EPT[IEST] Hwasin and Calm: Attempt@Psuedo-Journalism. - Page 3
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Manatea
Korea (South)48 Posts
but I don't think this discussion can affect toward Korean anymore. majority of korean just take one of followed views 1. It is understandable foreign suspect a rigged game. but I believe our players and what they said 2. What is IEST? I don't care about foreign league. 3. I don't know which one is true, so I won't care. and minor opinions 4. Why chinese are always afflicting us? (kind of racist thing) 5. Do you have eyes? It must be a rigged game! Those Koreans already lost interest in this issue as just a few people believe 5 Currently they are talking why AirForce team are losing again and again, and whether Bisu can be listed on bonjwa line(Boxer-Nada-oov-Savior) I don't think Kespa do something either. It can't be completely proven and they are not in charge of foreign league. expecially there's no opposite pro team to claim (You know Kespa is proteam' association) | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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[]Dlayer
United States15 Posts
On October 23 2007 09:30 Jibba wrote: It seems unlikely that the Koreans will do anything at this point, but have any of the Chinese officials said anything? What if STX were banned from competing in IEST from now on. Yes, Koreans look down on foreign tournaments, but do they look down on foreign $30,000 paychecks? I'm curious too. What are Chinese official/IEST saying about this issue? | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
On October 23 2007 07:34 FoBBish wrote: A: im going to kick your leg. so block your leg. B: ok, ill block my leg. B blocks face, A kicks leg. B: thought you were tricking me and kicking my head.  LOL but the worst part is, Hwasin followed up with his builds instead of countering. On October 23 2007 07:35 ambit!ous1 wrote: If the games were fixed it was probably done before the match. What idiot would chat like that when thousands of people are watching. Its just plain and simple. It's probably real hard to read what they were typing in audience view and they had little spelling errors (or codes) to probably make it seem weird. And from my thoughts, Chinese ( or any other type of people) wouldnt really understand what they were saying anyway. On October 23 2007 09:25 Manatea wrote: Good article which is well summarized. 2. What is IEST? I don't care about foreign league. and minor opinions 4. Why chinese are always afflicting us? (kind of racist thing) 5. Do you have eyes? It must be a rigged game! If you have read, IEST is a chinese league, so why did you ask that question, since you dont care about foriegn leagues? Chinese are not afflicting us (Koreans), I think game was rigged, even if its not as big as Proleague or god forbid a individual league, people watching basically a play or a skit. And if we have eyes, thats sorta retarded question because obviously, Koreans and Chinese have real small eyes  , and are you saying the game was rigged or not? Confusing | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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SpringWind
China230 Posts
On October 23 2007 07:35 ambit!ous1 wrote: If the games were fixed it was probably done before the match. What idiot would chat like that when thousands of people are watching. Its just plain and simple. I think Hwasin and Calm didnt know IEST had first person view live,if they konw,why they had to use whisper to talk about games? | ||
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[]Dlayer
United States15 Posts
On October 23 2007 09:38 []Dlayer wrote: I'm curious too. What are Chinese official/IEST saying about this issue? bump | ||
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
EDIT: Or featured threads. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On October 23 2007 09:42 il0seonpurpose wrote: LOL but the worst part is, Hwasin followed up with his builds instead of countering. It's probably real hard to read what they were typing in audience view and they had little spelling errors (or codes) to probably make it seem weird. And from my thoughts, Chinese ( or any other type of people) wouldnt really understand what they were saying anyway. If you have read, IEST is a chinese league, so why did you ask that question, since you dont care about foriegn leagues? Chinese are not afflicting us (Koreans), I think game was rigged, even if its not as big as Proleague or god forbid a individual league, people watching basically a play or a skit. And if we have eyes, thats sorta retarded question because obviously, Koreans and Chinese have real small eyes , and are you saying the game was rigged or not? ConfusingHes saying those are the main views in the korean community, not his views. Its in response to a question in the first thread. Btw, thanks for that post manatea | ||
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OnCoke
Romania49 Posts
