first four matches.

Either way I think CJ's gonna take this one, hands down

In this format, what's the difference between a 4-0 and a 4-3?


There isn't one, but you don't want to be 4-anything'd obviously.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
July 23 2009 02:59 GMT
#95
I'm back with a monster of a Statistics post :O. I doubt anyone will actually read it, but doing this is actually pretty fun :D.

Statistics
+ Show Spoiler +
The line directly below holds a different version of previous Statistics. It goes in this order:
(W-L of the Last 5 Games of Player 1 in the Match up, Overall %), Map Statistics for that Match up, (W-L of the Last 5 Games of Player 2 in the Match up, %).

(T)Iris <Andromeda> (Z)oDin

(4-1, 55%), 33-30, (1-4, 19.23%)

This should be a walkover. Just from the Statistics, you can tell that oDin is severely outmatched here. His last televised win against a Terran was about a year ago against BoxeR. This year, he is 3-5 in Proleague, with wins against Reach, Rock, and Haran. Iris is looking solid this year. He's become one of CJ's go to guys this year, and he's even in the Ro4 in the GOM Classic Season 3 where he is also matched up against a Zerg. Although his weakest match up is against Zerg, he has pulled out some surprisingly effective play this season in games against great and ZerO. Although he can't even begin to match up with S class players, oDin is clearly outmatched in this game.

The map doesn't help either. Andromeda has a very mixed record TvZ, and although Zergs have found a second wind on the map during Winners League, games between comparable players have shown that Andromeda is still slightly Terran favored. Flash during his little mini-slump beat down a rising YellOw[ArnC] on that map, and Sea even bested Jaedong in an epic match late last year.

(T)sKyHigh <Destination> (Z)great

(1-4, 57.69%), 45-31, (4-1, 53.85%)

After his epic two takedowns of Jaedong in the Winners League, we haven't really heard much from Skyhigh in TvZ. His TvZ is okay at best, but he hasn't really been performing that well at all in the match up. He got knocked out of GOM Classic 3 by July 1-2, and knocked out of the MSL 0-2 by failed cheeses ZerO. He hasn't been able to secure a win against any good Zerg in the past few months. However, that is not to say that he is slumping. He was vital to CJ's dismantling of SPARKYZ in their match, absolutely destroying Leta twice. In addition, he scored a win against fantasy, one of the best TvT players out there right now. So what's Skyhigh's problem? Probably a lack of game sense in the match up. I mean it's like all SkyHigh can do now against Zerg is cheese. Even then, he still kind of fails at it. Great originally had an okay record, but lately, he has been stepping up his game and has showed us what he is capable of. He beat out Calm for the Ace Match in the first set of Khan v STX, and he beat out hero earlier in the same match. However, his ZvT is relatively untested. His most recent televised match was against Lomo, where he had a fairly close game. However, just two months ago, great got knocked out the OSL in the Preliminary stages by... kkong. I don't even know who kkong is, but great lost 0-2 to that guy, so his ZvT isn't exactly top notch. However, his recent games have shown us that he does have the potential.

The most famous instance of Skyhigh's play on Destination is obviously Skyhigh vs. Jaedong in Winner's League. The map itself favors Terran, but lately the record is rather mixed. The play on Destination has really evolved since it's inception, so past games won't do the map much justice.



(Z)EffOrt <Neo Harmony> (T)firebathero

(4-1, 64.86%), 17-20, (2-3, 57.69%)

This match is probably going to be the game of the night. EffOrt has lately become an absolute monster, rolling over pretty much anyone who stands in his way. His only recent loss has been to Flash (The one where EffOrt didn't expect cheese), but overall, he hasn't lost to anyone recently except for YellOw[ArnC], Jaedong, and IrOn. For the past 25 ZvT games, the only loss that wasn't in a Bo3 was to Flash. That's a pretty impressive run. He's overall 22-3 for the past 25 ZvTs. That's all that needs to be said on EffOrt. Firebathero is... well, not looking so hot. The most recent TvZ he played was against Calm, which he lost in a rather decisive fashion on the same map he's going to play EffOrt on. His TvZ definitely isn't what it used to be, although even then it was rather inconsistent. Overall, the picture doesn't get that much better. He's pretty much breaking even right now in terms of win-loss for the past 10 games, and many of those losses or wins aren't against the best of players (except for his game versus Flash). If FBH shows a similar performance like he gave in his previous Proleague match, well, the game won't be pretty.

