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On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison.
Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. 
Who is this replacement you are talking about?
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United States10139 Posts
On November 13 2017 17:10 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison. Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. Who is this replacement you are talking about?
All good things must come to an end at some point :/
I have a friend named Jaeyun, maybe people have heard of him. He's a fantastic Zerg player (top 150 USW) who's been starting to commentate games a bit and his analysis is great. He's talked to me about taking my spot. The only issue is that tuesdays might not work out for him but we'll see.
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This series ended up being closer than I expected. Hero managed to impress me quite a bit, especially in game 2 & 3. Pity that the deciding game was such an anti-climax in comparison.
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Game 3 was really good, too bad the other ones weren't as good
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Bisutopia19229 Posts
On November 13 2017 18:49 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 17:10 Miragee wrote:On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison. Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. Who is this replacement you are talking about? All good things must come to an end at some point :/ I have a friend named Jaeyun, maybe people have heard of him. He's a fantastic Zerg player (top 150 USW) who's been starting to commentate games a bit and his analysis is great. He's talked to me about taking my spot. The only issue is that tuesdays might not work out for him but we'll see.
The cycle continues! We will have our legacy  . Also, I'll be back in 2018. Never surrender!
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On November 13 2017 21:19 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 18:49 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 17:10 Miragee wrote:On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison. Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. Who is this replacement you are talking about? All good things must come to an end at some point :/ I have a friend named Jaeyun, maybe people have heard of him. He's a fantastic Zerg player (top 150 USW) who's been starting to commentate games a bit and his analysis is great. He's talked to me about taking my spot. The only issue is that tuesdays might not work out for him but we'll see. The cycle continues! We will have our legacy . Also, I'll be back in 2018. Never surrender!
good to heard,it kind of made me sad how important u were for bw in 2017 then dissapeared but having a new born is obviously first second and third priority
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On November 13 2017 08:04 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5?
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning
By the way, I was just re-watching the finals, and Tasteless does say "this is last ASL of the year" near the beginning
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On November 13 2017 11:29 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 06:41 Barneyk wrote:On November 13 2017 05:22 Burned Toast wrote:
Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. I really should, I just rewatched that exacr sequence and he called it just like it was instead of focusing on something else. Artosis and Tasteless both have far better understanding of the game than I do but they so often fail to mention crucial aspects of what is happening, no matter how obvious it is. Sometimes they call really interesting details that I miss, but just as often they miss huge obvious things. I almost always watch the games on youtube later in the day with anticipation addon so I don't get spoiled with the duration, but for the next season I think I am gonna go with FlashFTW anyway, I always mess up the spoil the duration for myself somehow anyway. d-do i tell him that I'm retiring from ASL casting? O.O Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 10:02 niteReloaded wrote:On November 13 2017 09:40 Rainalcar wrote:
Flash is similar to Klitschko brothers. He/they reached greatest heights in BW/boxing, but to the (arguably) boring styles of play (playing Terran, methodical, almost computer-like approach/distance jabs) and overwhelming dominance, not too many people actually care. I dare to say that Flash's dominance is detrimental for BW. Let's see where do we go from here. I agree. I think most people would agree that having one person being so good means the beauty of the game remains 'hidden' because the games are such rolls. On November 13 2017 08:54 Starlightsun wrote:On November 13 2017 08:04 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5?
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning I hope this is not true.  Sadly, it makes sense. JD and Bisu not competing means there's less chance of someone challenging Flash. ASL5 would be like a teacher competing vs students in school... heck, even the studio for the finals wasn't nearly full. They COULD make a new type of show that would somehow build it's intrigue, suspense and thrill on the fact that Flash IS such a dominant figure. Make him the guy to 'decapitate'... some type of new vibe show. I also agree with this sentiment that too dominant of a player does indeed make the games unfun to watch. As much as I love FlaSh, it's exciting when he has this rival that can stand up to him and have a good chance of upsetting him. When he loses, everyone loses their heads and everyone is cheering for the underdog because he's been at the top for so long. Really wished Larva or SK met him in the finals, I think it would have been extremely competitive but alas, no dice.