* we can all agree that when we talk about a SC game between 2 korean pro-gamers (that each wants to win), it is implied full concentration from each player; * we can all agree Hwasin was tired and really wanted to get things over with as fast as possible; * we can all agree on the fact that korean pro-gamers and/or korean people involved in the SC gaming scene have little respect for foreign SC players when it comes to playing the game (and they have the right! they spend so much time training and give up so much stuff that they could do at that age; all they know is SC and they dedicate almost every waking our to getting better or staying in shape; also, they know foreign players are far, far from that); so, they probably have little respect for IEST (since it is a foreign competition), agree?; So (he was tired and wanted to finish fast, he didn't care about the competition, he would've won money either way - i've read they split the money), why can't we agree that's a good enough reason to do what some people say they did? And i can think of another reason: some people (in the other thread) were saying the players are not to blame because probably, if the games were fixed, it was done by their coach/team leaders. Maybe, just maybe, it was done like that, and the players didn't like it, but since they really can't go against the coach/team leader, they tried to send a message out in this way. (I think this scenario is far-fetched... but who knows; sometimes the most crazy conspiracy theories turn out to be true). Now you could ask: "If this fixing really happened, why Hwasin and not Calm for no.1?" (i shouldn't give a reason for this; for me it's obvious; but i've seen arround here there's a few that just don't want to think on this matter too much). Hwasin is the icon of STX (not Tossgirl  ), their best player (i think), but it's tired and he can't compete with a more rested Calm. So, since it's only IEST ....Also, comebacks are always nice to watch and give spectators more entertainment, so ... Hwasin no.1. On to the mind trick thing. Well, i think i can understand that type of mind game (so i tell my opponent i'll do the X build to get him to think that i'll never do that build, right? and when the game starts, i'll do exactly that build and surprise him). But why try to hide it? Why whispered? Do it without whispering so everyone can see it. Or maybe their type of mind games are not to be shared with the foreigners? (inC - we know sarcasm). Well ... maybe they feared that the foreigners will not understand that type of mind games and will react with a 23pages closed thread and more. Or maybe they had something to hide. What do you think it's more logic? My logic tells me they had something to hide. I have a lot of respect for the pro-gamers (already stated at the begining of the post why) even if some of them have little respect for foreign players and competitions (like i said, they've earned their right to look down on these things - i'm not saying it's an ok thing, i'm just saying i don't think this kind of behaviour should be a reason for foreigners to be angry at them). BUT, fixing the games in a competition with (a lot) of money at stake, with (a lot) of fans watching and in the Final, it's just on a level of low that i simply can't ignore - comparable with maphacking and cheating. This will haunt them for sometime, fortunately for them it seems the "storm" will stay outside Korea and since they don't care that much about foreign stuff, they'll just go on with their usual schedule. Concerning fans outside Korea, they'll probably make a mind note about this and every time Hwasin or Calm plays, they'll watch the game wishing for SC karma to leave it's mark. I know it doesn't sounds right, but i think threads on tl.net with people expressing their discontempt towards this issue is all that's going to happen - no bans, no dq's, no korean fans angry at the two or any penalties by the team or someone else. PS: While some think the primary reason they shouldn't have done this is because of the money involved, i think the primary reason is the respect for the people watching (fans or simple audience interested in SC - because of these people watching they have sponsors and a team and a monthly paycheck and they should treat them with more respect). I'm mostly basing this on the fact that it didn't matter if they fixed it or not, the prize would still go to them and not some other player. IF we were talking about a fixed game that prevented some other player to earn prize money, then yes, i'd focus on that too and i think even the officials would've looked more into it. Edit: some spelling. | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
