Reading the forum for a while has made me realize that ChoJJa just hasn't been getting the attention that I think he really should've deserved. When talking about current shapes and skill levels, I honestly cannot name any zerg that's more dominating than ChoJJa. When reading posts about best zergs, the names I consistently see time and time again are July, Gorush, and Savior. A name that I rarely see mentioned, however, is the one I happen to think is the most dominating one of them all.
I just want to know why ChoJJa hasn't really been as hot on this forum as the other 3 top zergs has been. Before we go on further lets just shout out some random facts about the current shape of Chojja:
2 MSL's ago, ChoJJa placed top 3. One MSL later, ChoJJa won the entire league. Top seed in the current MSL. In this previous MSL, ChoJJa had a perfect 100% winning percentage. (i.e., never knocked down to losers brackets) In this current MSL, ChoJJa has a perfect 100% winning percentage. Qualified to current OSL. One of the few players who have managed to qualify for both the current seasons of OSL as well as MSL. Undefeated in ODL1. In this current OSL, ChoJJa has a perfect 100% winning percentage. One out of the only 3 players to have not only qualified for both OSL and MSL, but to also have a 100% winning record in both leagues (the only other two to do this are Boxer and Nal_rA). In this current Proleague season, ChoJja has a perfect 100% winning percentage. Chojja is the only single player in the world who holds a 100% winning percentage in all 3 of the big leagues in their current seasons: OSL, MSL, and Proleague (has this feat ever even been accomplished before?).
And he's gone through many tough opponents to do it. No lucky brackets. For example, I think July had it easy placing top 2 in the previous OSL season when getting all Protoss opponents after getting out of group, considering that the maps used for that season were bad for PvZ. I think there's a number of zergs who could have done just the same as July had if they were in his position (getting all zvp series, on bad pvz maps). ChoJJa never had it so easy in his brackets. He went through Xellos 2-0 in the last MSL season. He even went through Boxer 2-0 on his way to MSL top 3 two seasons ago. Watch his zvt vs Oov on oov's own best map that's just happened this OSL for another example.
So how does ChoJJa match up against the other big 3 zergs? Gorush has been slumping for the longest time (he has fallen totally off the top 30 in Kespa as of May), and people have always idolized him. Savior dominated MSL but never did anything impressive in OSL. As a matter of fact, he never qualified for it. July has done well in OSL but his MSL presence is severely lacking. ChoJJa is the only zerg that's been dominant in everything he participated in during the last 6 or so months.
He has always been known for his ZvP, but recently has shown that he's good at just about everything. His ZvZ is hands down more dominant than anybody else in the world, with recent zvz wins over July, JJu, Savior, Savior again, Child, Yellow, Gorush 3 different times, Yellow[Name], Mumyung, saint, plus others. I don't think any zergs have a winning record vs Chojja within recent times. His zvt has been impressive, with 3-0 performance over Xellos, 2-0 Boxer, beating oov on his own best map, etc.
I have always been baffled why Chojja isn't as notable as July, Gorush, and Savior on the TL forum. In current shapes, I'd like to see how you rate, ChoJJa in his overall abilities vs July, Gorush, and Savior.
ChoJJa's zvz is unmatched atm but i still rate Saviors zvt higher than chojja's, although he too has had some amazing results july is the monster in zvp and ipx's is... not as good as his zvt.. and im not sure about chojja
chojja seems to be the best zerg theses days, and in the past , has always been good, he was a long time the 2nd Z after yellow... Chojja is a monster in every mu, maybe invincible in ZvsZ :p
Yes he is largely underestimated, even I did until he beat oov/you started posting about it.
Why is he? lets see: Chojja is Chojja he's not everybodys favourite "magician" or "god of war" I don't recall anything really spectaular from him. And since I started following progaming he's only won MSL, I believe. July wins alot, GoRush has tons of great games, (medic wall vs nada, zvp on forte vs rA etc) Savior beat oov 7-0 with a interesting new style.
