EPT[ASL4] Grand Finals Flash vs Hero - Page 27
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wallace black
5 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4735 Posts
I was very pleased with the way hero approached the series. 3hatch before pool in game 1 and the battle zergish build in game 2 could both have worked. But 8rax can just happen (game1) and I am sure he had a good reason to expand towrds the terran in game 2... if the push came just 20 seconds later he probably could have held. Game 3 was just totally awesome, the game I enjoyed the most this ASL... That approach to Zerg play was just beautiful. I was impressed overall with hero, but of course, standing up to Flash is just too much to ask for nowadays. It is time that the best map created, Fighting Spirit, has to go. It had its run but the games played on this map are just not exciting anymore. Especially ZvT just seems ugly. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden310 Posts
It was such a crucial part of it and they just didn't mention it. Without it Flash would've been slaughtered running up the ramp but with +1 armor his marines survive 2 spines. Hero played great and that 3rd game was amazing. But Flash man, just, damn, Flash is pretty good at this game. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4735 Posts
On November 13 2017 02:14 outscar wrote: So Stephano's domination, Naniwa's multiple finals, Neeb winning korean tourney in korea which was done only once by Grrr ages ago and having one foreigner last and this year on semi's of Global Finals doesn't mean anything for you? This kind of feats for foreigners is impossible in BW, non koreans has less than 1% chance to keep up with mechanics. We can even look to ladder - Serral is N1 ranked on Korea server. What was the highest rank foreigner reached on Fish, probably C by Trutacz? FlaSh wasn't top player in SC2? Yes, he wasn't God of SC2 but he was improving, he needed time. He quickly reached finals right afterwards he switched into it. I don't even wanna go into DK theme, don't make me laugh pls. In my opinion it shows that SC2 just requires a different skill set than Brood War. Other players were just better at the game than Flash or Jaedong (both were past their prime anyways, especially Jaedong. And still Jaedong at least made it into one BlizzCon final). As was said, I believe the "finalized" gameplay of Brood War helps Flashs Skillset. A game that is constantly changing probably is not good for Flashs approach. He literally spent years in Brood War to exactly map out how much he could get away with - the result is this unbelievable display of skill where he always seems to have just the exact amount of units to stop aggression while building a stronger economy than his opponent and later crush him with his superior macro. All those dumb locking losses of Flash in ~2007-2009 were precisely because of that extreme cutting of corners any way possible... and when he finally mapped it all out in his mind in 2010-2011, he became god. But there have clearly been dominating players in SC2 history that were simply better than others. Of course foreigners are better in SC2 than in Brood War... The foreign Brood War scence was literally 10 years behind korea in professionalism. That cannot be said for SC2. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IGLeovx.jpg) Wow. The golden trophy actually says, "The One and Only God." | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On November 13 2017 03:58 usopsama wrote: Wow. The golden trophy actually says, "The One and Only God." They printed it on the trophy, knowing Flash would win. ASL confirmed scripted /s | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28785 Posts
Then game three was amazing. The constant lurker ling dark swarm drops onto the main production is exactly how zergs should approach the mech switch, I loooved how he actually used scourge as 'overlord shields' before the first one. Managing to get off the first one and destroy the turret wall meant that he could just continue doing it, and then Flash became too spread out to be able to defend his other expansions. It was probably the closest I've ever seen to flash 'falling apart' and losing his composure - which is a huge testament to how well hero did. then zvt on fighting spirit vs Flash sadly looks borderline impossible. He's just too good at it and it's so mapped out. | ||
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Rollora
2450 Posts
