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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
 Afreeca Starleague Season 3 Afreeca Starleague Season 3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZpDsafx.png) [ASL3] Finals Preview- God vs Bag of BuildsCasters & HostsStreamsAfreecaTV (FlashFTW and EsportsJohn) Twitch TV (Tasteless and Artosis) ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream Matchups and MapsResultsRecommended Games | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
3:1 | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
i actually dont know who to root for, or what games i want to see. part of me wants flash 3-0 shine complete destruction. other part of me wants shine 3-0 flash, like julyzerg vs best. hm.... lets just have some nice games. i hope for no (map) balance whine.... | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
On June 04 2017 14:35 c3rberUs wrote: I'm sorry, but to anyone hopeful, Shine will take not one game from FlaSh. What if he 4pools in Camelot | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
Really looking forward to seeing Shine trying to switch it up, and I'd be happy if he could take a game or two, not to mention win, as impossible as it sounds  But I'd be happy if we simply get an amazing game or two between these fantastic players. | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Trozz
Canada3454 Posts
Flash is his ultimate test. Let's hope for good games. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
Flash 3:2. Remember, Shine has got builds designed just to kill FlaSh!  | ||
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CUTtheCBC
Canada91 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On June 04 2017 16:14 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Shine takes it in 4 games! Finally someone who knows who they're talking about. For the overmind! Anyone up for a 2 week ban and sig bet? I say Shine takes this | ||
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ssj114
Afghanistan461 Posts
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ssj114
Afghanistan461 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ADCK7Xu.png) User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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zion
Belgium31 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
On June 04 2017 16:29 usopsama wrote: | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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[wh]_ForAlways
United States235 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
ban bets are rare these days | ||
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wfhbright
6 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
but GOD will take it ofc hype hype hype | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
I think it will be 3-0. | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On June 04 2017 17:17 wfhbright wrote: My account is still alive after all these years (haven't been here for... 6 years?)! Good to see some good Brood War again :D 1 post per year, peculiar | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4114 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
Everybody is voting for the underdog, good old times. | ||
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Ponder
United Kingdom66 Posts
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
FINALS HERE WE COME | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
Flash 3:1 | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
Don't ruin the finals with the English commentators. | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1710 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 17:53 usopsama wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlN7CiD4SF4 Don't ruin the finals with the English commentators. Korean commentators make Brood War what it is - in other news GO SHINE | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
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Kazi25
Philippines236 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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rotta
5585 Posts
HYPE | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 17:53 usopsama wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlN7CiD4SF4 Don't ruin the finals with the English commentators. Tastetosis is fine, Rapid should be fired though. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:03 Disregard wrote: The quad-copter noise in the bg or static? That's the sound of God's presence ripping the fabric of space. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
On June 04 2017 17:49 YASHSHAKAR wrote: Shines wife left him during the playoffs. He has everything on the line with this matchup. I dont think he can pull off the win but man if he does holy crap lol. Flash 3:1 Wat. Is this actually true? | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:04 usopsama wrote: That's the sound of God's presence ripping the fabric of space. I wish he'd stop for a bit jeez | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Ubersturmfuhrer
Finland206 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:04 Disregard wrote: Tastetosis is fine, Rapid should be fired though. No, they are terrible, too. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:07 Ubersturmfuhrer wrote: I wish they had made this a Bo7 series.. Bo7s can stay out of bw as far as I'm concerned. The best final format is Bo5 with games 1 and 5 on the same map, and I won't hear anything to the contrary - that is BW at it's purest for me. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15900 Posts
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Yakota
Australia112 Posts
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
Im still salty about Shine breaking Flash 17 or something win streak with one of his retarded builds. | ||
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Zabimaru
United Kingdom132 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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Facet
43 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:08 usopsama wrote: HYPEEEEEEEEE Agreed. Edit: Those moth sounds, though. | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:18 usopsama wrote: Wow. Shine has two sons. and just divorced | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
He said he was separated from his sons recently, so I'd take that to mean that she left. | ||
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Arrian
United States889 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
Good to see that some things don't change. Opponents come and go but Flash is still here crushing them all xD | ||
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kjwcj
Australia1064 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:22 FlaShFTW wrote: LEE YOUNG HO HWAITING! Good morning, sunshine! | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:23 bovienchien wrote: I don't know who's win but I think that result of this match is 3 - 0 This isn't Sea vs Bisu though. | ||
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
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rotta
5585 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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sAw
965 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:24 rotta wrote: It's really hard not to root for Shine tbh ? Shine has played dumb builds for years. How is it even possible to cheer for him | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
BLUE FISH GUYS IT'S TIME FOR JACK TO BE NIMBLE | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
Flash 3-2 | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
IT'S A FAKE, He's going in with speed lings :D | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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Arrian
United States889 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Akara12345
164 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
BUT IM READY TO BE WOWED SHINE | ||
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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riotjune
United States3392 Posts
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
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kjwcj
Australia1064 Posts
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lestye
United States4149 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
Those lurkers were going to be waaaaay too late to do fatal damage | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:33 Akara12345 wrote: wtf wrong schedule on TL again?? do I just have to subtract 30 mins from your schedule from now on? The times are right tho? It said the event would start 38mins ago. And it did? | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:39 NarutO wrote: Does anyone actually think shine has a shot? :X bisu has a better chance | ||
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ggsimida
1147 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:39 TheNewEra wrote: The times are right tho? . It said the event would start 38mins ago. And it did? yeah it was right. it definitely started 5am EST. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:39 NarutO wrote: Does anyone actually think shine has a shot? :X I think it will be clean 3-0. Unless he lucky 4 pools Flash. It appears Flash is weak against such builds :D | ||
