EPTOn May 28 2017 04:36 mishimaBeef wrote:
yeah rekt
Poor protoss play looks weak as hell against zerg
yeah rekt
Poor protoss play looks weak as hell against zerg
Fixed that for ya! :p
[ASL3] Ro4 Bisu vs Shine - Page 28
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Fixed that for ya! :p | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
I really feel for Bisu fans but there is always a player who you can't just play against straight right? Bisu could easily dismember Effort or JD as he did many times but with Shine, it is always a story to tell. Lyrics aside, Shine did prepare for these games and oh he did well. Uncharacteristic sloppy mistakes by Bisu were probably the nerves (one of the reasons why Bisu can only play well when he is allowed to). Nobody doubts that Bisu mechanically is just way better than any other BW player but it is not enough, you actually need a character to win. Congrats Shine, games were beautiful. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10380 Posts
Not only is the whining useless and unwarranted, its also a huge disrespect to Shine. His play this series was fantastic, his build ideas were amazing, and he showed why you need STRATEGY in BW to actually win games. You cant just be an APM god to win. Enough. Let the players play and actually watch how they play before saying if a matchup sucks or not. No one says that Terran is underpowered when Flash loses, they always say he played bad. Great! Now translate that to Bisu, BeSt, Mong, any other player who was unable to advance. /rant | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On May 28 2017 05:27 letian wrote: Don't feed the balance trolls. I think these are just poor attempts at flooding. BW balance talks look boring even to read. I'm feeding them hard, because it's just a bad mindset...and it's suddenly become WAY worse over the last 12 months or so. At first I thought it was just SC2 people, used to a game that is constantly patched and has a little more of a culture of discussion/complaining about balance, but when I looked closer a large portion of the balance stuff is coming from pretty established BW players that really should understand better | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12032 Posts
Every damn time. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Bisu played D- second game, quallity of play really droped out after the end of progame era. Runing corsairs over hydras, no bother to pull out corsairs that are targeted by hydras, wasting units everywhere. I mean come on i do better with corsairs than this :D Bisu looks crushed after game 2 i guess this series is done. Game 3. Did Bisu just go afk at random moments? Game 4. Bisu couldve gotten significant advantage if not won the game, if just pulled back 2 of his zealots to the side, after the rush finished, since he have enough to hold his ramp. How can he be so uncreative with such a common stuff. If he run pass the sunken, after lings go to his main with the 2 zealots, drones are out of the main. Seems like Bisu was not here today, its like Shine has some dark power that negates Bisu multitasking skill. And have really to say Shine outshines everybody in this tournament so far, brilliant performance and execution overall. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
But it also seem that he was really caught under-prepared. Shine was dictating the flow of the series. GG Shine. Now let's hope that Flash advances so we don't have ZvZ finals... | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
Bag of builds to slay a dragon Bag of builds to challenge god himself | ||
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
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mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
On May 27 2017 21:00 FlaShFTW wrote: FlaSh sees 1 ling. Huh seems out of place. I think I should scan OH LOOK BURROWED LINGS LOLOLOL To be honest, Flash had a 2nd scv scouting Shine's base as long as he wanted. That was already bad for Shine. he let that scv get past his lings without noticing. Then shine showed 12 lings to flash by trying to poke in its natural. Flash got out of his base, sees one ling, thats ok then walks the mms very tight to get ready to battle the 12 lings + muta micro (kinda common) and he keeps controlling his rines in formation and still no sign of the other 11 lings. Considering a. he isn't playing a noob that kept his lings at home and b. He knows his opponent, it isn't that amazing... Anyways, that series had nothing to do with Bisu not being strategically ready for Shine's builds. Quite the contrary. It had everything to do with him reading well and then miss-microing. He got outmicro'd badly. Bisu choked like a chump in this series. At least he was honest before the game he was too nervous. Losing the first two corsairs to the first 4 scourges two games in a row was awful. Since this current PvZ meta was established I've seen hundreds of games of Bisu and very rarely he loses his first corsair to 2 scourges and I sincerely think I've never seen in normal circumstances him losing the first 2 corsairs to 4 scourges, let alone twice in a row. I was a B level player in my prime and I came back to bw 40 days ago and I only play 2-5 games per day and not everyday. Still, after 2 weeks I stopped losing my first corsair to scourges in normal circumstances, obviously. That's bad for a C player like myself, and I can't even put into words how bad it is for the "Corsair Master". Bisu usually keeps most of his initial 6 sairs alive throughout the games. Even in the first game he didn't reacted well. He scouted with 2 probes and proceeded safely, adding 2 canns before nexus,. He also kept probes blocking the gaps, etc, then he notices something strange by the # of hydras attacking at his choke were not increasing as expected and finds the ovies ready to drop hydra/ling in his main and he defends it well, then he sends a corsair to scout Z's base, sees only 1 expo and more importantly: 2 drones at Shine's natural. That's GG.But Bisu