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[ASL2] Semifinals: Flash vs Jaedong - Page 76

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-17 22:56:35
January 17 2017 22:55 GMT
#1501
On January 18 2017 07:50 DracoMortuiVolantus wrote:
This is madness, You can't win ZvT BoX unless T does series of openings to kill him,
it is so fucking unfair that if he don't cut edges or cut edges properly he will win it makes me mad.


You realize that Flash is way better than JD right now, right? I'm surprised that JD didnt get 3-0ed or 3-1ed.. He chose his builds wisely, kudos to him for that.
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-17 23:01:51
January 17 2017 23:01 GMT
#1502
Awesome series! Flash fighting!

I feel like Jaedong's muta opening isn't up to par yet for dealing with the constant ebay mass-rax builds so he shouldn't have chosen that path.
He tried some lurker aggression, but I feel like his best chance would have been to repeat game 1 atleast once. Maybe without 3 hatch before pool, but still open lurker into defensive position with the threat of hold lurkers and ling-aggro into fast secured third and lategame. It didn't seem like FlaSh had the best response to that style and would probably have made Jaedongs chances better.

Flash basically abused the E-rax build and, atleast from my own perspective, defensive lurker exp is hard to deal with using that strategy.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
January 17 2017 23:02 GMT
#1503
On January 18 2017 07:50 DracoMortuiVolantus wrote:
This is madness, You can't win ZvT BoX unless T does series of openings to kill him,
it is so fucking unfair that if he don't cut edges or cut edges properly he will win it makes me mad.


While I agree with this, my heart was pounding the entire series. Thank you both!! (flash and jaedong)
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
January 17 2017 23:18 GMT
#1504
What was the peak number of viewers?
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
January 17 2017 23:20 GMT
#1505
300k according to this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/517872-viewership-and-regrowth-of-broodwar?page=6
kiss kiss fall in love
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21663 Posts
January 17 2017 23:22 GMT
#1506
On January 18 2017 07:55 gngfn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 07:23 neobowman wrote:
On January 18 2017 03:30 Hildegard wrote:
One question about the health issues:

What would you think of alternative controls like foot pedals or voice commands (or even better options I'm not aware of)? If the current setup is hurting players should future RTS implement other controller options than mouse and keyboard?


There are no real alternatives. Controllers are far less flexible in terms of what they provide. For something like Fighting games they're good but RTS games need so many different hotkeys that basically only keyboard and mouse can provide.

Even if there was a good alternative they're already comfortable with their current setup so it would cost a fair bit to transition into a different control scheme.

I remember that when Mew2King started having problems in Smash, a few people with knowledge of the area (?) commented that there are physical therapists who specialize in helping guitarists, etc. to work on their ergonomics and muscle control and teaching exercises and stretches that can help avoid injury. But maybe these players have already had access to all that.

While such things can certainly help mitigate some of the damage, the speed which with these high level pro's play (300+ apm) is simply beyond what the human body is designed to do.
Its probably an unavoidable consequence of playing at that speed for so long.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
January 17 2017 23:32 GMT
#1507
As someone who mainly played SC2, I was surprised how marine heavy that match was. I figured marines weren't as integral to BW as they were in SC2.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
January 17 2017 23:38 GMT
#1508
On January 18 2017 08:32 DickMcFanny wrote:
As someone who mainly played SC2, I was surprised how marine heavy that match was. I figured marines weren't as integral to BW as they were in SC2.

That only applies to TvT and TvP. Marines+medics are the bread and butter of TvZ.
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
Broodwar4lyf
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
304 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-17 23:59:01
January 17 2017 23:57 GMT
#1509
I can only hope some sc2 guys jump over to BW instead. Lots of young SC2 players who definitely have deep game understanding just didn't get a chance to start off with BW. And I mean both foreign and korean players. Who knows, the next bonjwas might've picked SC2 instead of BW so I'm really hoping that I see more new BW prospects
https://cinesnipe.com
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 18 2017 00:00 GMT
#1510
On January 18 2017 08:20 IntoTheheart wrote:
300k according to this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/517872-viewership-and-regrowth-of-broodwar?page=6

Someone actually mentioned it in this LR if you meant the 300k I wrote but my guess is the number is somewhere between 200-300k. Regardless, most watched series this ASL with Best vs Sea being second at 186k viewers. Those numbers are pretty insane if you actually think about them lol.