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
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alypse
2771 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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lestye
United States4149 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:39 NarutO wrote: Does anyone actually think shine has a shot? :X not a legitmate shot, but i figured he make be able to catch players off guard. but with a player as efficient as flash, and with his game sense, its not going to be enough. | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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Akara12345
164 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:39 TheNewEra wrote: The times are right tho? It said the event would start 38mins ago. And it did? A while ago when I hovered over the time it said 4:30 ICT (which is 11 mins ago). This has happened way too many times. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15900 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6527 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:40 thezanursic wrote: Holy fuck, that was such a great strategy, if he wasn't playing Flash, I'm certain it could have worked. ? It was way too late to do anything, even if it wasn't scouted and even if Flash didn't find the base... | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:37 ShloobeR wrote: 'better just check this min only' The post-game glance at Shine by Flash. 'You came to the finals expecting that to work?' | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
Flash noticed something didnt add up and played it safe. Shine seemed late on the drop thou. | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
 ?and yes, I realize that if Shine brought it out here, it must have worked a reasonable % of the time in practice | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:45 Waxangel wrote: dunno, am I the only one who thinks that's just a bad strategy, regardless of opponent ?Too late and too big of a gamble. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:41 Akara12345 wrote: A while ago when I hovered over the time it said 4:30 ICT (which is 11 mins ago). This has happened way too many times. well... haven't heard this from anyone else. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:47 PVJ wrote: JD 15 thousand viewers, Terror 35 thousand Afreeca Korea another 25 thousand, English hovering 10 thousand. Crazy! This is less tho than some of the groupstages last season | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:47 PVJ wrote: TL no longer features Terror's stream on the sidebar. Is this because of his infamy?JD 15 thousand viewers, Terror 35 thousand Afreeca Korea another 25 thousand, English hovering 10 thousand. Crazy! | ||
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:47 PVJ wrote: JD 15 thousand viewers, Terror 35 thousand Afreeca Korea another 25 thousand, English hovering 10 thousand. Crazy! Tangent from BW: The entire Afreeca system of running their own leagues and then encouraging their signed streamers to cast them makes me wonder how that would work in the west w/ Twitch. | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:47 TheNewEra wrote: well... haven't heard this from anyone else. It was always 5:00 EDT or 9:00 UTC on the calendar | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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rotta
5585 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:48 Waxangel wrote: Tangent from BW: The entire Afreeca system of running their own leagues and then encouraging their signed streamers to cast them makes me wonder how that would work in the west w/ Twitch. Twitch has bits, which are basically balloons. I guess they can use that to their advantage for more popular streamers. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:49 Disregard wrote: It was always 5:00 EDT or 9:00 UTC on the calendar Yeah... no clue where he gets this from | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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rotta
5585 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:58 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Did he kill 1 muta? I didnt see ~.~ yeah | ||
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Arrian
United States889 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:00 BLinD-RawR wrote: Delayed mech I guess with 2-gas? | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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Nebula
England780 Posts
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sAw
965 Posts
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JWD[9]
364 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:59 ZiggyPG wrote: isnt mech stronger than sk terran on camelot? Its not like it matters lol. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Fish_Baguettes
Australia589 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
flash: lol | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:04 Epithet wrote: That drop was awesome. Barely killed off those lurkers! Shine gave Flash all the time to kill them, idle for awhile when Flash dropped his natural up front | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:04 HKTPZ wrote: If only he was mechanically on par with Larva/Effort/SKShine really proving himself today as a legitimate and worthy competitor | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
The fact that Flash managed to beat him while he had lurkers and defilers says alot. | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:58 Arrian wrote: Why does he always do SK Terran? Because it's safe for Terran in front of every zerg player! | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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njoe
Sweden26 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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sAw
965 Posts
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:05 Terrorbladder wrote: If only he was mechanically on par with Larva/Effort/SK Thats the scary thing. Shine got all the way to a final despite being so awful only thanks to abusing Fog of War. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:56 Waxangel wrote: How many games did Flash play 1rax into fast +1 before this in TvZ this season? Almost all of them? the last two gaems werent fast +1. they were standard +1 timings. fast +1 is fast gas into ebay immediately rather than academy first. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:07 HKTPZ wrote: Thats the scary thing. Shine got all the way to a final despite being so awful only thanks to abusing Fog of War. thats not being awful. thats called playing to your strengths. if your opponents suck vs fog of war abuse then they dont deserve to make it to the finals. they played Shine's game which is why they lost. FlaSh is making him play to his game which is why hes getting crushed right now. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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psiANIDe
Korea (South)47 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
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HalcyonRain
United States124 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:12 FlaShFTW wrote: That's Shine's younger sister lol.is that shine's ex-wife? O.O | ||
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Akara12345
164 Posts
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:12 Waxangel wrote: why would they interview his family before the execution :'( this fighting! | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:13 Disregard wrote: Bisu vs Flash would've been a more enjoyable 3-0 Flash 3-0ing Bisu would lead to some suicides in this forum tho | ||
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Ubersturmfuhrer
Finland206 Posts
Nerf Flash! Maybe he could start games with 3 scvs? | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:12 Waxangel wrote: why would they interview his family before the execution :'( Out of nowhere, Shine decided to pull out the "delay of game" build out of his bag. Truly a force to be reckoned with. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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psiANIDe
Korea (South)47 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:14 TheNewEra wrote: Flash 3-0ing Bisu would lead to some suicides in this forum tho I'd rather see Bisu lose to Flash than to Shine. Wait... fuck. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:15 VioleTAK wrote: Shine's dream is to give the trophy to his grandma... flash could give him the trophy to give to her. Com'on Flash be a gentlegod. That's like a huge BM | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:15 VioleTAK wrote: Shine's dream is to give the trophy to his grandma... flash could give him the trophy to give to her. Com'on Flash be a gentlegod. then flash is like: ok shine give it back now. | ||
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Starecat