ChoJJa is the cowboy style zvt, but I don't notice it too much, he's not paticulary interesting as it were, and although I respect his zvz as best in the planet, I don't see him do anything interesting zvt/zvp.
Its personal taste. Chojja isnt as fun to watch as July, Savior, or Gorush. Dont't get me wrong. He is a good player. Nice macro cowboy style zerg. And he is a master of 1 base zerg and hes cute with his short size but i feel he lacks flair because he never had a invincible period like the above zergs. edit. alot of people jump on the bandwagons when ever a player is hot and chojja has never been #1 on kespa or won a major tournament besides his msl win recently. SOon i bet people are gonna make a chojja bandwagon.
Well you can't really say anything about him hoding "a 100% winning percentage in all 3 of the big leagues", since he played what, 2 OSL games, 1 MSL game and 1 proleague game and 3 out of 4 were ZvZ, where everyone agrees that he's the world number 1 right now.
I'd say he's not as "famous" as July/Gorush/Savior because of a few reasons: - ZvT (which is the most interesting, difficult and impressive Z matchup) has never been his best, nor has he been very impressive in it. It seems like he's improved a lot though, and with the extra confidence he gained by winning the MSL he's starting to do better and better at it ; - he's never gone anywhere in OSL since his 2nd place finish in Panasonic, and we all know people performing well in OSL somehow gain more fame and fans ; - he probably lacks a bit of charisma.
Cool thread, again One thing tho - his 100% in all leagues.. How about we wait until proleague has been going for longer than one round?:D
When did chojja beat xellos 3-0 (I managed to miss this, well, except for references to it)? Very strong performance obviousy, but has he really been tested in a bo5 vs a top terran?
Gorush, july and savior have all beaten a top terran in a bo5 on the way/in the finals of their victory. IE, July beat oov 3-2 in the semis of his first victory, and 3-1:ed xellos on the way to another of his finals.. and not sure if you want to consider goodfriend a top terran.
Gorush 4-2:ed nada, savior 3-0ed oov. But I suppose you could argue that chojja's 3-0 victory over xellos is equally worthy (although I feel xellos is a bit too slumpy these days).
As for why he's so underrated, I think most people just remember how he used to be - always falling just short vs terrans (2-3 and 0-3 vs nada in two finals and wel, losing a lot in general for a while).
On May 01 2006 04:56 FrozenArbiter wrote: When did chojja beat xellos 3-0 (I managed to miss this, well, except for references to it)? Very strong performance obviousy, but has he really been tested in a bo5 vs a top terran?
He won 2-0 in a recent MSL, and 1-0 in some Dual Tournament, iirc (although I think Xellos won one game in-between, the one where he stayed several minutes with his firebat/marines in Chojja's main)
Xellos has been sucking for a while (esp TvZ-wise), but it was still a very nice (and surprising) performance from Cho.
myst[a]: I mostly play on LAN (can't get used to the lag), so I'm not often around on BN. -.-
ChOJJa is imo the best zerg, i support him since 2000 and i really hope he will win the OSL and MSL this year Dont forget 4th May 7pm KOR time: Slayer`s_BoXer vs ChOJJa @ 815
Overall in terms of achievement and consistency, July is head and shoulder above all Zerg users.
If you compare the level of play every player displayed at their peak, I personally rank Gorush during the KT-KTF final/YATGK MSL as having displayed THE most impressive Zerg-play yet. No Zerg user can boast to have beaten an in form Nada in a Bo5, let alone a Bo7.
and Yellow will always be Yellow, the godfather of what has evolved to be zerg now.