On January 18 2017 08:38 okum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 08:32 DickMcFanny wrote:
As someone who mainly played SC2, I was surprised how marine heavy that match was. I figured marines weren't as integral to BW as they were in SC2.

That only applies to TvT and TvP. Marines+medics are the bread and butter of TvZ.

yep though terrans eventually switches to mech in the late game because zergs have gotten really good at holding mnm etc...
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4722 Posts
January 18 2017 00:10 GMT
#1511
That really was the series we all hoped for. One very very late game match would have been awesome of course.

I was really glad that I was able to witness that again.

And I love Jaedong so much.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
quirinus
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Croatia2489 Posts
January 18 2017 00:26 GMT
#1512
too bad the 5 rax build shreks 3 hat muta, even if you're JD, otherwise we might have seen better games and maybe JD winning.

until zergs find a solution for it, it's going to be a rough time for them (and no, opening lurkers isn't really a good solution)
All candles lit within him, and there was purity. | First auto-promoted BW LP editor.
Pleasuremann
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
20 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 00:28:32
January 18 2017 00:27 GMT
#1513
[/QUOTE]It's not childish at all, if you work hard for something you want to be rewarded no matter what you do.
If the only reward is getting shitted on in the internet I can totally understand why he doesn't have the desire to compete anymore.
Flash is still human even if it's hard to believe [/QUOTE]



Every standout individual, in any sport, in the history of sports has accumulated his share of vitriol/hatred. Lebron James comes to mind; one of the most hyper-scrutinized and criticized figures of our time. He and others like him are forced to recognize that antagonism comes with the territory. To try and argue against the nature of fame and its complications, especially when you're the prominent figure in your field, is to deny the irrevocable truth that you can't please everyone.

I love Esports; I love FlaSh, I love it all, man. I think it's fair to say that the medium is a little different than professional sports in some ways. On your stream, you've got floods of hate. I get that. But picture being an athlete going into a stadium or court on an away game. Those guys have to deal with random people hating on them, to their face, with the intention of getting in their heads so they'll perform worse in the game that starts in 10 minutes. NBA players have an 82-game season, not counting pre or post season. Let's assume that in half(41) of those games, there's a few random douches in the crowd who feel it is their JOB to tell them they're shit so their team can win. And if you're the star player? If you're Lebron James? This kind of thing is going to happen much, much more often than that. And your twitter comments are probably going to show it.

Esports isn't as big as athletic sports are, and I think everyone here recognizes it is a different medium. But for a player to publicly announce he may withdraw from leagues(which can be construed as holding the league hostage, intended or not) because he is recieving negative attention is hypersensitive at best, and manipulative at worst.

Is winning not its own reward? I understand they're making their money from their stream support, but at what point must the franchise's best player say 'enough', and begin to cultivate that resilient filter that COMES from being hated and push through it? Adversity makes a player better in any sport. If it doesn't, they collapse from the pressure and that's it. But threatening to quit because people are trying to undermine your success is showing that at some level, you hold others responsible for your actions. If someone wants to quit, they can quit. There's no need to talk about it or place blame. Even if there is hate, these are players who are still a part of Esports; they likely follow tournaments and they care enough to post something even if it's negative. Fanatacism across the spectrum is a part of competitive life.