934 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:13 Terrorbladder wrote: inb4 Jaedong is O_Oing on the stream With the sister? | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:17 usopsama wrote: What did Britney say? yeah stargirl gave a "WOW" look so im curious too. | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:17 Waxangel wrote: I know Bo5 is tradition, but beyond that reason, I don't know why we can't just go to Bo7 for finals/semis because if we get a tvt no one will get the subway after the match ends | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:17 Waxangel wrote: I know Bo5 is tradition, but beyond that reason, I don't know why we can't just go to Bo7 for finals/semis now now you dont want to see shine get 4:0d do you? | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:17 ZiggyPG wrote: friend chicken for everyone! I want some friend chicken. | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:17 Waxangel wrote: I know Bo5 is tradition, but beyond that reason, I don't know why we can't just go to Bo7 for finals/semis Because then we get even fewer upsets than we already do. | ||
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
How were the games so far? | ||
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njoe
Sweden26 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:18 xccam wrote: Because then we get even fewer upsets than we already do. are upsets good? | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
MAKE IT COUNT SHINE. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:18 Arvendilin wrote: OMG I thought it would start at 12 not 11, fuck me... How were the games so far? as Flashs whole career. Everyone tries to throw weirdness at him and he makes it look boring | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15900 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:18 arbiter_md wrote: Flash could exchange the trophy for the sister. Temporary of course just temporary? | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
On June 04 2017 18:45 Waxangel wrote: dunno, am I the only one who thinks that's just a bad strategy, regardless of opponent ?and yes, I realize that if Shine brought it out here, it must have worked a reasonable % of the time in practice I think it's a great strategic opening for a ling heavy mid game. It got him a fast 3rd, sort of uncontested, it made Flash waste 2 scans that still kept him in the dark, and Shine got to kill a free group of mm because of the massive high ground advantage. I think that would be reasonable trade for taking a later 3rd gas, but earlier 4th. Not something Shine opted to do, and I don't play Zerg, but I personally really like the idea of that opening. It's map specific, but it might give you enough time rush to hive tech without giving up all map control, so more units and better eco (instead of sunkens) behind your hive tech. Just theory-crafting here, so feel free to debunk my thoughts if I'm way off. | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
Some people like it when the inferior player lucks out - for mysterious reasons | ||
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Kazi25
Philippines236 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:21 HKTPZ wrote: Some people like it when the inferior player lucks out - for mysterious reasons would you like it if we have the next 5 years only Flash wins? | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:18 Arvendilin wrote: OMG I thought it would start at 12 not 11, fuck me... How were the games so far? You can scroll back in time on the live YouTube streams! Skip the commercials, etc. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:21 Snorkels wrote: Ready? FIGHT! "FINISH HIM!" Just 10 more minutes ;-) | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Sr18
Netherlands1141 Posts
Would you watch if the favourite always wins? | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:22 TheNewEra wrote: would you like it if we have the next 5 years only Flash wins? Sure. I would even be ok with 5 years of effOrt's wins :D | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
Not inherently, but you want them to happen with enough regularity to prevent the best player winning everything always. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40187 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2261 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2261 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:33 KobraKay wrote: It seems this is the "1" in the 3-1 prediction. No problema. ROFL....sorry for doubting Flash. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
. GGs | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:35 Heartland wrote: Is this really how "shut down" looks? Well Flash can't kill Shine if Shine just leaves the game | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
Shine got erased from this series | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
Flash with some solid play, too good, too good. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
If he used that time to set up I think he would've been able to hold, but he's just not the best at using defilers compared to some other zergs. | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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China10252 Posts
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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Shalashaska_123
United States142 Posts
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
WP Flash | ||
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4718 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:37 Amui wrote: Just not quite enough from Shine, that attack on Flash's natural cost him the game. If he used that time to set up I think he would've been able to hold, but he's just not the best at using defilers compared to some other zergs. Yeah I completely agree. He shouldn't have gone for that break, he lost too much in the process. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 nurle wrote: This was straight up boring :S JD needs to step up big time. Only player who can challenge Flash FanTaSy too, but he's in the army | ||
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sAw
965 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 Loccstana wrote: ERASSSUUU Flash official now a Bonjwa You are a little late to the party ;-) | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 nurle wrote: This was straight up boring :S JD needs to step up big time. Only player who can challenge Flash Larva could do it! | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 sparklyresidue wrote: Fun games but I think maybe if Shine and Soulkey had exchanged places we might have had closer games. Soulkey legit put a lot of pressure on Flash in that Ro4, this shit was ez | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 EatingBomber wrote: Forgive me, but was Flash really that far behind as Tastosis were making out? I saw he lost a lot of marines when he moved out the first ~3 times, but he didnt seem to be affected... Vs Effort/SK/JD/Larva Flash would have been behind but not vs Shine | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4220 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 sparklyresidue wrote: Fun games but I think maybe if Shine and Soulkey had exchanged places we might have had closer games. Well remember the semis then as if it was the finals. Erase shine's games from history 0 | ||
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On June 04 2017 16:48 FiWiFaKi wrote: 2 week ban and 9 month sig Please ban Fiwi for 2 weeks. Thanks | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
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psiANIDe
Korea (South)47 Posts
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
Wow perfect gameplay by Flash. GG See you in Remastered Next Season!! | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:39 Dante08 wrote: Vs Effort/SK/JD/Larva Flash would have been behind but not vs Shine So Shine is garbage? | ||
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
He's a gimmick | ||
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CUTtheCBC
Canada91 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
He's good but not in standard games which is how he got this far. When it comes to standard macro zerg play he is wayy behind those mentioned earlier. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
He's cheesy and unorthodox. He's not gonna beat Flash mechanically if his unorthodox build doesn't work out. Flash can beat him by endlessly throwing units at him and harassing all over the map like he just did. | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:40 CDRdude wrote: He stayed on 2 gas for a very long time. And spent gas on Mutas+Lurkers+Carapace upgradeThose vessels were uncontested for a really long time, did shine not have the gas to squeeze in a few scourge earlier? | ||
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
OSL/ASL format has always allowed for unexpected runs, even CHAMPIONSHIP runs (Casy, etc). | ||
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HKTPZ
105 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:43 ortseam wrote: That was Shine's wife I guess? Younger sister | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:43 HKTPZ wrote: 3-0 with all games finished before 15min.3-0 doesnt really do justice to how superior Flash is to Shine This series was basically won through superior multitasking with a dash of starsense. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:42 Waxangel wrote: OSL/ASL format has always allowed for unexpected runs, even CHAMPIONSHIP runs (Casy, etc). pls. Casy is one of the all time greats the only thing holding him back was his tvp. Otherwise we would still hail him as the Neo Emperor | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:43 ortseam wrote: That was Shine's wife I guess? would be awkward if Shines wife would be there for an interview | ||