As a Flash fan, I feel sad that almost everyone feels this way.
Let me ask people here a question — how many can honestly say they would feel the same way if JD were the one in Flash’s shoes?
How many people felt the same way about Jordan or Gretzky?
Why is Flash not looked upon as favorably as other players? He doesnt have a bad personality. He has a lot of interesting and funny quirks (twitching, pocari, ruler). Its also not like he burst onto the scene and just dominated, he went thru a lot of really tough losses before rising to the top.
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United States10139 Posts
On November 13 2017 21:19 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 18:49 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 17:10 Miragee wrote:On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison. Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. Who is this replacement you are talking about? All good things must come to an end at some point :/ I have a friend named Jaeyun, maybe people have heard of him. He's a fantastic Zerg player (top 150 USW) who's been starting to commentate games a bit and his analysis is great. He's talked to me about taking my spot. The only issue is that tuesdays might not work out for him but we'll see. The cycle continues! We will have our legacy . Also, I'll be back in 2018. Never surrender!
hey nice! glad to hear to it man. tell lildagger much love from his far off uncle haha
On November 14 2017 00:11 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 11:29 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 06:41 Barneyk wrote:On November 13 2017 05:22 Burned Toast wrote:
Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. I really should, I just rewatched that exacr sequence and he called it just like it was instead of focusing on something else. Artosis and Tasteless both have far better understanding of the game than I do but they so often fail to mention crucial aspects of what is happening, no matter how obvious it is. Sometimes they call really interesting details that I miss, but just as often they miss huge obvious things. I almost always watch the games on youtube later in the day with anticipation addon so I don't get spoiled with the duration, but for the next season I think I am gonna go with FlashFTW anyway, I always mess up the spoil the duration for myself somehow anyway. d-do i tell him that I'm retiring from ASL casting? O.O On November 13 2017 10:02 niteReloaded wrote:On November 13 2017 09:40 Rainalcar wrote:
Flash is similar to Klitschko brothers. He/they reached greatest heights in BW/boxing, but to the (arguably) boring styles of play (playing Terran, methodical, almost computer-like approach/distance jabs) and overwhelming dominance, not too many people actually care. I dare to say that Flash's dominance is detrimental for BW. Let's see where do we go from here. I agree. I think most people would agree that having one person being so good means the beauty of the game remains 'hidden' because the games are such rolls. On November 13 2017 08:54 Starlightsun wrote:On November 13 2017 08:04 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5?
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning I hope this is not true. Sadly, it makes sense. JD and Bisu not competing means there's less chance of someone challenging Flash. ASL5 would be like a teacher competing vs students in school... heck, even the studio for the finals wasn't nearly full. They COULD make a new type of show that would somehow build it's intrigue, suspense and thrill on the fact that Flash IS such a dominant figure. Make him the guy to 'decapitate'... some type of new vibe show. I also agree with this sentiment that too dominant of a player does indeed make the games unfun to watch. As much as I love FlaSh, it's exciting when he has this rival that can stand up to him and have a good chance of upsetting him. When he loses, everyone loses their heads and everyone is cheering for the underdog because he's been at the top for so long. Really wished Larva or SK met him in the finals, I think it would have been extremely competitive but alas, no dice. As a Flash fan, I feel sad that almost everyone feels this way. Let me ask people here a question — how many can honestly say they would feel the same way if JD were the one in Flash’s shoes? How many people felt the same way about Jordan or Gretzky? Why is Flash not looked upon as favorably as other players? He doesnt have a bad personality. He has a lot of interesting and funny quirks (twitching, pocari, ruler). Its also not like he burst onto the scene and just dominated, he went thru a lot of really tough losses before rising to the top.
single player games tend to have that feel to them. people want them to lose because in single player, you know exactly whos the better player while in team games, its possible to have the rest of the team be better or more cohesive. we saw that in SSG vs SKT in the worlds for league of legends. And it was easy to root against Faker there too because of how good he is.