Chojja I'd say stands out as an all-rounder, that is ironically he's never been truly outstanding in any aspects. He's had his moments of invincibility and severe slumps and he's been around long enough, having introduced new innovative forms of play. Unfortunately for him what people would always remember would be his falterings at the brink of success, most noteably when Nada destroyed him 3-0 in Panasonic. Having said that, right now he's back on form, his play seems to have improved immensely, especially his sense of timing and management in ZvT. What impressed me most about the win against oov was that he won because he played well, rather than oov messing up. (imo most of savior's wins vs Oov were due to oov's complacency and rash decisions)
ChoJJa dominating OSL/MSL currently ? Im willing to discuss this when ChoJJa has reached semis in both OSL and MSL. Thats dominating! Way too little games played this far in the season.
I consider him top 3 alongside July and Savior atm, though he isnt close to July accomplishment-wise. He might be in the best shape of these players right now, but that doesnt make him the best player.
Uh, well... think of it this way. If it was Oov vs. Chojja in the last MSL semis, he probably would've lost, at least surely wouldn't have done as well as IPX. Then it'd be IPX and Oov in the finals. Chojja still the best?
Yeah, Chojja beat Oov on RH3, but he lost on the same map during the last proleague finals, not long ago.
I'm not saying Chojja isn't a great Zerg player, but best? He may prove doubters like me wrong
The reason is that he's been out of the spotlight for too long. Gorush (who was on a mini-slump) is remembered because his dominant period was not-so-long ago.
Chojja may be looking impressive lately. Maybe he's riding a hotstreak. Maybe he is dominant. Who knows? We'll have to wait a month or three to see if he continues his dominance
On May 01 2006 04:35 PoP wrote: Well you can't really say anything about him hoding "a 100% winning percentage in all 3 of the big leagues", since he played what, 2 OSL games, 1 MSL game and 1 proleague game and 3 out of 4 were ZvZ, where everyone agrees that he's the world number 1 right now.
Yeah, he has not played a huge abundant of games yet for the current seasons, but it's an incredibly hard feat. Think of it this way, if you only qualified for 1 league, you can spend all your time practicing for your important game. If you're playing for both OSL and MSL, your practice time is going to be cut into half, because there's only so much time you can devote to practice for your OSL games, and so much time to practice for your MSL games. Playing perfect in not just 1, 2, but all 3 big leagues that are going on at the exact same time means you have very little time to prepare and practice for all of your upcoming games sufficiently. Even though the seasons are just beginning, there's no one else besides Chojja that has been able to achieve perfect stats in all 3 leagues like this. That just shows how difficult it is to perform well in all 3 leagues, let alone being perfect in all of them. Even with just 4 games I think it's very impressive considering all the leagues are going on simultaneously, giving him very little time to prepare for his games.
On May 01 2006 04:56 FrozenArbiter wrote: When did chojja beat xellos 3-0 (I managed to miss this, well, except for references to it)? Very strong performance obviousy, but has he really been tested in a bo5 vs a top terran?
He 2-0'ed Xellos in the previous MSL season, and then 1-0'ed him in ODL.
yea chojja is really good but, as many players have mentioned, the listed accomplishments aren't quite accomplishments yet. He's played 1 or 2 games in each league, and to say his 100% winrate "has never been accomplished before" is stretching it a little bit.
However, i think at this current time, Chojja has the potential to be the dominating zerg in BOTH leagues. Although i'm sure July will take 2nd or 3rd in his group and advance to the round of 16, and maybe take it all the way, Chojja appears to be a much more reliable choice for the top4.
Also, Chojja is still doing well in MSL, so hopefully that will continue for him.
