EPT
[ASL13] Ro24 Group E
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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masoka82
Spain594 Posts
The youngest of the tournament! | ||
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
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tankgirl
Canada458 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
 But maybe we'll get entertained with some unorthodox play from Ruin  | ||
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prosatan
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prosatan
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Sirris
681 Posts
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prosatan
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:15 Sirris wrote: Ruin could absolutely beat ssak. I think picking between jyj, ssak, and ruin is one of the hardest picks of the ro 24. Yes Sirris, thanks for LR-ing yesterday  | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On that note...I think he made a big mistake getting 2 cannons...completely removing any benefit from his initial plan. I know it's much easier said than done but at the ASL level protoss really needs to be able to defend 6 lings with just one cannon and probe micro. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
Loses the zealot for free... | ||
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prosatan
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Sirris
681 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:20 prosatan wrote: I don't get this... why would you send one zealot when you already saw 6 lings with your scouting probe?? Loses the zealot for free... I believe he was trying to sneak it out without it being found. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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prosatan
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Sirris
681 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: not the best storms i think the storms were decent BLinD-RawR, but he lost his templars... | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + just like yesterday between snow and ggaemo | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
I swear, Ruin hasn't made and major mistakes... and he lost right away ... | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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ggsimida
1156 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:27 prosatan wrote: Good storms...but Ruin hasn't a good position anymore...I wonder what mistakes he made ! Just a really mediocre build line. Starting from 2 cannons early for no reason. Just as an example. Nothing Ruin did was gaining an advantage. He managed to kill some mutas but then lost most of the sairs. I think he expected a lurker switch earlier from Soma based on the gas timing but Soma delayed the switch and punished the early goon production. THEN went lurker. You look at someone like Ruin compared to a player like Mini and you see that protoss needs to really be on the edge of defense against a great zerg player. You can't over defend or play too safe. You need to have offensive pressure to keep zerg from getting too big(as in too many drones early). | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:32 Sirris wrote: Just a really mediocre build line. Starting from 2 cannons early for no reason. Just as an example. Nothing Ruin did was gaining an advantage. He managed to kill some mutas but then lost most of the sairs. I think he expected a lurker switch earlier from Soma based on the gas timing but Soma delayed the switch and punished the early goon production. THEN went lurker. You look at someone like Ruin compared to a player like Mini and you see that protoss needs to really be on the edge of defense against a great zerg player. You can't over defend or play too safe. You need to have offensive pressure to keep zerg from getting too big. I see Sirris...but one cannon vs maybe more speedlings...then is very hard for p with lings running in your main... idk | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4262 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
 Luckily I voted JYJ. | ||
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TMNT
3171 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:32 Sirris wrote: Just a really mediocre build line. Starting from 2 cannons early for no reason. Just as an example. Nothing Ruin did was gaining an advantage. He managed to kill some mutas but then lost most of the sairs. I think he expected a lurker switch earlier from Soma based on the gas timing but Soma delayed the switch and punished the early goon production. THEN went lurker. You look at someone like Ruin compared to a player like Mini and you see that protoss needs to really be on the edge of defense against a great zerg player. You can't over defend or play too safe. You need to have offensive pressure to keep zerg from getting too big(as in too many drones early). Isn't the reason apparent: 2 Cannons is standard vs 9 Pool. 1 Cannon is kinda middle of the road, you can't apply pressure but at the same time is not totally safe. Might as well go for Gate expand instead. There's a reason the greatest PvZ players (Bisu, Mini) almost always go for Gate instead of Forge expand. That's what I find unfair about this match-up. As a Protoss in PvZ, playing safe doesn't win you the game unless Zerg fucks up his macro by himself. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:42 TMNT wrote: Isn't the reason apparent: 2 Cannons is standard vs 9 Pool. 1 Cannon is kinda middle of the road, you can't apply pressure but at the same time is not totally safe. Might as well go for Gate expand instead. There's a reason the greatest PvZ players (Bisu, Mini) almost always go for Gate instead of Forge expand. That's what I find unfair about this match-up. As a Protoss in PvZ, playing safe doesn't win you the game unless Zerg fucks up his macro by himself. I agree with you. I think Ruin was hoping to counter the 12 hatch with nexus first. It didn't work out for him though. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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prosatan
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Sirris
681 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
Only I will know...he might get eliminated first...  | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
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Sirris
681 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
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BLinD-RawR
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Sirris
681 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
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BLinD-RawR
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BLinD-RawR
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BLinD-RawR
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Sirris
681 Posts
These guys are working so hard. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
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Zetter
Germany629 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On February 16 2022 20:13 BLinD-RawR wrote: oh 3 hatch muta has gone so out of style that its become new again? I think specifically for this map its very difficult to defend a third against a high rax opening like 4 rax tech or even more so against 5 rax. So I think it's just map based. But there is a trend for sure against opening quick 3rd for zergs. I think terrans are not opening mech or 1/1/1 as much anymore. The meta shift makes zergs more open to early bio plays. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
Advantage Ssak. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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prosatan
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
Well, at least one of my LB predictions is right | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On February 16 2022 20:53 emperorchampion wrote: bad two days for protoss heroes Don't feel too bad. Ruin was never going to get out of the ro 16 Besides you have Bisu! All is well. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On February 16 2022 20:56 Sirris wrote: Don't feel too bad. Ruin was never going to get out of the ro 16 Besides you have Bisu! All is well.Just a mixup from groups A-C where all the protoss were winning Also ssak with the least efficient scouting possible lol | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
Soma did the most expected build as I predicted. Ssak should be expecting this exact play. It fits the map. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
24 by the end lol | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
but tomorrow is the day !!! I am so nervous.......... | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
On February 16 2022 21:20 Sirris wrote: Have Soulkey and Mong in next round. Mainly just to counter all the Jaedong lovers noooooooooo!!! don't say this Sirris! Make it JAEDONG and ... someone else | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On February 16 2022 21:21 prosatan wrote: noooooooooo!!! don't say this Sirris! Make it JAEDONG and ... someone else Mong is one of those players that plays extremely well in the early stages. He never gets far but plays well early. I love Jaedong but he hasn't shown anything to show he's back to a top form level. | ||
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ggsimida
1156 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
Let's see whether SK,JD will make it 5p,4t,7z. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19345 Posts
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Lazyer
United States373 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
SoMa also played really well but it's going to be tough for him if he gets into group with best terrans. Ruin showed poor performance, especially that last game, all that 500 APM and couldn't save his observers. For sSak group was tough although he didn't play bad at all. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On February 17 2022 06:54 outscar wrote: I feel like JyJ and RoyaL (sOrry) are two dark horses of this tournament. They both look pretty great. I've never seen a disappointing game from JyJ, and Royal seems to be on fire. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50936 Posts
On February 17 2022 02:24 BisuDagger wrote: I can't believe an unnamed member of the TL staff decided to doubt Jyj. fuck skt also I bet on him, still #1 | ||
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ExpatRights
53 Posts