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On November 14 2017 00:18 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 21:19 BisuDagger wrote:On November 13 2017 18:49 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 17:10 Miragee wrote:On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison. Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. Who is this replacement you are talking about? All good things must come to an end at some point :/ I have a friend named Jaeyun, maybe people have heard of him. He's a fantastic Zerg player (top 150 USW) who's been starting to commentate games a bit and his analysis is great. He's talked to me about taking my spot. The only issue is that tuesdays might not work out for him but we'll see. The cycle continues! We will have our legacy . Also, I'll be back in 2018. Never surrender! hey nice! glad to hear to it man. tell lildagger much love from his far off uncle haha Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 00:11 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:On November 13 2017 11:29 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 06:41 Barneyk wrote:On November 13 2017 05:22 Burned Toast wrote:
Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. I really should, I just rewatched that exacr sequence and he called it just like it was instead of focusing on something else. Artosis and Tasteless both have far better understanding of the game than I do but they so often fail to mention crucial aspects of what is happening, no matter how obvious it is. Sometimes they call really interesting details that I miss, but just as often they miss huge obvious things. I almost always watch the games on youtube later in the day with anticipation addon so I don't get spoiled with the duration, but for the next season I think I am gonna go with FlashFTW anyway, I always mess up the spoil the duration for myself somehow anyway. d-do i tell him that I'm retiring from ASL casting? O.O On November 13 2017 10:02 niteReloaded wrote:On November 13 2017 09:40 Rainalcar wrote:
Flash is similar to Klitschko brothers. He/they reached greatest heights in BW/boxing, but to the (arguably) boring styles of play (playing Terran, methodical, almost computer-like approach/distance jabs) and overwhelming dominance, not too many people actually care. I dare to say that Flash's dominance is detrimental for BW. Let's see where do we go from here. I agree. I think most people would agree that having one person being so good means the beauty of the game remains 'hidden' because the games are such rolls. On November 13 2017 08:54 Starlightsun wrote:On November 13 2017 08:04 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5?
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning I hope this is not true. Sadly, it makes sense. JD and Bisu not competing means there's less chance of someone challenging Flash. ASL5 would be like a teacher competing vs students in school... heck, even the studio for the finals wasn't nearly full. They COULD make a new type of show that would somehow build it's intrigue, suspense and thrill on the fact that Flash IS such a dominant figure. Make him the guy to 'decapitate'... some type of new vibe show. I also agree with this sentiment that too dominant of a player does indeed make the games unfun to watch. As much as I love FlaSh, it's exciting when he has this rival that can stand up to him and have a good chance of upsetting him. When he loses, everyone loses their heads and everyone is cheering for the underdog because he's been at the top for so long. Really wished Larva or SK met him in the finals, I think it would have been extremely competitive but alas, no dice. As a Flash fan, I feel sad that almost everyone feels this way. Let me ask people here a question — how many can honestly say they would feel the same way if JD were the one in Flash’s shoes? How many people felt the same way about Jordan or Gretzky? Why is Flash not looked upon as favorably as other players? He doesnt have a bad personality. He has a lot of interesting and funny quirks (twitching, pocari, ruler). Its also not like he burst onto the scene and just dominated, he went thru a lot of really tough losses before rising to the top. single player games tend to have that feel to them. people want them to lose because in single player, you know exactly whos the better player while in team games, its possible to have the rest of the team be better or more cohesive. we saw that in SSG vs SKT in the worlds for league of legends. And it was easy to root against Faker there too because of how good he is.
Believe me I get why youd want to root for the underdog. I do it all the time.