Neo Harmony has been very back and forth in terms of TvZ. It's been so back and forth that it's hard to draw any real conclusions from its record. However, Neo Harmony is a map where a Mech style has been attempted by Terran, so any games that are Mech on that map have to be thrown out since firebathero probably won't Mech. In that case, the map is still pretty much even. EffOrt has also never played a game on Neo Harmony, and with the recent lack in macro maps, firebathero doesn't have too much information on EffOrt's macro game, so that might give EffOrt a slight edge.

(Z)Kwanro <Neo Medusa> (T)Miracle

(4-1, 57.89%), 9-14, (2-3, 50%)

Kwanro is another player that's playing pretty well at the moment, especially against Terran. He took out Flash in the MSL 2-1, and rolled over Justin in CJ v SPARKYZ. His game sense has definitely developed since his early days as just a very, very aggressive Zerg player. Kwanro has also proven that he can take games to the end game and not completely fall apart. Miracle has a very limited record, so there's not a lot of information on him. He has performed decently in Proleague, although he did drop out of the OSL 1-2 to hyvaa. From looking at a few of Miracle's TvZs, Miracle is similar to Kwanro in that he also plays a fairly aggressive TvZ style. He takes the fight to his opponent with aggressive 1 base plays, but he falters when he's on the defensive. This should be a fairly interesting match if both players opt to go for an agressive build.

The map Neo Medusa appears to have quite a Terran bias, but there hasn't really been any games played between two comparable players, however, a popular trend on Neo Medusa lately has been an aggressive 2 Hatch muta opening, so considering that it is Kwanro, we'll probably see some sort of 2 Hatch play from him.

(P)Movie <Heartbreak Ridge> (P)JangBi

(1-4, 36.36%), 21 PvPs played, (2-3, 51.56%)

After his spectacular Leta snipe, Movie showed a rather lackluster game when he got crushed by Justin on Day 2. It shows that Movie is still a rather inconsistent player that can play a spectacular game... sometimes. Anyway, PvP is Movie's worst match up, and it shows statistically and in his record. However, he hasn't exactly lost to the worst PvP players. In his games this year, the only three players that he's played that isn't a top Protoss are Horang2, GuemChi, and Violet. Of those, he's only won against GuemChi, but that's nothing to be ashamed about considering that his opponents are top notch PvP players. Then again, look at JangBi's PvP record this year, and he's played a ton of good Protosses with a mixed record. He's played Bisu 8 times this year, free 3 times, Stork 3 times, and Kal twice. Of those, he's 3-0ed free and Stork, is 3-5 against Bisu, and is 1-1 with Kal. That's a pretty impressive PvP record. On the other hand, he's lost to Jaehoon (WTF) andYoonJong recently (Much cheesed him, doesn't count ), so he's in a little mini slump in terms of PvP. However, his recent wins in Proleague have surely revitalized him, so JangBi might be psychologically over with his slump. If that's the case, expect to see a very one-sided PvP match.

Neo Medusa is a map that's pretty notorious for it's positional imbalance. On certain positions, reaver drops become much more dangerous because of the positioning of the main bases. This might play some role in determining the winner of this match, but clutch storms or reaver micro can steal the win away in PvP, so anything is possible.

(P)Much <Shades of Twilight> (P)Stork

(1-4, 50.79%), 5 PvPs played, (4-1, 59.74%)

There's really no doubt that Much is in quite a slump right now and he hasn't been able to break out of it. His only wins recently against Protoss were JangBi and Reach, both of which were proxy 2 Gate cheeses. There's no doubt right now that if Much plays straight up, he'll probably lose to Stork. Stork is looking very solid in PvP. He's beaten Bisu, free, and BackHo twice. His only loss was against SangHo, where Stork looked like a total idiot. Interestingly, the game before against Bisu, Stork pulled some awesome 2 speed shuttle reaver harass and destroyed Bisu. Stork definitely is not to be trifled with in standard PvP, and Much should realize that he has little chance if he plays standard.

Shades of Twilight is a map that is perfect for a very harass oriented style of play. There are a lot of areas where reavers or templar can be dropped, and this style suits Stork's style of play. If it coems down to late game PvP, Stork's style of play is perfect for Shades of Twilight.