Maybe I'm being too hard on him; he's 24 and we all mature at different levels as we navigate through life. But what does it say about the league when its best player threatens to quit whenever his haters get under his skin? Is that an image the ASL wants to promote?
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
January 18 2017 00:42 GMT
#1514
I was a little disappointed, but it was overall alright. g1 we saw how excellent Jaedong is once he gets comfortably into the middle game, we saw non-stop drops from Flash being deflected perfectly. G2 Flash really punished an overly optimistic early attack; I think if JD had seen the positioning of everything in the natural he wouldn't have gone for it. Any other Terran and the game continues, but Flash just shut him out. G3 was probably the most exciting, really scrappy by Jaedong but very nearly coming out of losing his 3rd with taking Flash's natural. G4 was your classic g4 gambit. Always risk the biscuit in game 4. g5 was a bummer, Jaedong just didn't account for how much pressure he'd be under with the short rush distance, couldn't get lurkers in time to hold his 3rd and fell apart. Cool army movements and real fighting spirit, he nearly got a third up anyway, but with no pressure on Flash and a drop overwhelming Jaedong's defensive resources, we didn't get to see the way dark swarm can keep a player like Jaedong an unending threat.

I would like to see some hardcore macro maps in the next season. IE in main mineral only thirds, super easy to crawl across the map expansions. I think those maps can make for the most exciting games, and benefit players with strong multitasking. Lots of the maps in the pool can sort of be played as macro maps, but I think because nothing in rotation really pressures you to play a macro map, players are leveraging their practice towards more aggressive play that works on everything. Probably there is something to be said for more limited practice environments not rewarding the ultra long term thinking style where you just defend everything and know how to stop everything until you get into a great mid game (imo we're seeing games decided in the early midgame and get really scrappy immediately). Although honestly if anyone is playing like that, it's Flash, because his mid game attacks are super stable and he has good follow up, but people just die to it before the game goes on because it's Flash. But I have to admit as much as a fan I miss the more elaborate long term strategies and careful full map games, as a human being I think those times were really hard on the players and often took everything they had. The players seem a lot happier now, so you kind of have to relent.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
January 18 2017 00:43 GMT
#1515
Fuck what a great series!
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
January 18 2017 00:49 GMT
#1516
Man i really, really hope TL readers weren't contributing toward spamming and harassing Flash after that game. Shame on anyone who contributes to that kind of garbage. Show some respect to a guy who always shows respect to his opponents despite being the hardest-working, best player of to ever play the game =[
the last wcs commissioner
Broodwar4lyf
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
304 Posts
January 18 2017 01:02 GMT
#1517
He breaks Z standard builds which is why ppl hate on him. His new TvP variation is almost near perfection too, he's been using more vults and less tanks in most his games and it's been slaughtering the usual P mid to late game as well. I'm concerned Ps will start to act like Zs and go in cheese or go in early game survival mode once FLash tweaks it to perfection as well. I think the hate comes from him making the competition less exciting, if anything, people should encourage everybody else to try and get better to keep up (if that's even possible)
https://cinesnipe.com
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 18 2017 01:22 GMT
#1518
I was surprised Jaedong took 2 games. His game 1 play was beautiful play. I knew he lost though once he went Mutalisks in game 5. I imagine he probably still would have lost game 5 with lurker play, but I think it might have looked better.

Game 1 was so fun to watch, hopefully another Jaedong vs Flash can come up in the next ASL with Jaedong as the winner .

When I think of something else, something will go here
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
January 18 2017 01:32 GMT
#1519
On January 18 2017 07:55 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 07:50 DracoMortuiVolantus wrote:
This is madness, You can't win ZvT BoX unless T does series of openings to kill him,
it is so fucking unfair that if he don't cut edges or cut edges properly he will win it makes me mad.


You realize that Flash is way better than JD right now, right? I'm surprised that JD didnt get 3-0ed or 3-1ed.. He chose his builds wisely, kudos to him for that.

Way better? Game 1 wasn't way better. JD was all over Flash. He was 2 steps ahead on everything.. Flash is still more dominant I'll give you that but 'way better' is just.... -_-
Jaedong.
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 18 2017 01:43 GMT
#1520
On January 18 2017 07:50 DracoMortuiVolantus wrote:
This is madness.

No. This is Spartaaaaaaaa....... 😀
User was warned for being hilarious
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