Thats why I brought up JD. I think people will not nearly be as “bored” with one player dominating if it was JD and not Flash. And that’s a shame.
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On November 14 2017 00:11 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 11:29 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 06:41 Barneyk wrote:On November 13 2017 05:22 Burned Toast wrote:
Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. I really should, I just rewatched that exacr sequence and he called it just like it was instead of focusing on something else. Artosis and Tasteless both have far better understanding of the game than I do but they so often fail to mention crucial aspects of what is happening, no matter how obvious it is. Sometimes they call really interesting details that I miss, but just as often they miss huge obvious things. I almost always watch the games on youtube later in the day with anticipation addon so I don't get spoiled with the duration, but for the next season I think I am gonna go with FlashFTW anyway, I always mess up the spoil the duration for myself somehow anyway. d-do i tell him that I'm retiring from ASL casting? O.O On November 13 2017 10:02 niteReloaded wrote:On November 13 2017 09:40 Rainalcar wrote:
Flash is similar to Klitschko brothers. He/they reached greatest heights in BW/boxing, but to the (arguably) boring styles of play (playing Terran, methodical, almost computer-like approach/distance jabs) and overwhelming dominance, not too many people actually care. I dare to say that Flash's dominance is detrimental for BW. Let's see where do we go from here. I agree. I think most people would agree that having one person being so good means the beauty of the game remains 'hidden' because the games are such rolls. On November 13 2017 08:54 Starlightsun wrote:On November 13 2017 08:04 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5?
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning I hope this is not true. Sadly, it makes sense. JD and Bisu not competing means there's less chance of someone challenging Flash. ASL5 would be like a teacher competing vs students in school... heck, even the studio for the finals wasn't nearly full. They COULD make a new type of show that would somehow build it's intrigue, suspense and thrill on the fact that Flash IS such a dominant figure. Make him the guy to 'decapitate'... some type of new vibe show. I also agree with this sentiment that too dominant of a player does indeed make the games unfun to watch. As much as I love FlaSh, it's exciting when he has this rival that can stand up to him and have a good chance of upsetting him. When he loses, everyone loses their heads and everyone is cheering for the underdog because he's been at the top for so long. Really wished Larva or SK met him in the finals, I think it would have been extremely competitive but alas, no dice. As a Flash fan, I feel sad that almost everyone feels this way. Let me ask people here a question — how many can honestly say they would feel the same way if JD were the one in Flash’s shoes? How many people felt the same way about Jordan or Gretzky? Why is Flash not looked upon as favorably as other players? He doesnt have a bad personality. He has a lot of interesting and funny quirks (twitching, pocari, ruler). Its also not like he burst onto the scene and just dominated, he went thru a lot of really tough losses before rising to the top.
What Flash is going through isn't unique to him alone, and has little to do with his level of success. Some people just aren't popular, and it is their success at the highest level that keeps their status relevant, while some are blessed with adulation from the fans regardless of their actual status as competitors.
BoxeR had it. sAviOr had it. Bisu had it. Jaedong has it now. Flash never had it during his career, whatever his level of play or achievements happened to be. NaDa spent the vast majority of his career being shit on by BoxeR fans for being too mechanically proficient, and was likened to a brainless spamming machine, which NaDa tried to prove wrong by doing some of the weirdest strategies, but no matter how hard NaDa tried, people (including the tournament organizers) just wanted BoxeR to win that Golden Mouse instead of NaDa. Jaedong for the longest time, was in the shadow of sAviOr despite having overcome sAviOr in terms of skill and achievement much earlier.
These kind of phenomena have little rhyme or reason, and it comes down to some of the most ridiculous factors such as one-off memorable story lines from a single tournament, or superficial things like good looks, or having the ability to speak English instead of Korean.