Perhaps nowadays is the time for the dominance of Chojja, similar to Gorush's amazing performance around the MSL 1st place / KT-KTF 2nd place / OGN 3rd place time.
yea we'll have to see over these few months for some good performances from chojja
i have to say that his zvz play is brilliant, and although also very good at zvp and zvt, his games havent been very spectacular to watch i guess.. ;p and zvz games also arent very epic (the best one i've watched is Yellow vs GGPlay, but i guess yellow vs julyzerg on bifrost must've been a good game too..but yeah those were ylelow, not chojja ;p)
Excuse me but don't be so disgusting when making a thread like this (like constantly talking about his 100% winning records in all three leauges when there's been like 5 total rounds or something)
This is not politics so get real. Also, MSL is nothing compared to OSL.. July is there batteling for the golden mouse and that makes him #1
You can't just suddenly say ChOJJa is #1 because he's doing well now, he has to prepare for 3 leagues? As someone said 3 zvzs (Which he probably doesn't even need to practice for ) 1 zvt :O. Wait till he wins msl or osl or does really well in the proleague before saying he's top.
On May 01 2006 08:44 Patriot.dlk wrote: Excuse me but don't be so disgusting when making a thread like this (like constantly talking about his 100% winning records in all three leauges when there's been like 5 total rounds or something)
This is not politics so get real. Also, MSL is nothing compared to OSL.. July is there batteling for the golden mouse and that makes him #1
Are you blind?
Read tfeign's last post. He explained why his 100% win record is relevant.
The original fast hands? Original Crazy Muta reknown? Original Cowboy? Super Ultra? Ye yes yes yes... Best Zerg? Eh.. if we look at now and a lil before the break, sure why not. atm... Savior failed to get into OSL, July has been shaken up bad by Oov, GoRush has been considered fallen and on his climb back, so logic says Chojja is #1 coming off a hot streak. Way too early to tell, this is like that silly Oov and Boxer TvP discussion... 2 years tells much more than 2 months. Plus, Boxer is practice makes perfect style..... that's why he is competitive for life. Chojja I feel is probably the same way, and a renewed confidence since clutching his first title has to give him that extra sense of security. Instead of Chojja being #1 or some silly trivial thing, I think what's important is we can expect to see a dominant Chojja back like Panasonic Style. We hadn't seen as much confidence in Chojja's play. His attack timing is sharper, his micro/macro still superb, and best of all, his textbook of strats has been updated if you guys noticed. Chojja has become a better player. Chojja, like Yellow, are having a return to form! I even bet you, if Jinnam came back, he'd actually win a ZvT!!!!
On May 01 2006 04:56 FrozenArbiter wrote: When did chojja beat xellos 3-0 (I managed to miss this, well, except for references to it)? Very strong performance obviousy, but has he really been tested in a bo5 vs a top terran?
He won 2-0 in a recent MSL, and 1-0 in some Dual Tournament, iirc (although I think Xellos won one game in-between, the one where he stayed several minutes with his firebat/marines in Chojja's main)
I remember some game which was on Forte I think Xellos made some 3 rax attack which failed but he still won, but I could be mistaken.
And I doubt ChoJJa would've won the MSL if he would've faced oov, and he didn't win easy vs IPX even ZvZ is IPXs worst or at least not his best mu
He really does have a point with Chojja being overrated... His ZvZ is just godly, and his other two MU's, though not godly, are both solid (he has no weak MU imo). His micro and macro have always been superb. If he keeps going at the current rate, with a totally expanded book of strats, then he may just become the new zerg king. It's up to that, imo. His strategy and timing have been superb in recent games... If he keeps that up, then I'd say we need to start giving him some serious credit.
With that being said, saying Chojja is > July is kind of goofy. I think that GoRush and ChoJJa are in similar positions right now; rising with the apparent potential of coming out great. But neither player has acheived greatness yet imo, and July has (I'm not just talking about win percentages here; July has something special about him that no other zerg has at the moment). And I guess that Savior is rising with the potential of being great, but he has a lot more to prove imo.
Just like everybody else tfeign, you fail to also highlight the flaws of your favorite player.
ODL R1 he did not go undefeated. Had he done so, it would have been him and not Sea as the 4th seed to OSL.