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
Flash with the 20 Mill. Nice. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:47 YASHSHAKAR wrote: Shine gets 5 Mill Korean money, so thats like what? 5 Grand? Flash with the 20 Mill. Nice. The extra payday comes when both of them start their streams. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:45 Waxangel wrote: Imagine if the order of Movie's career was reversed, where he is mediocre/disapppointing for a few years FIRST, and then randomly makes a finals run before getting smashed by Flash. That's sorta what Shine is (obv not a perfect analogy). Makes you think about how context makes you look differently at the same result. I don't think I've seen a finals run by a player as gimmicky as Shine. Movie sure wasn't when he suddenly got good only to fall apart. | ||
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rotta
5585 Posts
No end in sight for Flash's reign. | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
"I lost to THIS guy?" | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4114 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:39 Epithet wrote: I wonder if Bisu vs Flash would have not been a stomp. Flash looks unbeatable in a best of 5 No, Bisu always put a good fight against Flash, 3:2 or 3:1 for Flash with games being competitive. Unfortunately, Bisu got sick vs Shine, he probably also choked, not sure about that though, more likely it was due to his sickness and we had to have noncompetitive final | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:50 Terrorbladder wrote: Bisu probably kicking himself in the nuts rn. "I lost to THIS guy?" For the second time | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
<3 Flash, what more can be said... Well done Shine on a fantastic season. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
Third time. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50102 Posts
Poll: Recommend game 1? No (15) Yes (13) If you have time (4) 32 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 1? Poll: Recommend game 2? Yes (14) No (12) If you have time (5) 31 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 2? Poll: Recommend game 3? Yes (16) If you have time (8) No (5) 29 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 3? Poll: Recommend game 4? Yes (11) If you have time (7) No (5) 23 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 4? | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:45 Waxangel wrote: Imagine if the order of Movie's career was reversed, where he is mediocre/disapppointing for a few years FIRST, and then randomly makes a finals run before getting smashed by Flash. That's sorta what Shine is (obv not a perfect analogy). Makes you think about how context makes you look differently at the same result. His run was completely different. He had actually skill and was exceeding at hard matchup (pvz), where the likes of Bisu and other dragoons were losing. Also his games vs Flash in finals were quite close and he managed to take one win, without cheesing. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
In fact has Bisu actually won an offline series against him? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13000 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10106 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:55 RowdierBob wrote: So who of the current crop is good enough to take out Flash in a bo5? I feel maybe Best or Soulkey. Anyone else? And please don't throw Bisu or Last at me. Last if he doesn't get read by a book. EffOrt when he returns back to old form. BeSt as well. Those are my top 3 picks. SoulKey only got close because of a stupid 4 pool BO win. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:55 RowdierBob wrote: So who of the current crop is good enough to take out Flash in a bo5? I feel maybe Best or Soulkey. Anyone else? And please don't throw Bisu or Last at me. BeSt. BeSt only loses to himself never to his opponent. If BeSt is in the mood no chance for Flash. Flash is not even close to the one tru god | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:55 RowdierBob wrote: So who of the current crop is good enough to take out Flash in a bo5? I feel maybe Best or Soulkey. Anyone else? And please don't throw Bisu or Last at me. I'd say Larva is as likely as Soulkey, unless he keeps not doing well in offline competitions. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:53 TheNewEra wrote: In fact has Bisu actually won an offline series against him? Nope. They had an even record during the KeSPA era due to Proleague matches, but Shine has bested Bisu in every series they've had. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:55 RowdierBob wrote: So who of the current crop is good enough to take out Flash in a bo5? I feel maybe Best or Soulkey. Anyone else? And please don't throw Bisu or Last at me. Last, when Flash isn't in revenge mode. When Flash is in revenge mode, then no one can win. | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
On June 04 2017 15:22 arbiter_md wrote: My prediction is, Shine will manage to kill at most 10 units (including his own) in all 3 games combined. Anybody care to count? | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
Shine killed more than 10 units in game 3 alone. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:53 TheNewEra wrote: In fact has Bisu actually won an offline series against him? Shines entire career verges on the fact he keeps beating Bisu. Damn you Shine! *shakes fist* | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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azrael1965
13 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:07 azrael1965 wrote: Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the tournament is below a player of his caliber and this formatWhy isn't Flash in the SSL? "Qualification Fans vote eight players into the tournament" | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:07 azrael1965 wrote: Why isn't Flash in the SSL? Officially? Because the top players didn't agree with the voting system. Inofficially (read: the reasons they gave at first) because they didn't want to/were exhausted/felt it took to much time up(streaming is the real money) | ||
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azrael1965
13 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:09 TheNewEra wrote: Officially? Because the top players didn't agree with the voting system. Inofficially (read: the reasons they gave at first) because they didn't want to/were exhausted/felt it took to much time up(streaming is the real money) Most Games are just Best of One. The Elimination Stage is Best of 3 and the price pool isn't that bad. 8600$ for the winner 4300$ for second place and there is even money for the regular season games. Effort got 2K by winning 6 Best of One games. | ||
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:09 Terrorbladder wrote: Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the tournament is below a player of his caliber and this format "Qualification Fans vote eight players into the tournament" No I'm pretty sure it has to do with Afreeca stepping in and telling players like Bisu and Flash to exclusively compete in their league, Afreeca doesn't want competition. | ||
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nwDanon
12 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:09 TheNewEra wrote: Officially? Because the top players didn't agree with the voting system. Inofficially (read: the reasons they gave at first) because they didn't want to/were exhausted/felt it took to much time up(streaming is the real money) Most of those players are sponsored and supported by Afreeca, I think it has more to do with Afreeca having a monopoly over the new BW scene. | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
Flash would've won anyway if he played more standard and solid. That it turned out into an utter domination is testament of his strategic superiority as well. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
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azrael1965
13 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:22 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Flash can't be beat, good luck JD and Bisu fanboys, tried so hard to believe something new could work vs old fashioned godly mechanics, I guess not This is Flashs era. But eventually he will be dethroned as well. It's like in Go or Chess where a champion can rule for years and just proves that broodwar has a much higher ceiling then starcraft 2. But somehow I have the feeling that Flash will be Bonjwa with the longest reign. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:26 Essbee wrote: Took the subway for more than an hour for this Only over an hour? Consider yourself lucky! | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