This isn't a popularity contest, so there's not much need to over analyze these things. It happens elsewhere too. David Beckham was more popular, and had more lucrative deals than the vast majority of his contemporaries, but knowledgeable football fans can gloss over these kind of trivia to focus on actual relevant material. There may be those who mindlessly root for whoever was born within their border, those who appeal to them aesthetically, or those who made a strong impression that one single time that these simpletons actually paid attention to actual spectating.
Popularity is of little meaning within the realm of competition. The entire purpose of competitive Brood War is to champion the best player, and the rest is up for subjective opinion. The only thing that matters is competitive results, and you can let those with lesser results have the adulation, because ultimately, if you go down that path of commercial success and popularity, some random Korean girl who flirts online for money is currently bitch-slapping all our heroes on these streaming platforms. It truly does not matter for those who have their sights on the competitive side of things.
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Bisutopia19229 Posts
On November 13 2017 22:15 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 21:19 BisuDagger wrote:On November 13 2017 18:49 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 17:10 Miragee wrote:On November 13 2017 16:55 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 12:07 Miragee wrote:
You won't do any more ASL casts? o.O No. Sadly people grow up and life has more responsibilities for you. I need to apply to law school soon and take my LSATs. Which means time for starcraft and casting has become almost 0. I'll try to do some casts on my youtube here or there but for official casts, I'm going to need to take a step back. Hopefully more talent can develop and keep the scene going though. I remember when Bisudagger first brought me onto the casts and it helped me grow tremendously and then he left and I brought Esportsjohn. The cycle continues friend. Also I have a really good replacement for myself who has top notch analysis that makes mine look weak in comparison. Ah damn, that's too bad. I really liked your casting and I'll be blunt here and say you improved a lot over time. Your analysis and game knowledge is way better now and it really turned you from a decent caster into a good one. It's a shame that you have to quit now but it's perfectly understandable. I wish you the best of luck. Who is this replacement you are talking about? All good things must come to an end at some point :/ I have a friend named Jaeyun, maybe people have heard of him. He's a fantastic Zerg player (top 150 USW) who's been starting to commentate games a bit and his analysis is great. He's talked to me about taking my spot. The only issue is that tuesdays might not work out for him but we'll see. The cycle continues! We will have our legacy . Also, I'll be back in 2018. Never surrender! good to heard,it kind of made me sad how important u were for bw in 2017 then dissapeared but having a new born is obviously first second and third priority
I'm glad you noticed <3.
I seriously thought I'd have more time lolol. But I'm raising an awesome kid. 6 months old now and he's already watched some great ASL games. I hope he can enjoy seeing his father take back to the microphone.
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On November 14 2017 00:11 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 11:29 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 13 2017 06:41 Barneyk wrote:On November 13 2017 05:22 Burned Toast wrote:
Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. I really should, I just rewatched that exacr sequence and he called it just like it was instead of focusing on something else. Artosis and Tasteless both have far better understanding of the game than I do but they so often fail to mention crucial aspects of what is happening, no matter how obvious it is. Sometimes they call really interesting details that I miss, but just as often they miss huge obvious things. I almost always watch the games on youtube later in the day with anticipation addon so I don't get spoiled with the duration, but for the next season I think I am gonna go with FlashFTW anyway, I always mess up the spoil the duration for myself somehow anyway. d-do i tell him that I'm retiring from ASL casting? O.O On November 13 2017 10:02 niteReloaded wrote:On November 13 2017 09:40 Rainalcar wrote:
Flash is similar to Klitschko brothers. He/they reached greatest heights in BW/boxing, but to the (arguably) boring styles of play (playing Terran, methodical, almost computer-like approach/distance jabs) and overwhelming dominance, not too many people actually care. I dare to say that Flash's dominance is detrimental for BW. Let's see where do we go from here. I agree. I think most people would agree that having one person being so good means the beauty of the game remains 'hidden' because the games are such rolls. On November 13 2017 08:54 Starlightsun wrote:On November 13 2017 08:04 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5?
