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On March 19 2012 08:38 Puyi wrote:
i kinda dont like the new sub rules. the fact that no player thats been on the line up can sub-in means only players that weren't on planing on playing in the week are allowed to sub-in. now whats the chances of someone who isn't suspecting to play and havent made the time in their schedule to be on at the given time to be available to act as a sub.
you might as well just say that theres no subs allowed, because you are drastically reducing the chance that a valid sub would even be available. the only people that can sub-in would be the people thats not even gonna be online.
i didnt see anything wrong or abusible with the sub-ins in weeks 1-4, it was the postponing and rescheduling thats causing all the drama and dont understand this sudden change in the rules.
also i liked jealous's suggestion of increasing the late time from 15 to 30 minutes. since after march 25th the times will be changed to an hour earlier for people that had the summer-daytime saving, i can imagine a lot of schedule conflicts. i, personally, will have to play at noon which is when i eat lunch and would most likely have to play either 30 minutes earlier or 30 minutes after the given time.
can i get a response to this?
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On March 20 2012 07:55 Puyi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 08:38 Puyi wrote:
i kinda dont like the new sub rules. the fact that no player thats been on the line up can sub-in means only players that weren't on planing on playing in the week are allowed to sub-in. now whats the chances of someone who isn't suspecting to play and havent made the time in their schedule to be on at the given time to be available to act as a sub.
you might as well just say that theres no subs allowed, because you are drastically reducing the chance that a valid sub would even be available. the only people that can sub-in would be the people thats not even gonna be online.
i didnt see anything wrong or abusible with the sub-ins in weeks 1-4, it was the postponing and rescheduling thats causing all the drama and dont understand this sudden change in the rules.
also i liked jealous's suggestion of increasing the late time from 15 to 30 minutes. since after march 25th the times will be changed to an hour earlier for people that had the summer-daytime saving, i can imagine a lot of schedule conflicts. i, personally, will have to play at noon which is when i eat lunch and would most likely have to play either 30 minutes earlier or 30 minutes after the given time. can i get a response to this?
I like what you're saying. I think it should be left up to the other team whether a sub is acceptable or not.
@EchoOne: Thanks!
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On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you.  Not so much for me.  From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this.
Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one.
I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog
1 gate/12 nexus = dies
1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking)
2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks
2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass
3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario)
1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness
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On March 20 2012 12:43 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:On March 19 2012 11:02 LightningStrike wrote:GG LMaster that was a fun game  Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you. Not so much for me. From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this. Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one. I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog 1 gate/12 nexus = dies 1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking) 2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks 2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass 3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario) 1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness
Yeah, reverse ramp really sucks for PvT, Protoss can't do shit
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On March 20 2012 12:43 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:On March 19 2012 11:02 LightningStrike wrote:GG LMaster that was a fun game Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you. Not so much for me. From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this. Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one. I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog 1 gate/12 nexus = dies 1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking) 2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks 2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass 3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario) 1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness
EDIT: Essentially double post
Psyreaver apparently that's blocked in the USA.
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On March 20 2012 12:54 EchOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 12:43 sluggaslamoo wrote:On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:On March 19 2012 11:02 LightningStrike wrote:GG LMaster that was a fun game Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you. Not so much for me. From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this. Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one. I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog 1 gate/12 nexus = dies 1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking) 2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks 2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass 3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario) 1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness Neo Requiem
hivemind
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um reverse ramp is really good for protoss
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Hey I just wanted to say, GOGO TEAM COURAGE HWAITING OK YOU GOOD!
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On March 20 2012 13:08 puppykiller wrote:
um reverse ramp is really good for protoss
Reverse ramp favors Standard Toss vs Standard Terran, or more generally early aggression. Possibly one of the reasons its in the map pool in the first place. Obviously siege Expand and 1 Rax FE are both really difficult to defend against most Toss builds on reverse ramp, send in an aggressive zealot or two and a rag tag bunker/seige bust army and most of the time you can come out on top if not win outright.
The opposite situation happens when Terran takes the initiative, and is even stronger in this situation when you realise that you have to kill tanks, mines and bunkers on high ground to get out of your main.
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On March 20 2012 13:25 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 13:08 puppykiller wrote:
um reverse ramp is really good for protoss Reverse ramp favors Standard Toss vs Standard Terran, or more generally early aggression. Possibly one of the reasons its in the map pool in the first place. Obviously siege Expand and 1 Rax FE are both really difficult to defend against most Toss builds on reverse ramp, send in an aggressive zealot or two and a rag tag bunker/seige bust army and most of the time you can come out on top if not win outright. The opposite situation happens when Terran takes the initiative, and is even stronger in this situation when you realise that you have to kill tanks, mines and bunkers on high ground to get out of your main.