On November 13 2017 01:44 opisska wrote: This is common sentiment of BW fans but it's completely ignorant of the reality in SC2 competition. If the game is so volatile, why do upset of koreans by foreigners almost never happen? Why is the top players in tourneys always the same people? The previous post which is quoted here is also absurd. Flash just wasn't a top player in SC2. It wasn't "david kim's" fault, he just wasn't as good in it as he was in BW and a lot of his fame came from the hype around his BW results. Well... they happened regularly Apart from players not only upsetting but completely dominating (Stephano, Neeb.... the latter even causing troubles among Kespa) | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On November 13 2017 02:14 outscar wrote: So Stephano's domination, Naniwa's multiple finals, Neeb winning korean tourney in korea which was done only once by Grrr ages ago and having one foreigner last and this year on semi's of Global Finals doesn't mean anything for you? This kind of feats for foreigners is impossible in BW, non koreans has less than 1% chance to keep up with mechanics. We can even look to ladder - Serral is N1 ranked on Korea server. What was the highest rank foreigner reached on Fish, probably C by Trutacz? FlaSh wasn't top player in SC2? Yes, he wasn't God of SC2 but he was improving, he needed time. He quickly reached finals right afterwards he switched into it. I don't even wanna go into DK theme, don't make me laugh pls. Stephano's domination over whom? Mostly other foreigners and a couple of "travelling koreans". Zero success in Korea proper. The only really remarkable thing was Neeb's run and that was partly oponent luck. In any case, SC2 has a much greater organisational suppprt for whites to be successful and it is still not remotely enough. You can't directly compare results when the ecosystems of the games are so different. | ||
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Miragee
8657 Posts
On November 13 2017 04:56 Rollora wrote: Well... they happened regularly Apart from players not only upsetting but completely dominating (Stephano, Neeb.... the latter even causing troubles among Kespa) Upsets happened a lot in SC2 back when I was watching it. Compare that to BW. Foreigners _never_ won vs koreans after 2005 until the end of the Kespa era in a BO3 and very, very, VERY rarely they could win a Bo1. | ||
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
On November 13 2017 03:52 Barneyk wrote: It bothered me to no end that they commentators didn't bring up that Flash was waiting for armor +1 to finish before running up to Heros third in the last game. It was such a crucial part of it and they just didn't mention it. Without it Flash would've been slaughtered running up the ramp but with +1 armor his marines survive 2 spines. Hero played great and that 3rd game was amazing. But Flash man, just, damn, Flash is pretty good at this game. Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28785 Posts
On November 13 2017 02:14 outscar wrote: So Stephano's domination, Naniwa's multiple finals, Neeb winning korean tourney in korea which was done only once by Grrr ages ago and having one foreigner last and this year on semi's of Global Finals doesn't mean anything for you? This kind of feats for foreigners is impossible in BW, non koreans has less than 1% chance to keep up with mechanics. We can even look to ladder - Serral is N1 ranked on Korea server. What was the highest rank foreigner reached on Fish, probably C by Trutacz? FlaSh wasn't top player in SC2? Yes, he wasn't God of SC2 but he was improving, he needed time. He quickly reached finals right afterwards he switched into it. I don't even wanna go into DK theme, don't make me laugh pls. Scan wrote that Dandy got A on fish. You're entirely right in that nonkoreans have performed way, way better in sc2 than in bw, but Dandy and Bonyth especially are good enough to take games from koreans that are at least pretty close to the top. | ||
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EndingLife
United States1600 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/6/64/SSL11_finals_venue2.jpg/800px-SSL11_finals_venue2.jpg) | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden310 Posts
On November 13 2017 05:22 Burned Toast wrote: Watch the FlashFTW cast of these matches, the guy has a really up to date understanding of the game/maps/strategies. He insisted on how crucial this was, indeed. I really should, I just rewatched that exacr sequence and he called it just like it was instead of focusing on something else. Artosis and Tasteless both have far better understanding of the game than I do but they so often fail to mention crucial aspects of what is happening, no matter how obvious it is. Sometimes they call really interesting details that I miss, but just as often they miss huge obvious things. I almost always watch the games on youtube later in the day with anticipation addon so I don't get spoiled with the duration, but for the next season I think I am gonna go with FlashFTW anyway, I always mess up the spoil the duration for myself somehow anyway.  | ||
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Jealous
10313 Posts
Shit I'm dumb, forgot about that lol. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1495 Posts
On November 13 2017 04:03 PVJ wrote: I wasn't able to watch the whole show, was there any news / announcement on ASL 5? Based on the lack of threads / comments, I guess not but anyone could confirm that would be great. No announcement or plans FBH said if there is no sign like that, it means there is no asl in planning | ||
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