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning I hope this is not true. Sadly, it makes sense. JD and Bisu not competing means there's less chance of someone challenging Flash. ASL5 would be like a teacher competing vs students in school... heck, even the studio for the finals wasn't nearly full. They COULD make a new type of show that would somehow build it's intrigue, suspense and thrill on the fact that Flash IS such a dominant figure. Make him the guy to 'decapitate'... some type of new vibe show. I also agree with this sentiment that too dominant of a player does indeed make the games unfun to watch. As much as I love FlaSh, it's exciting when he has this rival that can stand up to him and have a good chance of upsetting him. When he loses, everyone loses their heads and everyone is cheering for the underdog because he's been at the top for so long. Really wished Larva or SK met him in the finals, I think it would have been extremely competitive but alas, no dice. As a Flash fan, I feel sad that almost everyone feels this way. Let me ask people here a question — how many can honestly say they would feel the same way if JD were the one in Flash’s shoes? How many people felt the same way about Jordan or Gretzky? Why is Flash not looked upon as favorably as other players? He doesnt have a bad personality. He has a lot of interesting and funny quirks (twitching, pocari, ruler). Its also not like he burst onto the scene and just dominated, he went thru a lot of really tough losses before rising to the top.
Letmelose has some good points so read his post. I wanted to add a little bit of a personal answer so here is mine.
First of, Jordan or Gretzky (who's that?) is really different because those are playing a team sport. A single guy might be extra-ordinarily dominant but he can't do nothing without his team so it balances out. We experience the same thing for whole teams though. I'm not into football at all but in Germany we have a team called Bayern München which has been dominant for as long as I can remember and apparently it has been even worse for the past few seasons. They are winning each season with a sizeable gap and people are bored of it.
As for Jaedong: I'm a Jaedong fan and I'm not entirely sure. Jaedong never had the same feel of dominance to him as Flash if that makes sense and that's because of the race. I'm not talking about any imbalance here but zerg is a lot more volatile than terran. You could lose to a random cheese, weird strategy or something really quick as a zerg while terran, being the race that can defend best, often has options to defend it. It also doesn't help that terran lategame armies and defenses are very solid while a zerg army can melt much more quickly, creating an opportunity for the opponent to turn the game around. Those I think are the main factors why it _felt_ easier to upset Jaedong in his dominant time than to upset Flash. Flash never had the best micro or the best multi-tasking. However, he had the best game sense and his macro was second to none. That way it seemed like he was maphacking, basically scouting or just knowing everything his opponent did and if you know everything and have the best macro you will roll every opponent. Combine that with what I said above about the race and you get an unbreakable feeling of dominance.
All that said though, it's also about for how long of a period a player is dominating. Even though I loved Jaedong I loved it when players could take a game off of Jaedong in a satisfying manner (means no cheese, no timing push, no lame strategy). This is why I loved Bisu, Zero, Fantasy or Hwasin playing Jaedong for example - as opposed to ForGG playing Jaedong for example... It was always exciting and I liked both outcomes. Flash period of dominance was longer than Jaedong's as far as I remember and it was a lot more boring than Jaedong's as well because of the reasons I stated in the previous paragraph. I really don't care a lot about success or superficial things and they don't influence me becoming a fan. I want exciting play, that's all. What that exciting play is can of course be different from what it is for you. For me, Flash's play isn't exciting anymore. I still find it impressive, I'm not denying that, but it grew old pretty quickly.
I hope that makes a little sense.
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By the way, this is happening in chess right now as well. Magnus Carlsen is, much like Flash, a complete player with very few weaknesses. Every few months the community roots for a particular player that has been doing well, hoping that Carlsen will be dethroned, but his victories keep coming and he crushes everyone. The last world championship contender got completely dismantled by him, it was almost boring to watch, unless you really enjoy the game and the subtle novelties that he comes up with and his incredible level of skill.