was greed by not adding more cannons and the two cannons he put that were the only ones in place to defend against a hydra drop weren't placed well. So he lost his small ground army to hydras and depended on shine not microing well against a shuttle-less reaver. Not sure whats the point of trying to be too greed against an inferior tricky player. The last game was also lost due to bad micro. That last game was the PvZ meta for a long time. Opening 2gate to punish Z's FE then having to hold the ramp against hydra or lurker/ling was very common. And he had 2 cannons at the correct distances of the ramp + at opposed positions so lurkers couldn't hit both at the same time. He was safe. He should've never engaged the lurkers in the middle of the ramp. Thats the basics for any P. Shine didn't even had a over to get vision on the higher ground. FFS! Back in the day we had to micro a goon to kill the ovie, he had no vision. Shine had to keep suiciding lings to get full vision or wait for the cannons to hit the lurkers to get vision momentarily. Bisu microed like a chump in this series. I want to see the FPVods but it seems to me his multitasking ended up hurting him when he only needed to pay attention and micro well his units to beat a trickster. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
And protoss vs zerg score: 6 - 30 | ||
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mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rVI6Iul.jpg) I thought the first lurker was in the middle of the ramp but it was in the bottom. LOL. Shine didn't micro well enough. If you have no over, usually you burrow the first one then get the next two up with lings to get vision. His lurkers weren't in range of hitting anything, lol. Bisu only needed to back away the 5 zeas in formation and it was over for shine... Shine prolly was betting Bisu was too greedy and thus would have no cannons, or he was going for a drop again and changed plans when Bisu killed his 2 nearest overlords. Now I want to see the fpvod. | ||
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
On May 28 2017 07:42 mcmascote wrote: I'm sorry for the double post but look at this. It's even worse. I thought the first lurker was in the middle of the ramp but it was in the bottom. LOL. Shine didn't micro well enough. If you have no over, usually you burrow the first one then get the next two up with lings to get vision. His lurkers weren't in range of hitting anything, lol. Bisu only needed to back away the 5 zeas in formation and it was over for shine... Shine prolly was betting Bisu was too greedy and thus would have no cannons, or he was going for a drop again and changed plans when Bisu killed his 2 nearest overlords. Now I want to see the fpvod. Lurkers are definitely in range of the upper cannon and will hit zealots defending. However Bisu took some really hard hits on ALL of his zealots while blocking his ramp. It would have been much better to back off and pull some probes to help the cannons. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On May 28 2017 07:45 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Lurkers are definitely in range of the upper cannon and will hit zealots defending. However Bisu took some really hard hits on ALL of his zealots while blocking his ramp. It would have been much better to back off and pull some probes to help the cannons. Guys, it was all over, pulling probes vs lurkers was just going to make things worse. | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
On May 28 2017 07:45 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Lurkers are definitely in range of the upper cannon and will hit zealots defending. However Bisu took some really hard hits on ALL of his zealots while blocking his ramp. It would have been much better to back off and pull some probes to help the cannons. But he doesn't have detection, that'd give a way his first cannon for free, let Shine take a good new position for taking out the other cannon. Though that'd probably be the best time to push then. His wall will break no matter what here with three lurkers in range so the way he played isn't the way to go. I just don't think it's sure that Bisu would've held it. Maybe if he threw up another cannon at his nexus, bought time by pushing whenever the Lurkers unburrowed. But I think this timing was very strong vs 2gate on close positions. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19338 Posts
On May 28 2017 06:37 _Animus_ wrote: oh no, Shine screwed up so hard in G1, why push all your units towards the protoss main while corsair have vision? That like "bisu im gonna drop you, you better build some defences" He shouldve just send the corsair away with hydras then drop... Bisu played D- second game, quallity of play really droped out after the end of progame era. Runing corsairs over hydras, no bother to pull out corsairs that are targeted by hydras, wasting units everywhere. I mean come on i do better with corsairs than this :D Bisu looks crushed after game 2 i guess this series is done. Game 3. Did Bisu just go afk at random moments? Game 4. Bisu couldve gotten significant advantage if not won the game, if just pulled back 2 of his zealots to the side, after the rush finished, since he have enough to hold his ramp. How can he be so uncreative with such a common stuff. If he run pass the sunken, after lings go to his main with the 2 zealots, drones are out of the main. Seems like Bisu was not here today, its like Shine has some dark power that negates Bisu multitasking skill. And have really to say Shine outshines everybody in this tournament so far, brilliant performance and execution overall. Regarding Bisu afk moment, did anyone see him fall asleep during shine's pregame interview. He looked out of it. My wife believes he was hung over lol. Obviously being sick or hung over aren't valid excuses, but he certainly looked off from start to finish. Shine sure has done a number on him. | ||
GTR
51584 Posts
who is byun even. | ||
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