^ lol. Keep safe yo | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19219 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:55 RowdierBob wrote: So who of the current crop is good enough to take out Flash in a bo5? I feel maybe Best or Soulkey. Anyone else? And please don't throw Bisu or Last at me. Best, Last, Effort (why not Bisu on a good day?). | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4969 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:22 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Flash can't be beat, good luck JD and Bisu fanboys, tried so hard to believe something new could work vs old fashioned godly mechanics, I guess not JD was actually the only zerg capable of holding Flash relentless pushes and is actually the one who once bested him in pure macro games. But right now probably not, it is true. | ||
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Stax736
United States119 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:55 RowdierBob wrote: So who of the current crop is good enough to take out Flash in a bo5? I feel maybe Best or Soulkey. Anyone else? And please don't throw Bisu or Last at me. Snow, Effort, Movie, JD, Best, maybe Larva, maybe Jangbi, maybe Free, maybe Stork, maybe Horang2, Soulkey, Last and Bisu. Even though Last lost in a Bo5, imo he's the second best player right now. He's just so strong. In online matches Flash struggles a lot against Best and Effort. The problem is some of these players like Snow, Stork, and Movie couldn't get past the Ro24 they just choke. | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:53 c3rberUs wrote: ^ lol. Keep safe yo I'm spacing out so hard that I nearly missed getting on my subway and then subsequently nearly missed getting off | ||
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njoe
Sweden26 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
SK will go deep in ASL4 and be a top contender. Surely Top 3 Zerg right now. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4719 Posts
But the difference in skill was so huge, I think there is not much to analyse. I hope a zerg player finally comes up with something better than just rushing to Defilers. It is neither fun to watch not very succesful these days. And I hope that the level of play increases. As much as I enjoy watching the games these days, the difference to the classic era is very visible. | ||
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Stax736
United States119 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:58 letian wrote: JD was actually the only zerg capable of holding Flash relentless pushes and is actually the one who once bested him in pure macro games. But right now probably not, it is true. Flash loses more often to Effort nowadays. Effort's style of play troubles Flash. JD will now be in the brutal preliminaries of the ASL, there is a high chance he doesn't even make it to the Ro24. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Game 1 was weird so let's forget that one lol. Game 2 was pretty nice I feel. The bunker vs lings in his base, Shine holding on and grabbing a third etc... I think people give credit to Flash already but let's face it, how many terrans have we seen recently or anytime in the last year go for an "exp bust" using dropships to snipe the defiler? It's unexpected and that's why it worked. Shine expected a drop in his main or third and defended for that, was caught offguard but that's a testament to Flash's skills and experience imo. I think he could've easily caught any other zerg offguard with that frontal drop as well. Was pretty cool to see but sad as a Shine fan going into this. Game 3 was decent enough as well. Shine's mutalisk micro is one of the best atm compared to say SK who was frankly terrible at using them in the semis vs Flash (except in game 5 oddly enough). I think Shine should've pushed once he broke the bunkers. He had another control group of units at his natural and Flash had only a handful of marines. Yes, it's risky but considering that Flash's macro is off the charts and his late game is solid, Shine would've had no chance if Flash kept the wheels turning so I feel like it was his best shot. He should've rallied everything outside Flash's natural then pushed in. Debatable if it's worth it but I feel like it could've been (he could've grabbed the fourth behind it too). | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:55 BisuDagger wrote: Unfortunately, this finals was too predictable. GGWP Flash. I like how you say unfortunately, when secretly like me you are cheering for the fact Shine is out of the tournament and he didn't win. He beat our boy, he got what he deserved. | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:57 Peeano wrote: Bisu would definitely be a top contender to take a bo5 off of Flash. Even against ssak, Bisu was vulnerable and PvT has always been Bisu's weakest match-up, so I think Flash would stomp Bisu in a bo5. I think right now only Best's godlike PvT can take on Flash. Even then Flash is the clear favourite. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40187 Posts
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GTR
51411 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Shine had real chance of success in g1 if he had killed the 3rd scouting scv and in g3 he overcomited with the attack on flash natural after killing his army numerous times, he shouldve just played calm and defensive starvation game and shut down every flash attack until gg. I guess its not the Shines temper to play calmer game. In general Shines style is much more suitable to zvp matchup, since toss can defend way harder than terran. No effective range units, slow army units, no 60 hp workers, no bunkers, no scans, no good ground to air units before templar tech, its just so easy for zerg surprises to work on Protoss by design and hard against terran. I felt like Soulkey style is the real answer against Flash and with some refinement he can destroy Flash for sure. And yeah, next season its time for Jangbanging! It will be awesome. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On June 04 2017 22:09 GTR wrote: next season it shall be the revenge of the jangbang. That's what me and my wife are hoping for :D | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Hopefully he doesn't disappoint. His SSL games are still fresh enough so ya ;; | ||
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Waxangel
United States33280 Posts
On June 04 2017 20:55 BisuDagger wrote: Unfortunately, this finals was too predictable. GGWP Flash. shocked that Shine got that many votes, even out of sympathy | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On June 04 2017 22:42 BigFan wrote: Hopefully he doesn't disappoint. His SSL games are still fresh enough so ya ;; Yeah I guess we might be expecting too much from him. I just hope he can surprise us again as he did during the OSLs a few years ago :D | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On June 04 2017 22:07 lolfail9001 wrote: Whoever predicted 5-0 was ultimately right. ^_^ JangBi needs to get the Bang back SK did push FlaSh to the limits but there just too many times when his control (especially scourge) was just not there especially in critical moments. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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kaspa84
Brazil169 Posts
On June 04 2017 22:54 Waxangel wrote: shocked that Shine got that many votes, even out of sympathy Hope springs eternal, even if it was obvious Flash was a huge favorite, i voted for Shine because he's so entertaining. | ||
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
>video thumbnail has Flash holding a trophy with his ASL jacket on Well at least that saved me two hours. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
On June 05 2017 00:39 Lazare1969 wrote: >check afreeca youtube channel to watch the series >video thumbnail has Flash holding a trophy with his ASL jacket on Well at least that saved me two hours. LMAO. Earlier this season they used to use the same non-spoiling thumbnail for all the matches which was very nice for this reason. Strange that they changed it again. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
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jinfreaks
United States94 Posts
On June 04 2017 19:38 EatingBomber wrote: Forgive me, but was Flash really that far behind as Tastosis were making out? I saw he lost a lot of marines when he moved out the first ~3 times, but he didnt seem to be affected... Once terran is pinned to base in that position, it is very easy for zerg to effortlessly get a 3rd gas, sometimes a 4th expo, and can bring out an army of ultralisks before terran can make an effective mech switch. Pretty much the only two choices that terran has in that situation is double expand into a mech switch, or if going the SK terran aggressive route, dropship play. The latter is what flash did and has practiced alot on stream. A zerg that far ahead only needs to be vigilant with scourge play, which Shine did not have for some unknown reason before damage was done. It became so hard to deal with that SHine just doesn't have the mechanical ability to control multiple defilers at once, whilst looking out for erasers. There are very few zergs that could cope with that situation effectively, many of whom are not in peak condition. A similar recent game to this, is Soulkey vs flash on Andromeda in the semifinals, though only holding back flash from doing any damage, but the planis quite similar, in the event terran doesnt give zerg a hard time getting 3rd gas. Even if the mech swtich holds off the first few salvos of the zerg ultralisks, there is a lot of time for zerg to also build up queen fleet to land the final blow on terran's double expansions thus ending the game. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden305 Posts
