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[ASL] Grand Finals: Flash vs Shine - Page 25

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-04 19:01:27
June 04 2017 19:01 GMT
#481
Well that series went as I expected. Unfortunate that Shine couldn't put up a better fight or somehow pull up the win, he was a fun player to watch this season.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
June 04 2017 19:21 GMT
#482
Flash is just too good. But I was expected that Shine will be able to snatch one game using some tricky build from his "bag of builds." I guess not against Flash.

fanta[Rn]
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Japan2465 Posts
June 04 2017 20:01 GMT
#483
Had a blast at the tournament. Ran into Tasteless right in front of the venue.

Was within centimeters reach of both Flash and Shine. The atmosphere was hype even if the games were not much to look at.

Stargirl was also just a couple of meters away.


In the end, Britney signed my afreeca paper.
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
June 04 2017 22:53 GMT
#484
Btw, that was probably one of the shortest finals ever. Feels shorter than Flash vs Stork, though probably not as short as Jeadong vs Yellow. But that was ZvZ which tend to be the shortest match-up.

After having watched the whole series I have to say that I am a bit disappointed how easily Flash rolled over Shine. I thought it will be closer than it was. Flash made it look so easy that you have to winder how the hell other guys could have lost to Shine...
Broodwar4lyf
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
304 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-04 23:13:34
June 04 2017 23:10 GMT
#485
The series only proved how light years ahead FlaSh (and "his" Terran mechanics) is above the competition. Early to early-mid game is where Shine usually "shines", whereas in this case his flame never really got lit for the most part and any dream of a competitive game were blown away asap. I should've realized that FlaSh vs Zerg is exactly that, a Terran about to roll an anxious Zerg desperately trying to last to a third. Props to Shine for making the ASL a ton more exciting than it really should've, and to FlaSh for once again proving that gambits at the very highest levels can only get you so far, which is why it risky builds are what they are
https://cinesnipe.com
Broodwar4lyf
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
304 Posts
June 04 2017 23:20 GMT
#486
For me Protoss or LaSt will be the only chance FlaSh gets bumped off the road to the finals, but the first Zerg who can get out of this defiler trap which FlaSh has convincingly shat on for hundreds of games could potentially be the next big name. The only player I see doing that would be Soulkey, he's kind of a mix between top Zerg macro and mechanics with a little Shine shennanigans dashed on top. :D He's really the only ray of light for Zerg against FlaSh imo
https://cinesnipe.com
Lazyer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States388 Posts
June 04 2017 23:49 GMT
#487
damn game1 was so good, really shows how strong both players are imo
Barneyk
Profile Joined November 2008
Sweden317 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 00:05:54
June 05 2017 00:02 GMT
#488
On June 05 2017 08:49 Plume wrote:
damn game1 was so good, really shows how strong both players are imo

Game 1 was good, but to me it really showed how dependent Shine is on cheesy builds and tactics when playing someone as mechanically good as Flash or Bisu.
nah
ldv
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
United States103 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 00:22:00
June 05 2017 00:21 GMT
#489
Game 1 was not good at all. Shine's strategy was either horribly planned or VERY poorly executed.

If you hide a third base, you're going to make your opponent a) suspicious and b) defensive. To then go and do a very very slow, very very late lurker drop from that third base is suicidal! You've already made your opponent think something is up! And you let him think that for a solid 60-90 seconds before you even did anything with it! I firmly believe Shine missed something in his build. Also, he kept pulling Flash's army -toward- the place he was going to drop. What happens if Flash just... leaves a marine there. GG? I think Shine's build would have worked much much better if he had cut some production to drop a 'real' fake hatchery at the bottom left, something to pull flash's army out of his base and make him think Shine was just doing some different timings or something, anything to stop Flash from sitting in his base with all the suspicion in the world.

This is just one chobo's opinion, though. I'm pretty sure even I would have known my opponent was going to drop the main.
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
June 05 2017 00:31 GMT
#490
Shine is the main observer for all these SC leagues, didn't know that. Kinda ironic in a way.
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
wswordsmen
Profile Joined October 2007
United States987 Posts
June 05 2017 00:32 GMT
#491
Shine would have won game 1 if it was a random game on Fish/Bnet. The problem with it is Flash knew he was going against a player who was too good to have a massive amount of resources go to waste. If he thought his opponent was just bad and/or fooling around then he probably would have been out of position and gotten wrecked by the lurker drop.
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
June 05 2017 00:33 GMT
#492
I was hoping for a closer series, but impressive play by Flash nonetheless.
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
June 05 2017 01:11 GMT
#493
yeah that build on map 1 looked way too slow for a finals
i would also think that shine must have messed something up?
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Terrorbladder
Profile Joined May 2014
2750 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 01:27:07
June 05 2017 01:23 GMT
#494
You can't really beat Flash through early-mid game ZvT strats that aim to finish the game within the first 10 mins, which is the only thing Shine's good at. He's actually strongest around this time. So... your only good strat plays into your opponent's biggest strength? That's not exactly a recipe for success. Most of the time ZvFlash has to be won late game, lead by complex mindgames.
My dream is to fertilize two females at a time.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51638 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 02:01:19
June 05 2017 02:00 GMT
#495
a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks).
Commentator
Terrorbladder
Profile Joined May 2014
2750 Posts
June 05 2017 02:29 GMT
#496
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote:
a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks).
Won't irradiate deal splash damage to all lurkers burrowing in the same spot?
My dream is to fertilize two females at a time.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51638 Posts
June 05 2017 02:46 GMT
#497
no because the units are burrowed and cant splash when burrowed
Commentator
duke91
Profile Joined April 2014
Germany1458 Posts
June 05 2017 03:01 GMT
#498
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote:
a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks).


You do this if you are hopelessly behind
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19368 Posts
June 05 2017 04:32 GMT
#499
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote:
a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks).

I really like the move to put lings behind his high ground minerals so scan+marines would hit the lings over drones on the Andromeda in main mineral only expansion.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 05 2017 04:45 GMT
#500
On June 05 2017 13:32 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 11:00 GTR wrote:
a lot of impressive things to take from shine though - i've never seen the lurker stack with the overlord on top to mitigate the potential irradiate losses ever before, hopefully more zergs start to do this, although seems to be just a situationally unique thing to do (not worth against tanks).

I really like the move to put lings behind his high ground minerals so scan+marines would hit the lings over drones on the Andromeda in main mineral only expansion.

Agree, pretty cool move imo.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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