Also, your perfect 100% average in last MSL was matchwise, not gamewise. I know IPX took one game off him, and I think someone else took a game off him somewhere else as well. He did quite well, but this was no \"flawless\" victory. I\'m pretty sure nobody has achieved that feat yet (though Boxer might have...I recall that at the end of 1.07/begining of 1.08, he went back-to-back in two major tournaments, losing only 2 games and winning both tournies. One of them was Game-Q if my memory serves. God that was long ago).
Well, the best way to look at Chojja I think is matchwise. His ZvZ is without a doubt the best in the world right now, supporting my \"best 1 base Zerg,\" and \"strong micro Zerg\" statements I\'ve made. I\'m pretty sure he has lost only 1 of his last 10 ZvZ games.
ZvT, I really can\'t say he\'s the best. You\'re going to come back arguing that he just beat Oov and that he\'s been decapitating Xellos again and again, but I\'m still not moved enough to put him in the same league as IPX or July. Taking 1 game from Oov does not instantly mean that Chojja\'s ZvT is stronger than July\'s. Remember, Oov changed his TvZ style STRICTLY BECAUSE OF July, so it\'s no real surprise that Oov was able to dismantle him so easily in one bo5 series played all on the same day. And when Chojja beat Oov in OSL, it did not look all that pretty. A single good move won him the game, yet he still wasn\'t able to capitalize on it until a fucking decade later.
You really can\'t argue his ZvT is at the same level as IPXZerg. It is, however, stronger than Gorush\'s right now. In his game vs Sync, they posted the stats from the last 10 OGN ZvT games Gorush has played, and before playing Sync, he had only won 3 of the last 10.
ZvP, I\'d say that Chojja and IPX are about the same level, but July and Gorush are too monster ZvP players that are both better than Chojja.
-------------------------------------
Is he overall the best? Maybe. I\'d say that he is stronger overall than Gorush is at the moment, though Gorush seems to be gaining momentum, so we could see that change. I believe July is stronger at the moment, since July is stronger ZvP and ZvT, and not a whole lot weaker in ZvZ. IPX I\'d say is comparable to Chojja BOTH in his skill set (stronger ZvT, comparable ZvP, weaker ZvZ) AND his achievments (MSL 1st/MSL 2nd as opposed to MSL 3rd/MSL2nd/OSL qualified).
I would conclude that July is still the strongest. Yet, I see July as losing momentum. He was at the top for too long, and players are adapting their styles to defeat his (such as oov vs july in the last OSL finals). Just like Boxer said, you have to keep adapting strategically, and July hasn\'t really adapted yet.
Imho Chojja was once the best zerg in the world, just like Yellow was for a long time. When both Chojja and Nada was in the finals of OSL/MSL Chojja was so good, Nada won 3-2 and all his wins came after some kind of rush. Chojja went into a deep slump, and has just recently been showing signs of his old brilliance. With the recent decline in good TvZ players (Only Boxer, oov and a step below: GF really stands out in this OSL. Others are unproven, slumping or not good enough.) Chojja, being one of the five best zvz players ever and probably the best now, picked a great time for his comeback.
While Cho looks damn strong right now, he'll have to get thru a few terrans before I call him the best atm.
while chojja has done very well since the start of the season, i think its too early to call him the best zerg at the moment.
i also dont know why you keep referring to his recent record vs xellos when you said that xellos "is as much of a threat as casy at the moment" in a discussion about anytime.
On May 01 2006 09:45 Sadist wrote: tfeign is really really really lame.
he abuses and twists statistics to try to sway people to his demented way of thinking.
TFeign watch games, stop bringing up bullshit statistics like they are the be all and end all of bw.
i agree completely. when a player you want to bash loses to xellos (anytime), you bring up xellos's slumping form and when a player you want to worship (chojja) beats him in recent games, you mention it as proof of his godliness in every thread.