On June 05 2017 00:43 Cryoc wrote: LMAO. Earlier this season they used to use the same non-spoiling thumbnail for all the matches which was very nice for this reason. Strange that they changed it again. I think that the automated thumbnail when the stream ended is manually changed afterwards and then it takes a while to update through the system. So if you check to soon the thumbnail can still be a spoiler, but it gets changed eventually. That is how it works on youtube anyway. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden305 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
On June 05 2017 01:06 Barneyk wrote: If you would recommend 1 series of games from this season of ASL to a new, casual viewer, what series would you recommend? Shine vs Mong for entertainment purposes. | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On June 04 2017 23:15 r33k wrote: Hopefully this will lead to bringing up the point of bringing back maps with a safe third gas, or with smaller buildable/walkable paths behind mineral lines, but we all know it won't. I don't know if it's possible to make a safer third gas. I mean, what would that entail? These gas bases already have only 1 small ramp. The mineral line change I'd agree with. On June 05 2017 00:57 jinfreaks wrote: Once terran is pinned to base in that position, it is very easy for zerg to effortlessly get a 3rd gas, sometimes a 4th expo, and can bring out an army of ultralisks before terran can make an effective mech switch. Pretty much the only two choices that terran has in that situation is double expand into a mech switch, or if going the SK terran aggressive route, dropship play. The latter is what flash did and has practiced alot on stream. A zerg that far ahead only needs to be vigilant with scourge play, which Shine did not have for some unknown reason before damage was done. It became so hard to deal with that SHine just doesn't have the mechanical ability to control multiple defilers at once, whilst looking out for erasers. There are very few zergs that could cope with that situation effectively, many of whom are not in peak condition. A similar recent game to this, is Soulkey vs flash on Andromeda in the semifinals, though only holding back flash from doing any damage, but the planis quite similar, in the event terran doesnt give zerg a hard time getting 3rd gas. Even if the mech swtich holds off the first few salvos of the zerg ultralisks, there is a lot of time for zerg to also build up queen fleet to land the final blow on terran's double expansions thus ending the game. I mean, the problem is that Flash is behind if the expansions stay up and if it's easy for the zerg to take them. But Flash is literally so good at taking down the gas bases with stuff like dropship play and aggression. I don't think you can really say he's behind in situations like that. Most of his wins against Zerg come from the midgame right before the Zerg's gas bases kick in, where Flash goes for the timing push. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On June 05 2017 01:06 Barneyk wrote: If you would recommend 1 series of games from this season of ASL to a new, casual viewer, what series would you recommend? Shine vs Bisu. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden305 Posts
On June 05 2017 01:24 usopsama wrote: Shine vs Bisu. On June 05 2017 01:07 valaki wrote: Shine vs Mong for entertainment purposes. These are the 2 series that I came to think of as well, but I feel a bit unsure if they are as great if you have never really watched Broodwar before? For a new person maybe something like Flash vs. Soulkey would be better, more entertaining and easier to understand? | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Bisu vs sSak Mong vs Shine is good too but I dunno if a newcomer would appreciate it. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
Bisu vs sSak and Flash vs Soulkey. | ||
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Ubersturmfuhrer
Finland206 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On June 05 2017 01:06 Barneyk wrote: If you would recommend 1 series of games from this season of ASL to a new, casual viewer, what series would you recommend? Bisu vs sSak for sure. The results of this final was less than surprising and this was the real reason to be sad about Shine beating Bisu. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
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fanta[Rn]
Japan2465 Posts
Was within centimeters reach of both Flash and Shine. The atmosphere was hype even if the games were not much to look at. Stargirl was also just a couple of meters away. In the end, Britney signed my afreeca paper. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
After having watched the whole series I have to say that I am a bit disappointed how easily Flash rolled over Shine. I thought it will be closer than it was. Flash made it look so easy that you have to winder how the hell other guys could have lost to Shine... | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Lazyer
United States341 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden305 Posts
On June 05 2017 08:49 Plume wrote: damn game1 was so good, really shows how strong both players are imo Game 1 was good, but to me it really showed how dependent Shine is on cheesy builds and tactics when playing someone as mechanically good as Flash or Bisu. | ||
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ldv
United States103 Posts
If you hide a third base, you're going to make your opponent a) suspicious and b) defensive. To then go and do a very very slow, very very late lurker drop from that third base is suicidal! You've already made your opponent think something is up! And you let him think that for a solid 60-90 seconds before you even did anything with it! I firmly believe Shine missed something in his build. Also, he kept pulling Flash's army -toward- the place he was going to drop. What happens if Flash just... leaves a marine there. GG? I think Shine's build would have worked much much better if he had cut some production to drop a 'real' fake hatchery at the bottom left, something to pull flash's army out of his base and make him think Shine was just doing some different timings or something, anything to stop Flash from sitting in his base with all the suspicion in the world. This is just one chobo's opinion, though. I'm pretty sure even I would have known my opponent was going to drop the main. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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wswordsmen
United States987 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
i would also think that shine must have messed something up? | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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GTR
51411 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote: Won't irradiate deal splash damage to all lurkers burrowing in the same spot?a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks). | ||
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GTR
51411 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote: a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks). You do this if you are hopelessly behind | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19219 Posts
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote: a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks). I really like the move to put lings behind his high ground minerals so scan+marines would hit the lings over drones on the Andromeda in main mineral only expansion. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On June 05 2017 13:32 BisuDagger wrote: I really like the move to put lings behind his high ground minerals so scan+marines would hit the lings over drones on the Andromeda in main mineral only expansion. Agree, pretty cool move imo. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On June 05 2017 09:21 ldv wrote: Game 1 was not good at all. Shine's strategy was either horribly planned or VERY poorly executed. If you hide a third base, you're going to make your opponent a) suspicious and b) defensive. To then go and do a very very slow, very very late lurker drop from that third base is suicidal! You've already made your opponent think something is up! And you let him think that for a solid 60-90 seconds before you even did anything with it! I firmly believe Shine missed something in his build. Also, he kept pulling Flash's army -toward- the place he was going to drop. What happens if Flash just... leaves a marine there. GG? I think Shine's build would have worked much much better if he had cut some production to drop a 'real' fake hatchery at the bottom left, something to pull flash's army out of his base and make him think Shine was just doing some different timings or something, anything to stop Flash from sitting in his base with all the suspicion in the world. This is just one chobo's opinion, though. I'm pretty sure even I would have known my opponent was going to drop the main. Maybe some deep metagaming going on? LIke to make Flash think "that's so stupid, there's no way he'd do *that*, it must be something else..." As it is, yeah, it just looked completely hopeless. | ||
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sOuLthieF