Yeah, this is the most true statement ever made, P just can't win on reversed ramp maps, you guys shouldn't even bother arguing.
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On March 20 2012 13:19 Kororo wrote:
Hey I just wanted to say, GOGO TEAM COURAGE HWAITING OK YOU GOOD!
Korororororororo <3
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On March 20 2012 12:54 EchOne wrote:
Psyreaver apparently that's blocked in the USA.
Yeah, just saw. Removing my music. I'll have to remember not to start with anything too well known or the youtube processor blocks it, after the first few songs, it doesn't analyze anymore. No ingame sounds then, just music.
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On March 20 2012 12:43 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:On March 19 2012 11:02 LightningStrike wrote:GG LMaster that was a fun game Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you. Not so much for me. From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this. Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one. I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog 1 gate/12 nexus = dies 1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking) 2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks 2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass 3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario) 1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness
You generalize the 1 gate too much... You can make Nexus after 0, 1, or 3 goons (rarely have I seen 2). 3 goons is pretty safe and at that point I usually have scouted the enemy and know whether to start nexus or to add gates... If I smell something fishy I just add gates cut probes and skip robo, that usually handles it nicely and leaves me with an advantage.
The rest of your post assumes that toss will merrily sit at the bottom of his ramp, which is actually more common for Terran... In fact, most P will move out earlier to pressure the T push and slow it down as it comes, and to see what exactly the push is to react accordingly...
Basically, I agree that aggression is favored on reverse ramp maps, but I strongly disagree about Terran being advantaged on them.
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On March 20 2012 12:52 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:For Fabiano Enjoy!
jeez... i hadnt watched the replay yet, but looking the FPVOD it was pretty clear I was behind all game long. :/
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On March 20 2012 12:43 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:On March 19 2012 11:02 LightningStrike wrote:GG LMaster that was a fun game Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you. Not so much for me. From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this. Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one. I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog 1 gate/12 nexus = dies 1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking) 2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks 2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass 3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario) 1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness
You're not playing good Terrans then.
If reverse ramp the Protoss actually has an advantage due to the fact that he can wait outside Terran's ramp and delay any kind of push. 2 gate? No problems to both FD and 2 fact.
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On March 21 2012 00:42 SlowBullets wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 12:43 sluggaslamoo wrote:On March 19 2012 14:23 L_Master wrote:On March 19 2012 11:02 LightningStrike wrote:GG LMaster that was a fun game Haha I'm sure it was, at least for you. Not so much for me. From this game I learned a useful thing: DO NOT upgrade air armor before goon range when doing 21 nexus in PvT. It is very hard to defend an FD if you do this. Basically do not play PvT on reverse ramp map. Nearly every variation of T cheese is good on it and you have to guess which one. I just go 3 fact off 1 base and its auto-win unless you bulldog 1 gate/12 nexus = dies 1 gate reaver = the best you can hope for is worker trade with me lifting and you dying (i usually have turrets ready as I've died to this enough times with fact cheese and used to make the mistake of defending and letting him buy time instead of attacking) 2 gate = can't get up ramp because of mines and goons will miss siege tanks 2 gate robo = not enough goons to defend against mass mines and probe harass 3 gate robo (bulldog) = can win easily if other player doesn't expect it (which I will as its the only really viable build in this scenario) 1 base scout Kal style = possible but need good anti-turret awareness You're not playing good Terrans then. If reverse ramp the Protoss actually has an advantage due to the fact that he can wait outside Terran's ramp and delay any kind of push. 2 gate? No problems to both FD and 2 fact.
Trust this man, he has played many a game on Jade agaisnt aggressive Toss (me) ^^;
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9 minutes left till lineup deadline and I only have 4/10 submitted.
Also, I'm still missing the replays for T3 vs Ace.
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On March 22 2012 02:52 Nikon wrote:
9 minutes left till lineup deadline and I only have 4/10 submitted.
Also, I'm still missing the replays for T3 vs Ace.
Safe to say, if you're posting this 9 minutes till the deadline you wont get them all before the deadline. ;d
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Nikon, I emailed my replay on Friday. Check for Psyonic vs Fabiano Week 4
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EPT