On February 16 2022 19:42 TMNT wrote: Isn't the reason apparent: 2 Cannons is standard vs 9 Pool. 1 Cannon is kinda middle of the road, you can't apply pressure but at the same time is not totally safe. Might as well go for Gate expand instead. There's a reason the greatest PvZ players (Bisu, Mini) almost always go for Gate instead of Forge expand. That's what I find unfair about this match-up. As a Protoss in PvZ, playing safe doesn't win you the game unless Zerg fucks up his macro by himself. Mini >>>>>>>> Bisu in 2022 bro | ||
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ggsimida
1156 Posts
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NotoriousSCV
27 Posts
Its usually the Z unit mix that causes the T problems. But this is T causing the Z the same problems. I've seen BC's fail so often but really nice this time. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
On February 17 2022 16:15 ggsimida wrote: bisu standard pvz is still better than mini Man i dont think they are in the same league anymore lol | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19345 Posts
On February 22 2022 00:14 TornadoSteve wrote: Man i dont think they are in the same league anymore lol This year Bisu and Mini hold nearly 60% winrates in spon matches against every Zerg but Soulkey. Statistically they are on par, but I have little faith in Bisu in the ASL. It has been like watching him in OSLs. | ||
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TMNT
3171 Posts
On February 17 2022 15:32 ExpatRights wrote: Mini >>>>>>>> Bisu in 2022 bro On February 22 2022 00:14 TornadoSteve wrote:Man i dont think they are in the same league anymore lol The ASL results may skew people's opinion a little bit because Mini 4-1 Queen twice in consecutive seasons. Problem is he prepared specific builds for those series and Mini is a bit like Queen's bogeyman. He's not that dominant against Hero, Soma and especially Soulkey. In truth if you really pay close attention to other matches like spongames, KCM,... his PvZ is in no way more impressive than what Bisu did. Right now Mini is a bit better but mostly due to match sharpness after Bisu took his hiatus. I'd say when Bisu gets his form back (pre-crypto scandal) they are equal. | ||
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TMNT
3171 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19345 Posts
On February 22 2022 04:15 TMNT wrote: Btw, talking about Queen. What happened to the guy? He dropped to like top 30 on sponbbang, can lose to pretty much anyone now. He isn't even streaming often anymore. Certain players reduce streaming time before ASL matches. I'm sure Zero is doing just that. | ||
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lamarine
589 Posts
On February 22 2022 04:15 TMNT wrote: He isn't even streaming often anymore. maybe that's the problem you can be talented and smart and all, but if you are not training constantly, your performance becomes unpredictable which means you can lose to anybody. You can also see this happening to Light. He reduced streaming time a lot in past few months. He still can absolutely kill anyone, but he can also lose to anyone. While players like best and mini a streaming/playing all the time, and you can see the results. | ||
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TMNT
3171 Posts
On February 22 2022 08:12 BisuDagger wrote: Certain players reduce streaming time before ASL matches. I'm sure Zero is doing just that. He has less than 40% win rate vs all the top Terran and Protoss in 2022. All of them. I wouldn't bet on Queen making it out of R16 this time. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
On February 22 2022 18:34 HOLYBATS wrote: Is group selection today ? Right now HOLYBATS ! | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
group selection on effort's stream: https://tl.net/video/streams/momo130 | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/VN7Fls5.jpg) | ||
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prosatan
Romania8776 Posts
! I wrote them on BW general discussion But good thing you made a picture! i'll save it !! | ||
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
I cannot see Light advancing. JD's muta control against SK was refreshing to see, and I definately can see him advancing. You might think this is a good group for your Bisu, its not. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4262 Posts
On February 22 2022 20:51 HOLYBATS wrote: groups A and D are fucking nuts.. damn this is gonna be good!  | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
B: Easiest C: ZVZ Challenge for SK again D: PVZ , PVP,ZVZ Fest Great match ups. | ||
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TMNT
3171 Posts
He basically gave himself the group of death, and his best friend Shuttle the easiest group possible. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
On February 22 2022 21:52 TMNT wrote: Mini is such a nice guy. He basically gave himself the group of death, and his best friend Shuttle the easiest group possible. Reminds me Larva picking Bisu first. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