On May 01 2006 03:39 iD.SquaLL wrote: not to mention he is the mannerest progamer ever, always shaking his hand after the game is finished =)
I remember a game where he wouldn't leave vs boxer when the game was seriously over and boxer found him by spreading wraiths all around. Also, I do not see him shake hands when he loses, maybe this is because I haven't seen a recent vod of him losing.
Chojja rox. But although it's kind of premature to say that he's the best zerg atm. I'm actually not really sure where to put him in the ranking of zerg players! By the end of the StarLeague though we can truly evaluate this
Chojja has had a good run lately. I wouldn't go any further than that.
I really don't want to get into a big debate here, but I don't think I need to point out that comparing any other Zerg that has ever played the game to July is insane. The guy won everything and beat everyone for over a year.
Chojja has a good couple months and you're saying he's better than July because fatty has lost a bunch of games this month? That's a little unreasonable in my opinion, though Chojja has undenyably awesome ZvZ, I haven't seen anything from his ZvTorP that has impressed my beyond what he has been doing throughout his career.
I would be so bold as to say that he's had some good fortune on his side throughout his OSL games (outside of the ZvZs which were just him being awesome, but they were plenty as well which was good for him) and if he had met Oov in those MSL finals instead of IPX he would've been gorilla raped and none of us would be having these debates right now.
I know you'll jump on that tfeign, so go nuts. But I truely believe all of it.
Cloud will beat chojja, without much difficulty I think on 815 next match. I'm a fanboi, so I still voted for Chojja.
Chojja has had a good run, but he's not better than July imo, or perhaps even Gorush. It's his ZvZ game that's outstanding and what helps him progress, not ZvT. Just about any zerg seem to handle ZvP quite allright though, not much in between them there, but July and Gorush are the only ZvPers I've seen who can fight equally with great high-econ tosses lategame.
Chojja will advance out of groups in OGN, be eliminated if he pairs up against a good terran, progress against a zerg, and 50-50 chance against a good protoss. My take on things.
If anyone is overrated, it is Chojja in this thread. Chojja had such a huge lead in straight up play vs Oov and almost lost the game to Oov's mass tanks. lol. If Chojja was this win this MSL or OSL, it's due to utter luck from his opponent eliminating strong Terrans for him.
When July lose, it's to cheese (5 pool) or build (1 gas expo muta vs nexus sair on 815!). He lost before he even began to play. Last OSL, the maps for ZvT were so lame. Given the same opponents & maps, Chojja may have done worse.
July & Savior[gm] isn't overrated. July was ranked #1 for so long for a reason. TvZ aren't worse like someone mentioned, but they are stronger than before. So good that even nobody Terran will get lucky enough to beat a great zerg. FE Terran is a bitch. Similar to how stats for PvZ, look at the best PvZ player's win percentage??! It's something like 50-60%.
TFeign's stats are utter BS. It belongs in politics, not this forum.
If anyone thinks that ChoJJa has only been doing well for a couple of months, that cannot be any more false. ChoJJa has been doing very well for much longer period of time. He placed top 3 in MSL two seasons ago, and won the last one. He's the last zerg to win a Starleague. Within the past half a year ChoJJa is the most accomplished zerg. July is still ranked as the top zerg in Kespa mainly because of his EVER 2 OSL win that happened nearly a year ago. When that drops off within the next couple months, I wouldn't be surprised if July would fall down as the 3rd or 4th highest rated zerg in Kespa.
Chojja has always been my favorite zerg but I would never consider him the best. I would consider him the best at zvz though. I think Savior has the current best TvZ with PvZ being equal amongst the top players. There are just way too many good zergs right now for someone to proclaim one of them the best.
And yes, he got a lot of ZvP blah blah blah. It doesn't matter, the games weren't even competitive. You don't just absolutely rape Nal_rock and Pusan unless you are a true master of the matchup.
And honestly, Chojja and OOv are pretty evenly matched. The Rush Hour game from pro leauge was unbelievably close. I don't think Chojja beating OOv qualifies as an accomplishment.