Just like in chess, if a new champion is going to arise, it will be another complete player, not someone that can come up with clever tricks to catch Flash off guard. Bisu I think is the other very strong player, but he has never been strong enough, and now he's no longer a threat.
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All really good points, and all of it I probably already knew before reading them.
I guess what I was kind of trying to say, almost subconsciously, is that I know Flash was never that popular to begin with; and that is fine. But I feel that a lot of people are hiding behind the "too dominant is boring" rationale to cheer against Flash. They have other "motives", if you could call it that. Such as maybe being a Zerg player, for example, and feeling upset because they feel that TvZ is unfair. And maybe we cant blame them for not just coming out and saying they think that because we frown against balance whining. So instead of saying "I wish Flash would lose coz Terran is OP", they say "I wish Flash would lose coz I'm bored of him winning all the time".
I'm calling people out because even though there are obviously people who genuinely cheer against Flash in order to have more exciting games, I think there are a lot who cheer against him because of "other reasons". Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but be honest and come out and say it.
And again, I fully understand why cheering against Flash is fun. When Flash wins, it can range from shit to epic. But when Flash loses, it can only be epic.
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too bad deepmind went after sc2, i mean i get that sc2 is way more mainstream and likely has better interface into the game but flash is the real prize
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I just wanted to add that it is wrong to think that just being succesful suffices for ultimate greatness - it is also about the WAY you do it. Another comparison with sports, you had plenty of football teams dominating with defensive, pragmatic styles, but nobody really cares that much. In the minds of people it will be Brazil, Barcelona, etc. because there was something more to it, there was something memorable. Messi will be remembered, incredible defensive players? Much less. Flash is impressive, but in many ways, do I dare to say it? Boring. Maybe he should change race (half-joking ).
Also, I do think that the lack of Flash's popularity is partially due to him playing Terran, just like a (small, but important) part of his success lies there.
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On November 13 2017 05:46 EndingLife wrote:
Bonyth reaching 3K MMR is pretty damn impressive. What's even more impressive is his record... 60-11, 101-41, 97-34. Getting that MMR in that few games is just SICK. Good job Bonyth!
That is way after Kespa era.
In 2010 there were the top pro, the the pro, then the half pro and then the top amateurs. The best 5 foreigners were able to compete with the top amateurs, no more then that.
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I love me some Flash dominance but he kind of broke the game and nobody will ever come close to him until his age catches up to him. He will retire at his prime, sadly. Maybe we've already seen the best P or Z and just won't admit that at the highest human-level BW, Terran has a huge advantage and only Flash has been able to figure it out and execute properly
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Each race has something that makes it exciting. Zergs are constantly living on the edge --- whether because they are being greedy or because they are attacking ruthlessly, they're always one false step away from disaster, but their flanking and counterattacks are feared by the other races. Protosses have their fireworks --- psionic storms, reaver drops, recalls. Terrans, even since Boxer, have stood for versatility and special tactics using tanks, drops, and terrain advantage. Their best offensive unit is also their best defensive unit --- there's no better way to destroy the opponent's base than to "defend" it from your opponent using siege tanks on high ground.
Terran doesn't have any worthwhile melee-range units. Zealots can crash into tank lines and scourges can be among the most exciting and unstable units in the game, but 95% of the time a Terran player who is not sheltering their army under siege tanks is just not playing properly. (Bio TvZ is excepted, but nonetheless, marines outrange muta+ling and siege tanks are often used to defeat lurkers. The range advantage stays with Terran.) This aspect of Terran play is not Flash's fault. He has learned and incorporated the best that any other Terran player has ever offered (with the notable exception of Fantasy's gift for vulture chaos) and then added a lot of his own.
I too found it a little disappointing that neither Bisu nor Hero could come closer to beating him, but I would not chalk such disappointment up to Flash's style. Rather I would say that this is what Terran looks like, and we need more Zergs and Protosses to show us what the next level of their races looks like (if the game is indeed balanced). Several of them are close.
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EPT