rush, shuttle jaedong, hero best, soma I think sOrry is probably the strongest player overall right now, but he hasnt showed his true top form onstage yet, unlike rain and mini. All in all, I doubt he will manage to get out of this group. Rush must be laughing out loud, i dont see how he can possibly not make it to ro8. ggaemo has been looking great lately, unfortunately this wont be enough. Action is shaky, shuttle should finish 2nd a good % of the time. I want jyj to advance, hes got only 1 match up to practice, and hes quite scary atm. Hes not facing some random zergs though, but frankly anyone can make it in group c. I promise myself to stop betting for the guy season after season, and i cannot stop doing it. Here we go again, Best 1st and ... probably soma, because the other 2 arent in their best form. I have chills, this is the best asl ro16 on paper.... ever. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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Lazyer
United States373 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
On February 23 2022 03:26 Lazyer wrote: I rly want to see Mini try and PvP Rain in tournament series so do I, probably the lonely time id actually watch a PvP series with some entertainment expectation. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
On February 23 2022 02:06 QOGQOG wrote: Mini really doesn't want to win back-to-back ASLs, huh? I remember in ASL12 group selection Mini said he does not want the group easy.And selected JYJ instead of easier players. Mini picking Light makes Group A R8 standart. After beating Rush on ASL13 finals he made a challenge himself. | ||
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oxKnu
1259 Posts
Group D though, what the fuck happened there.. -- Note: Soulkey again getting bopped because of ZvZ. Again we are robbed by the giga-brain mastermind he is in both ZvT and ZvP. | ||
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rararara
115 Posts
hope ASL will think about race distribution in the future. | ||
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
On February 23 2022 19:18 rararara wrote: great player pool, but too many mirror-matches. hope ASL will think about race distribution in the future. dunno what you are talking about tbh. Ro24 had 30 matches and only 4 of them were mirror matches and in the ro16 there are only 2 mirror matches 100% sure (JD vs SK and JD or SK against hero). Other than that it depends on who wins and who loses in their respective matches and this is nothing that could be influenced by the ASL staff anyway | ||
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rararara
115 Posts
On February 23 2022 20:10 oEkY wrote: dunno what you are talking about tbh. Ro24 had 30 matches and only 4 of them were mirror matches and in the ro16 there are only 2 mirror matches 100% sure (JD vs SK and JD or SK against hero). Other than that it depends on who wins and who loses in their respective matches and this is nothing that could be influenced by the ASL staff anyway Ro24 was great matchup-wise (by accident?). Ro16 has only 1 out of 4 groups with all three races represented. There's a reason they have KCM Racewars and why you never see any mirror matches in Ultimate Battle. ASL _could_ make a rule in the selection stage that picks have to consider race distribution - e.g. if you have the possibility, each race has to be represented in a group. This would balance out the order of the picks, too. Anyway, I find the 4 seeds to be too privileged. They get to skip Qualifiers + Ro24 and choose their first opponent. I get the marketing aspect - the group selection celebration is fun and they probably want to have more dynasties/superstars à la Flash, but look at what happened to Queen after his two ASL victories... I root for this guy, but he got quite lucky reaching the semis where he got smashed both seasons by Mini. In both matches for 3rd Place he seemed too crushed or entitled to care. Don't think that's good for the product or fair competition. Props to all players who made challenging and/or entertaining picks. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
On February 23 2022 17:04 oxKnu wrote: Mini and Light are huge favorites in group A. Group D though, what the fuck happened there.. -- Note: Soulkey again getting bopped because of ZvZ. Again we are robbed by the giga-brain mastermind he is in both ZvT and ZvP. Pretty sure Light survive group A less than 15% of the time. | ||
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lamarine
589 Posts
On February 24 2022 02:39 TornadoSteve wrote: Pretty sure Light survive group A less than 15% of the time. pretty sure he goes out first place | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
Hope to see lots of P make it out of groups! | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey783 Posts
Mini//Rain Rush//Shuttle herO//JD Bisu/Queen | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1769 Posts
JD > SK Winners: JD > Hero Losers: SK > JYJ Final: SK > Hero | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
Can't wait to see Bo5 Jae vs Mini/Bisu/Rain/Zero or Light or anyone | ||
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weiliem
2072 Posts
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Brainojack
Canada195 Posts
On February 24 2022 15:37 weiliem wrote: Where can I watch the Group Selection process?? https://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/84149504 some of these groups are insane | ||
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