On May 01 2006 15:54 racebannon wrote: Chojja has always been my favorite zerg but I would never consider him the best. I would consider him the best at zvz though. I think Savior has the current best TvZ with PvZ being equal amongst the top players. There are just way too many good zergs right now for someone to proclaim one of them the best.
not to nit pick but you have the mu's backwards.
'my pvz is good' with abbreviations: "my protoss versus zerg is good". So saying 'Saviours TvZ is good' would then correlate to "Saviours Terran versus Zerg is good". But i do not think you are referring to his terran.
not trying to be an asshat. but when it comes to things like this clarity is helpful. I don't know if saviour plays terran ever, so it could be confusing if he does. I heard someone say mondi's pvz was good, and when i corrected him i looked like a dumbass because the fellow was indeed referring to Mondi's Protoss. Not his Zerg.
On May 01 2006 15:52 tfeign wrote: If anyone thinks that ChoJJa has only been doing well for a couple of months, that cannot be any more false. ChoJJa has been doing very well for much longer period of time. He placed top 3 in MSL two seasons ago, and won the last one. He's the last zerg to win a Starleague. Within the past half a year ChoJJa is the most accomplished zerg. July is still ranked as the top zerg in Kespa mainly because of his EVER 2 OSL win that happened nearly a year ago. When that drops off within the next couple months, I wouldn't be surprised if July would fall down as the 3rd or 4th highest rated zerg in Kespa.
new kespa only takes into account last 3 months.
time will tell if chojja is just hot for a period of time + riding his zvz or if he really has come up to top level. i think his zvt is still weak, but it seems to be improving quickly (game vs oov the fact that it took that long to finish him and almost let him back in the game wasnt very impressive), and if that gets up to top level he might be the best. and yes, you are skewing the facts in chojjas favor.
i don't paticularly agree w/ using those statistics (maps overlap in all 3 leagues, so its not like he's having to REALLY practice 3 different mapsets)
However, i think Chojja might do some insanely crazy shit in the next few months. He seems really really confident in his play, and has shown some excellent play recently.
So, maybe Chojja != best zerg, but Chojja = next big zerg
On May 01 2006 15:20 ZaplinG wrote: Its all really because his name is garbage.
Is it Cho-JAH? Is it Cho-YAH?
No one knows! Therefore, he remains in obscurity.
I hope you die. Chojja's name is awesome. Means noobface. It's pronounced Cho - Jjah, like.. Cho Chya... but Jja.. feel me? And was Jja ever never top 5 zerg? No...
On May 01 2006 15:20 ZaplinG wrote: Its all really because his name is garbage.
Is it Cho-JAH? Is it Cho-YAH?
No one knows! Therefore, he remains in obscurity.
Cho JJah. I doubt many koreans even know that "J" is pronounced "H" in spanish. His name means beginner btw.
One note on the shaking hands after games thing... A couple of years ago Chojja was one of the younger players in the league. If anybody should go and shake hands, it should be the younger player ( in asia anyway ). Now that there are players like Sea who was born in 1990, Chojja shouldn't be the one going over to shake. Maybe I'm just old fashioned
On May 01 2006 16:16 HungZerg wrote: new kespa only takes into account last 3 months.
Where exactly did you read that kespa only takes into account the last 3 months? It has always taken performance/accomplishments over the recent 12-month period. The only change to the new one is that it also factors in Proleague performance. Almost none of the Kespa rankings for the month of April makes any sense if it only takes into account the past 3 months of performance.
Also to those who still wants to look for more evidence for ChoJJa's ZvT, he went through Boxer 2-0 on his way to getting top 3 MSL two seasons ago.
I'll add it to the original post (didn't even remember about this before). Anyway, 3-0 Xellos, 2-0 Boxer, beating oov on his best map, plus others that I for sure am not remembering all of. That's at least 6-0 against top terrans in Starleague games.