< Outsider >
TvZ: 25-30 (45.5%)
ZvP: 11-10 (52.4%)
PvT: 15-13 (53.6%)

CJ is most likely going to send out EffOrt to play on this map since he's EffOrt and it's Outsider. However, the question is who will Khan send? They probably wouldn't trust firebathero anymore, and great is probably out as well since EffOrt's ZvZ is looking too good. Therefore, it'll probably either be JangBi or Stork. Since the map is another instance of one where Stork's harass style can come into good use, he's the more likely choice.


Predictions?
+ Show Spoiler +
(T)Iris <Andromeda> (Z)oDin

Have you looked at oDin's ZvT record? (See above)

(T)sKyHigh <Destination> (Z)great

Unless sKyHigh pulls some epic cheese.

(Z)EffOrt <Neo Harmony> (T)firebathero

EffOrt is just too good right now.

(Z)Kwanro <Neo Medusa> (T)Miracle

I think this one will probably be closer than I think, but Kwanro's play is just more solid so I'll go with him.

(P)Movie <Heartbreak Ridge> (P)JangBi

I <3 JangBi.

(P)Much <Shades of Twilight> (P)Stork

Unless Much cheeses.

(Z)EffOrt <Outsider> (P)Stork

I'm too conflicted to choose.


Oh, and I just resized the map images kona . The images themselves are from TLPD
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Elyvilon
Profile Joined August 2008
United States13143 Posts
July 23 2009 03:11 GMT
#96
On July 23 2009 11:34 Conquest101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2009 11:32 Elyvilon wrote:
On July 23 2009 11:11 Ronald_McD wrote:
Wow.
Khan's lineup is just suicide.
They're counting on 3 barely known and 1 slumping player to score a win against some of CJ's best. I don't know why they would risk the chance of getting 4-0'd and having Stork and Jangbi not get the chance to even play their games.
But of course anything can happen, so it's not very unlikely they'll squeeze at least one win out of the first four matches.

Either way I think CJ's gonna take this one, hands down

In this format, what's the difference between a 4-0 and a 4-3?


There isn't one, but you don't want to be 4-anything'd obviously.

Right, but I've seen multiple people say that Stork and Jangbi should've been placed earlier so that KHAN could avoid getting 4-0ed. Was just pointing out that that was wrong.
Liquipedia
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
July 23 2009 03:17 GMT
#97
I was thinking to myself: "how can anyone be a samsung fan?" then i read this thread, check the fav team icons and now i know how.
Moderator<:3-/-<
The Storyteller
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
Singapore2486 Posts
July 23 2009 03:18 GMT
#98
On July 23 2009 11:20 Apex wrote:
Frozean vs Jaedong (By the way, what DID happen to that guy who said he was going to suck a row of cocks if Jaedong lost?).


Probably choked. So unclutch.
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
July 23 2009 03:36 GMT
#99
I love how TvZ is all the rage right now! It is one of my two favorite matchups and the fact that we don't have as many mirrors rules as well. Everyone seems to be picking CJ by far, but who knows. All Khan has to do in my mind is win one of the 1st 4 games to extend the match to their two big guns who can then force an ace where Jangbi can be a beast. Sure, CJ should be the favorite, but it's not like Khan has lost before this has started.
Conquest101
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1395 Posts
July 23 2009 04:28 GMT
#100
On July 23 2009 12:11 Elyvilon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2009 11:34 Conquest101 wrote:
On July 23 2009 11:32 Elyvilon wrote:
On July 23 2009 11:11 Ronald_McD wrote:
Wow.
Khan's lineup is just suicide.
They're counting on 3 barely known and 1 slumping player to score a win against some of CJ's best. I don't know why they would risk the chance of getting 4-0'd and having Stork and Jangbi not get the chance to even play their games.
But of course anything can happen, so it's not very unlikely they'll squeeze at least one win out of the first four matches.

Either way I think CJ's gonna take this one, hands down

In this format, what's the difference between a 4-0 and a 4-3?


There isn't one, but you don't want to be 4-anything'd obviously.

Right, but I've seen multiple people say that Stork and Jangbi should've been placed earlier so that KHAN could avoid getting 4-0ed. Was just pointing out that that was wrong.


Well, I'm pretty sure they mean that, if Jangbi/Stork were played earlier, there would be less chance for a 4-0, and thus Khan could more likely force an ace match and win, or hell, even win outright (though that doesn't seem likely).

It'd be pretty depressing for Khan, if all their mediocre players lost, and their best 2 players didn't even have a chance to play.
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