Disclaimer: This post is built upon a founding assumption: that Hwasin and Calm rigged the results of IEST's Grand Final. If you disagree with this assumption, the entirety of this post will be beneath considering. Like deniers of US torture in the war on terror, you needn't bother thinking about what should be done, since as far as you're concerned it didn't happen. So, ignore this post if you can't entertain the idea that they fixed the finals. From my perspective, S.Korean e-Sports has 2 ways they can deal with this. 1) They can ignore the scandal and move on with business as usual, which is what they seem to be doing if Manatea's assessment is accurate. Or 2) Deal with the problem head-on, issue reprimands based on the strength of current evidence, and take steps to prevent such behavior in the future. It almost goes without saying that I think they should pursue the second option. Although this was a foreign tournament and hardly in the purview of Korean officials, how Korean pros conduct themselves abroad is of great importance to the business' foreign expansion aims. Koreans that have an interest in expanding e-Sports into other countries (I.E. proteam sponsor corporations) should weigh their options carefully. In my opinion, the foreign e-Sports scene, such as it is, and particularly the foreign BW tournament organizers, rely upon and are in a symbiotic relationship with Korea's progamers. The public and corporate success of Korea's leagues as a spectators sport grants legitimacy to and establishes an example for foreign BW in particular and e-Sports in general as a competitive activity worthy of watching, earning sponsors, and advertising through. Without this borrowed legitimacy, foreign e-Sports might not exist... and I'm certain it wouldn't exist with regards to BW. Although I wouldn't say this single event will destroy the business of e-Sports outside S.Korea, it does nothing to help the cause, and imo, the effect is corrosive. As a result of this event, {88}inControL, a long time and accomplished BW player, wrote: "SC is starting to lose a lot of its luster for me." Now, he may've been exaggerating and will calm down once the novelty of this event wears off, I can't say for sure, but it certainly speaks to what I'm talking about here. He had something personal invested in the untainted sportsmanship of foreign tournaments. What happened at the IEST grand finals between Hwasin and Calm spoiled that for him. And I don't think he's alone in this feeling. I'm adding a poll to gauge people's feelings about this: Poll: Has this caused you to lose interest in Foreign BW tournaments? (Vote): Yes, I've lost some interest in foreign tournaments. (Vote): No, my interest in foreign tournaments is as strong as ever. (Vote): Korean progaming is all I care about. No opinion. (Vote): Cheating is part of foreign tourneys, get used to it. | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
Not sure it should be compared with legendary point-shavers from 50 years ago though. But balanced and largely neutral summary. | ||
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OnCoke
Romania49 Posts
I don't see how this affects the quality of the games between foreign players, at a foreign tournament. Just that from now on i will have no interest in the games involving 2 korean players from the same team or one of the two players involved in this thing; also, i will ask myself "is this for real or are they fixing it again?" everytime 2 koreans (from different teams) will play a game in a foreign tournament. | ||
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MeriaDoKk
Chile1726 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 23 2007 11:08 OnCoke wrote: I voted option #2 also, but it'll certainly affect the way I look at Hwasin and Calm from now on, and I'll be rooting for both to lose any time (not like that means anything, but meh). At the same time, it gives me more respect for players like Boxer and sAviOr who do specific things to entertain fans and who always try to crush their opponent.Voted second option (No, my interest in foreign tournaments is as strong as ever.) but the count increased on the first one.... I don't see how this affects the quality of the games between foreign players, at a foreign tournament. Just that from now on i will have no interest in the games involving 2 korean players from the same team or one of the two players involved in this thing; also, i will ask myself "is this for real or are they fixing it again?" everytime 2 koreans (from different teams) will play a game in a foreign tournament. | ||
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
I'm really starting to see the whole "Not taking it seriously"/"Mindgames" concept. I mean, we've all seen what pro's look like when they don't take a game seriously. Remember the All-star games? "everyone, if boxer 8 raxes please scream" Boxer sends out an early SCV, everyone starts screaming, yellow 12 pools. BoxeR: "No kill today (in konglish, english in korean font)" Or: Nal_Ra let Chalrenge's pylon live, on the condition that he stay quiet. Chalrenge: "Nal_Ra is rebuilding at 1" Nal_Ra's probe finishes Chalrenge off Chalrenge: "A f***"" When the players don't take it seriously, they have fun. Calm: "I'll beat you with this crazy build" Hwasin: "ok! I'll beat you anyway, no ring" (No bunker?) I'm not saying this is exactly what happened, but considering the fact that players message eachother all the time to fool around and play mind games, it is DEFINITELY a possibility that this is what it was. To see it this way, you have to understand that players message eachother all the time, and that they really weren't taking the event seriously. Perhaps that is all they're guilty of? Not taking the event seriously? Anyway, don't flame me. Just merely trying to understand the situation from both perspectives. | ||
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