Canada9 Posts
PvZ is a bit different, but with TvZ, terran can just turtle up and nothing a zerg does will break it. See game 1, flash made a bunker at home. gg. Game 2, turtle until push, gg. Game 3 was just straight up sick macro and multitask by Flash, I think any zerg would struggle against that, but Shine definitely overextend by breaking those double (!!) bunkers at entrance or mess up his macro right after, because flash had so much more units afterwards for those drops, but I think Shine had less lings than marines when Flash started dropping. Let's also not forget that was after his first dropship got caught by scourges. | ||
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pomwine
12 Posts
If you look at the minimap, Shine never rallied his hatches to Flash's main. While he's attacking, his units are just rallying to his own natural and sitting there. When Jaedong wins a fight in the center and gets this kind of traction attacking into a Terran's natural, he instantly rallies every hatch to the opponent's main and keeps applying pressure until he either kills them or the attack starts losing traction. I think if you gave Shine's seat to Jaedong after the fight linked above, JD probably would have killed Flash by forcing a liftoff of the Terran nat and eventually winning the game. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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czechue
Poland13 Posts
Late years, in KeSPA times it was always formula like: A Tosses <= A Zergs <<<< Flash >= ( S Tosses / Fantasy) >= JD / Effort > A Zergs >= A Tosses During Fanta 's form picks it would even be Flash =< Fanta, but unfortunately he's in the army now... | ||
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
On June 05 2017 20:35 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Disappointed by the finals, especially Shine throwing a perfectly even game #3. A crowd turnout like this deserves a much better finals. Blame Bisu for losing to Shine | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
i dunno seems like a pretty legit trick for defending bases behind or not | ||
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ilsamsamchil
155 Posts
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kaspa84
Brazil169 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 05 2017 19:02 Xeln4g4 wrote: worst one sided final ever ... The game was a masterclass of how to play TvZ. It wasn't the worst finals ever, there's been some terrible ones. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On June 06 2017 03:46 Qikz wrote: The game was a masterclass of how to play TvZ. It wasn't the worst finals ever, there's been some terrible ones. I think that simply people had too high expectations. Many, including me, expected closer game. But Flash simply dominated. We really need Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, Fantasy or Jangbi back at their top form to have Flash break a sweat. But right now it is hard for me to see anybody who can take Flash in Bo5. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On June 05 2017 15:26 sOuLthieF wrote: I think the biggest issue was that Shine didn't have the mechanics / late game to back his bag of builds. Especially tough when your opponents knows you have a bag of builds. PvZ is a bit different, but with TvZ, terran can just turtle up and nothing a zerg does will break it. See game 1, flash made a bunker at home. gg. Game 2, turtle until push, gg. Game 3 was just straight up sick macro and multitask by Flash, I think any zerg would struggle against that, but Shine definitely overextend by breaking those double (!!) bunkers at entrance or mess up his macro right after, because flash had so much more units afterwards for those drops, but I think Shine had less lings than marines when Flash started dropping. Let's also not forget that was after his first dropship got caught by scourges. Agree. Its just how the match up works early game, terran cannot be touched, unlike protoss, where zerg can make toss his pet from the early to late game. Lings are bad vs marines when they are placed good, terran can get firebats in no time, Scvs have 60 hp... even hydra busts are holded with scvs, it takes 12 shots to kill 1 scv. Shine going for base trade with lings against scvs was a laughable situation. Soulkey's methods are a different thing tho. If he refines his play he can definitely bring flash down 3-1 imo. He compose the game beautifully as time progresses leading to bigger and bigger advantage, there is alot of potential in that dude. I remember him doing the best performance of any zergs in the whole proleague season back in the day when Flash was killing every zerg super fast and easy, Soulkey impressed everyone. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On June 05 2017 15:54 pomwine wrote: Anyone else think Shine missed an opportunity at 1:49:30 here?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzuhofHH10#t=1h49m30s If you look at the minimap, Shine never rallied his hatches to Flash's main. While he's attacking, his units are just rallying to his own natural and sitting there. When Jaedong wins a fight in the center and gets this kind of traction attacking into a Terran's natural, he instantly rallies every hatch to the opponent's main and keeps applying pressure until he either kills them or the attack starts losing traction. I think if you gave Shine's seat to Jaedong after the fight linked above, JD probably would have killed Flash by forcing a liftoff of the Terran nat and eventually winning the game. I want to say yes, mostly because I feel like Flash was down to single digit count of his marines, no tanks and only the 1-2 vessels out. If Shine rallied, he could've caused a lift and Flash would've retreated giving Shine the opportunity to drone at his fourth and secure it. Having said that, we know this info, Shine doesn't so he played it safe after breaking down those bunkers which is reasonable. | ||
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Arkaim
United States63 Posts
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Trillwill
18 Posts
On June 05 2017 18:48 czechue wrote: Watching some of Flash's streams before finals I felt like there is no chance any Zerg can win bo5 with him right now... Late years, in KeSPA times it was always formula like: A Tosses <= A Zergs <<<< Flash >= ( S Tosses / Fantasy) >= JD / Effort > A Zergs >= A Tosses During Fanta 's form picks it would even be Flash =< Fanta, but unfortunately he's in the army now... You must've missed Flash's games vs Effort then :p. Effort beat him 3-2. Could've even been a 3-1 had Effort not blown the lead in one game. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On June 06 2017 07:37 Trillwill wrote: You must've missed Flash's games vs Effort then :p. Effort beat him 3-2. Could've even been a 3-1 had Effort not blown the lead in one game. That was the last time Effort actually was playing really well. After that he went back to being "just" good. And Effort won that series using early aggression, but since then Flash got way better dealing with such plays. Zero and Hydra were promising Zerg players towards the end of BW; I wonder what happened to them. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On June 06 2017 08:18 Lebesgue wrote: That was the last time Effort actually was playing really well. After that he went back to being "just" good. And Effort won that series using early aggression, but since then Flash got way better dealing with such plays. Zero and Hydra were promising Zerg players towards the end of BW; I wonder what happened to them. Zero just went to military in May and Hydra got married and I think quit SCII. Not sure what he is doing now. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On June 06 2017 08:26 BigFan wrote: Zero just went to military in May and Hydra got married and I think quit SCII. Not sure what he is doing now. Thanks, good to know. But that's too bad. Zero was a great Zerg player and he could give Flash a good run for his money. | ||
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Trillwill
18 Posts
On June 06 2017 08:18 Lebesgue wrote: That was the last time Effort actually was playing really well. After that he went back to being "just" good. And Effort won that series using early aggression, but since then Flash got way better dealing with such plays. Zero and Hydra were promising Zerg players towards the end of BW; I wonder what happened to them. Sorry, are you referring to the OSL finals with the crazy comeback? You seem like you're talking about something that happened a long time ago. But I was actually talking about a set they had on stream just a couple of days ago. If you're interested, you can catch it here. | ||
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Moopower
128 Posts
I wish I had a girlfriend or future wife that would watch broodwar with me | ||
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GTR
51411 Posts
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On June 06 2017 10:54 GTR wrote: if you want to watch a terrible finals go watch jaedong vs yellow[arnc] from the bacchus 2009 osl The Flash Stork(bacchus 2008?) finals were pretty much as one sided as this too' July vs Best was what i was hoping for 2 cheese games into a macro game stomp in the last game | ||