On May 01 2006 15:52 tfeign wrote: If anyone thinks that ChoJJa has only been doing well for a couple of months, that cannot be any more false. ChoJJa has been doing very well for much longer period of time. He placed top 3 in MSL two seasons ago, and won the last one. He's the last zerg to win a Starleague. Within the past half a year ChoJJa is the most accomplished zerg. July is still ranked as the top zerg in Kespa mainly because of his EVER 2 OSL win that happened nearly a year ago. When that drops off within the next couple months, I wouldn't be surprised if July would fall down as the 3rd or 4th highest rated zerg in Kespa.
Chojja's accomplishments in the past half year are NOT sufficiently better than IPX's to conclusively say Chojja is stronger than IPX. PARTICULARLY given the relatively small number of games played in a half year's worth of leagues.
Moreover, if we extend our view back any further beyond your "half year" guideline, we see July as the clear dominant Zerg. You're going to argue that there's no justifiable reason for extending our view back, but your argument is based on the false assumption that a half year is a span of time that is anything other than arbitrary.
In short, YOU ARE CHOOSING THE SPAN OF TIME TO LOOK AT THAT PORTRAY'S CHOJJA IN THE BEST LIGHT.
You lose all rights to criticisze others of fanboy-ism when you so rampantly engage in it. As I outlined in my unbiased analysis (since I don't really have a Zerg idol or any particular reason to favor one Zerg over another), Chojja is clearly a top 3 Zerg right now, but there's not enough else there to justifiably argue that he is, beyond doubt, the best Zerg.
the only matchup where CHojja conclusively stands as the dominant Zerg is ZvZ. His ZvP has yet to leave me as convinced as July or GoRush, and his ZvT has yet to leave me as convinced as IPX. I really don't see how you can argue otherwise on those points, unless you aren't actually watching any of the games he plays.
On May 01 2006 03:39 iD.SquaLL wrote: not to mention he is the mannerest progamer ever, always shaking his hand after the game is finished =)
I remember a game where he wouldn't leave vs boxer when the game was seriously over and boxer found him by spreading wraiths all around. Also, I do not see him shake hands when he loses, maybe this is because I haven't seen a recent vod of him losing.
Not leaving in a tournament match isnt really something I would hold against someone. And he DOES shake hands when he loses, more than when he wins from what I recall. I think his hand shaking deserves a thread of its own since he is one of the only players who will do it in any circumstance(Ive seen some players from same team or after a huge game do it).. The players on the other side always look so sullen when he does it, whether they win or lose. I am always wondering about if this is considered manner over there or what, it seems like more fucking players should do it, but I guess because its a bunch of young kids that they cant be expected to have much empathy yet.
And on topic, Chojja is really old school and definitely has had a long long period of semi-slump. He has been qualifying for leagues pretty consistantly all along though I think. And I really think people are underrating his ZvT. He is pretty much as much of a threat as any other top Z in any match up and his ZvZ is near unconkable... Maybe his results havent reflected this for a while but he is on fire at the moment and we will just have to see if it keeps up. ;] I hope it does, I love the guy.
All the terrans was on to his playingstyle for quite a long time reading him easily since he got too predictable. I don't know if he has adapted or not yet, but I remember when he went for drops in most of his ZvT games. He defeated a Xellos in form like that, but when they met again a month or so later, Xellos just waited him out and proceeded to rape him afterwards.
Drops against terran seems way out of fashion today, and there isn't a top level terran who cannot clear out his base with a handful of marines.
I hope you die. Chojja's name is awesome. Means noobface. It's pronounced Cho - Jjah, like.. Cho Chya... but Jja.. feel me? And was Jja ever never top 5 zerg? No...
Noobface? Hahah, that's great. I knew it had something to do with noob, but this I didn't know. I like the guy even more now.
EPT
tfeign 
) 1 zvt :O. Wait till he wins msl or osl or does really well in the proleague before saying he's top. 