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On June 06 2017 09:36 Trillwill wrote: Sorry, are you referring to the OSL finals with the crazy comeback? You seem like you're talking about something that happened a long time ago. But I was actually talking about a set they had on stream just a couple of days ago. If you're interested, you can catch it here. OK, I got confused. I thought you were referring to OSL. The first post was referring to the KeSPA period and when I saw you mention 3:2 I automatically assumed that you mean OSL back then. Also because there was a period just before that OSL were Effort was playing like a beast, but already by the time of the final he seemed below his peak. I will check the link you provided. Thanks! | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On June 06 2017 09:36 Trillwill wrote: Sorry, are you referring to the OSL finals with the crazy comeback? You seem like you're talking about something that happened a long time ago. But I was actually talking about a set they had on stream just a couple of days ago. If you're interested, you can catch it here. EffOrt winning a single set from Flash doesn't mean anything, especially when he has a losing record against Flash afaik and he also can't play as well on stage either. Thanks for the link, will watch regardless. | ||
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fanta[Rn]
Japan2465 Posts
Was nice meeting you and your wife at the station/train. Overheard you talking game with her :D | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
On June 05 2017 00:43 Cryoc wrote: LMAO. Earlier this season they used to use the same non-spoiling thumbnail for all the matches which was very nice for this reason. Strange that they changed it again. Maybe they thought no one would think it's an actual spoiler because it's divinely predestined. | ||
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noname_
456 Posts
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The Intrepid
Canada205 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 06 2017 09:14 Lebesgue wrote: Thanks, good to know. But that's too bad. Zero was a great Zerg player and he could give Flash a good run for his money. I'm sorry to be negative but no...Zero would be absolutely destroyed. I say this because at no point in brood war could Zero have hoped to beat flash in a best of five. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 06 2017 16:15 The Intrepid wrote: Bisu vs FlaSh would have been such a great final ... There's no reason to believe given Bisu's performance that he would not also have lost 3-0. Especially how terrible he looked vs Shine. Please set your fanboyism aside for a bit. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 06 2017 06:37 Arkaim wrote: This Final really killed me. I was hoping for a storybook ending where hopes and dreams were possible and could be achieved. That's what I really needed. Instead this is still the time of cold hard reality. And that's what Flash is. Please change your race icon (it's terran right now) | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
Flash smashing drop ships down Shines throat to defuse the lurker fire and Shines innovative tactics. It’s incredible we can be seeing new strategies and new styles of playing in 2017. Broodwar has an infinite capacity to surprise. | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
On June 06 2017 19:37 Broodwar4lyf wrote: Maybe not a blueprint. But Shines showing there are more options and making Zerg less predictable has to be a good thing.I hope JD Effort Soulkey and the top Zergs see this as a blueprint playing Zerg. Only they have higher level mechanics to do transitions better than Shine has I can see Flashs smashing through the front with drops becoming more common too. That bodes badly for Z. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
In terms of gameplay quality and competitiveness between both players? (And while you're at it, you could list the Top 3 worst too!) | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 06 2017 20:33 RKC wrote: So just out of curiosity (and to slightly sidetrack): which would you consider as the Top 3 best BW Starleague finals? In terms of gameplay quality and competitiveness between both players? (And while you're at it, you could list the Top 3 worst too!) 1. Bacchus 2010 OSL Finals - FanTaSy vs Stork | ||
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sertas
Sweden881 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
Rushed home to see this. Finally, we can get a championship after like 2 years, I thought. Then Stork got raped helplessly by freakin vultures 3-0. Edit - JangBi vs FanTaSy Jin Air (sweet revenge too) | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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Jragon
Australia1471 Posts
When's the next team league happening? | ||
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czechue
Poland13 Posts
On June 06 2017 20:33 RKC wrote: So just out of curiosity (and to slightly sidetrack): which would you consider as the Top 3 best BW Starleague finals? In terms of gameplay quality and competitiveness between both players? (And while you're at it, you could list the Top 3 worst too!) For me it is definitely Fantasy vs Jangbi OSL Finals. The pure quintessence of Brood War: | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
EDIT: 2. EVER2004 OSL 2004 iloveoov - BoxeR 3-2 (Best friendship match ever) 3. EVER2005 OSL 2005 July - Goodfriend 3-2 (game 5 July are you kidding me? Granted GF choked there so #3 only) | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On June 06 2017 12:48 BigFan wrote: EffOrt winning a single set from Flash doesn't mean anything, especially when he has a losing record against Flash afaik and he also can't play as well on stage either. Thanks for the link, will watch regardless. In the current scene EffOrt is actually the Zerg with the best winrate against Flash. I think his problem outside of a team environment is consistency in broadcast games. And to anyone hyping up ZerO, that's the player who didn't practice for MSL finals against Flash because he believed he couldn't win regardless. Mindset's one of the most important qualities to define player skill. The real problem I have with BW 2011 and onwards is that Flash, unarguably the most talented player of all time is the only bonjwa in the game's history to have been aided by map rotations, almost as if KEspA (which was heavily criticized by players for putting marketing and storylines over the game's health) wanted a new bonjwa. Outsider and Heartbreak Ridge came off worse after their remakes, Neo Neo Python overtook Destination for most games played on in history, whoever okayed the double bridges on Circus Breaker should be crucified. Just bring back Bloodbath if you want the map pool to be bullshit. SaviOr was playing on Monty Hall and Hitchhiker. /rant | ||
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Terrorbladder
2717 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On June 10 2017 16:31 Lebesgue wrote: Right, everyone knows that Flash became dominant only because of the maps That's why I said *after* he became dominant. He was already leagues on top of everyone else when CB Match Point and La Mancha got added to the map pool. | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
Flash turned map splitting / abusing 2 player maps into an art especially in TvP. Similarly he broke TvP, turning big 4 player maps which used to be really hard for TvP, into playable maps with his style. Brood War has always been balanced by using the "hard" matchup (ZvT, TvP, PvZ) as much as anything. By screwing that up with his brilliance he made things look worse. The mapmakers were slow to adjust to this new reality - that a large four player map could be handled without too much trouble in TvP, and that it would be bad for ZvT (which used to be Z favored late game on a big map, but mech changed that). Also, it's not like Terrans have been doing great as a whole. Back in the last few years of BW it was just Flash and Fantasy (while like 10 different Zergs and even random caliber Protoss like Movie made finals). Now it's Last and Flash with an occasional Sea but really that was just one good ASL run after the SSL era (before guys like Bisu and Effort had returned). If anything Flash ruined BW for other Terrans. Without him (and to a lesser extent Fantasy) the story might be how weak T is and how maps need to be designed to make life easier for Terran. This is true if you remove the top players of any race but I think it's more true for Flash and Terran than any other player and their race. | ||
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StarCraft: Brood War Killer Dota 2 265ToSsGirL  187Aegong 73Mind 70SilentControl 24Noble  19Shinee 19ajuk12(nOOB) 9ivOry 1League of Legends Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Heroes of the Storm Other Games |
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Road to EWC
Road to EWC
Road to EWC
Road to EWC
Road to EWC
BSL Season 20
Sziky vs Razz
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Sziky vs DragOn
Sziky vs Tech
Razz vs StRyKeR
Razz vs DragOn
Razz vs Tech
DragOn vs Tech
Online Event
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
BSL Season 20
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
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EPT
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