On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote: So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early.
On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote: C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it).
Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup.
On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote: Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
That's bullshit. You don't practice on ladder, you ladder. Sure, you can improve your general game sense, macro, micro and such, but in the end, sitting down and grinding out 20 TvPs with people you know will help you improve a lot faster than playing 7 TvPs, 8 TvZs and 5 TvTs. Missing focused practice doesn't help.
On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote: I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it?
Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3).
In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.)
Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently).
Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things.
But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
Yeah, it does matter who you're playing against, even in the D ranks. Especially in a tournament, knowing who you're facing and preparing for it is a good confidence boost.
Sure, the league is intended to help people practice, but it's also a tournament. People want to win. Good thing is that winning comes with practice as well. No conflicts there whatsoever.
And no, announcing lineups beforehand is not a change. It was supposed to be this way in Season 1 as well, but for some reason people couldn't make it. This season, the made it. I'm wondering why people exploded about this "issue"... no one cared last week, why the big noise now?
You are wondering why this exploded, because posting lineups beforehand is just a bad idea. None of you guys gave me an appropriate reasoning for this. And "it was supposed to be done like that in season 1" is no reason. Did you see anyone moaning about the lineups not being posted last season? No. Guess why? Because everyone was totally fine with it.
But since you are the organizer you can decide whatever you want, but from my point of view, you should just make poll about that, which starts today and last til next wednesday.
Whatever...
Edit: Imho it is much more important for D rank players to get better overall and thus train every MU the same amount and later on in the C ranks focus to work on your deficit in the every single matchup. But that does not really even matter all that much to that issue.
On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote: So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early.
On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote: C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it).
Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup.
On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote: Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
That's bullshit. You don't practice on ladder, you ladder. Sure, you can improve your general game sense, macro, micro and such, but in the end, sitting down and grinding out 20 TvPs with people you know will help you improve a lot faster than playing 7 TvPs, 8 TvZs and 5 TvTs. Missing focused practice doesn't help.
On March 03 2012 01:25 chrisolo wrote:
On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:
On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote: I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it?
Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3).
In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.)
Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently).
Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things.
But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
Yeah, it does matter who you're playing against, even in the D ranks. Especially in a tournament, knowing who you're facing and preparing for it is a good confidence boost.
Sure, the league is intended to help people practice, but it's also a tournament. People want to win. Good thing is that winning comes with practice as well. No conflicts there whatsoever.
And no, announcing lineups beforehand is not a change. It was supposed to be this way in Season 1 as well, but for some reason people couldn't make it. This season, the made it. I'm wondering why people exploded about this "issue"... no one cared last week, why the big noise now?
You are wondering why this exploded, because posting lineups beforehand is just a bad idea. None of you guys gave me an appropriate reasoning for this. And "it was supposed to be done like that in season 1" is no reason. Did you see anyone moaning about the lineups not being posted last season? No. Guess why? Because everyone was totally fine with it.
But since you are the organizer you can decide whatever you want, but from my point of view, you should just make poll about that, which starts today and last til next wednesday.
Whatever...
Edit: Imho it is much more important for D rank players to get better overall and thus train every MU the same amount and later on in the C ranks focus to work on your deficit in the every single matchup. But that does not really even matter all that much to that issue.
I personally didn't answer you because it is too much effort to explain to someone why their opinion might be different from someone else's. You say it yourself: "IMHO it is much more important..." Well, guess what, not everyone shares your opinion. Here is my opinion:
I want to practice one match-up before each game, because the only relevant practice to that match is within the same MU. I will be able to practice other MUs as they come, because I will most likely face different races eventually within the league, and then I will prepare for them just as I did for this match. I want to be able to watch my opponents' replays and see what their style is, and try to think of counter-builds or at least know if I should expect cheese or not. My opponent does the same, resulting in potentially more interesting games. We also devote more time to the specific MU leading up to the match itself, therefore our skill in that MU is close to our natural peak (assuming we both practice). Peak play is best for the league and for improvement. If MUs are undisclosed, you have to practice three times as much in total in order to achieve the same level of proficiency in the MU that you will actually play. I see this as detrimental to match quality and practice quality. Practicing 1 build, 1 MU at a time is what professionals do, I imagine there is a reason behind that, and that it would help a D ranked player as well.
This is my opinion, you have your opinion. I personally much prefer line-ups being posted ahead of time. It also resolves a lot of scheduling issues, because players contact each other directly and work things out that way and as a result it alleviates some of the coordination pressure of captains because they don't have to play telephone. The point about no one whining last season was because there is no precedent to compare it to, and management was weak in general (apparently, I take this from other sources) and did not enforce the cohesive structure. Now that there is strong leadership, why not take advantage of it?
I think I gave you plenty of good reasons, can you drop it now?
On March 03 2012 11:54 Puyi wrote: what is the official rules for players rescheduling or player replacing a player on the lineup?
It's looked down upon and shouldn't ever really happen. I realize this. Also, you can't really even go about this sort of thing unless the opponent agrees and that wouldn't really be fair to him.
well so far 2 of my team's opponents asked to either reschedule or replace themselves and me and my teammate "agreed"
srry to double post but i'd also like to add that for my teammate, the time that was rescheduled is 2am for him and my replacement player is a Z player instead of the original P player i practiced for(and i found out my mu is a tvz instead of tvp on friday night), which gives me and my teammate a disadvantage. therefore, i asked for the the official rules because i want to know whether it is ok to refuse to the offer and get an automatic win or to get a win after you play whether you win or lose.
i'd prefer if nixon can reply to this himself to avoid further confusion.
On March 01 2012 15:50 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: Videos going up on youtube. I'll be doing Team 3 vs Team 8 first tonight. Tomorrow night I'll do another set, so on and so forth until the next replay pack is released.
Brent if it comes down to it when our two teams meet we can settle the ace match with a speed commentary dual instead!
send me reps @ klive_love_amaths@live.com + send me overlay program ( give me link also can ) remember to add in tutorial on how to use it !! team courage and team 4
On March 04 2012 01:53 S2Glow wrote: send me reps @ klive_love_amaths@live.com + send me overlay program ( give me link also can ) remember to add in tutorial on how to use it !! team courage and team 4
On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote: So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early.
On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote: C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it).
Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup.
On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote: Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
That's bullshit. You don't practice on ladder, you ladder. Sure, you can improve your general game sense, macro, micro and such, but in the end, sitting down and grinding out 20 TvPs with people you know will help you improve a lot faster than playing 7 TvPs, 8 TvZs and 5 TvTs. Missing focused practice doesn't help.
On March 03 2012 01:25 chrisolo wrote:
On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:
On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote: I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it?
Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3).
In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.)
Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently).
Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things.
But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
Yeah, it does matter who you're playing against, even in the D ranks. Especially in a tournament, knowing who you're facing and preparing for it is a good confidence boost.
Sure, the league is intended to help people practice, but it's also a tournament. People want to win. Good thing is that winning comes with practice as well. No conflicts there whatsoever.
And no, announcing lineups beforehand is not a change. It was supposed to be this way in Season 1 as well, but for some reason people couldn't make it. This season, the made it. I'm wondering why people exploded about this "issue"... no one cared last week, why the big noise now?
You are wondering why this exploded, because posting lineups beforehand is just a bad idea. None of you guys gave me an appropriate reasoning for this. And "it was supposed to be done like that in season 1" is no reason. Did you see anyone moaning about the lineups not being posted last season? No. Guess why? Because everyone was totally fine with it.
But since you are the organizer you can decide whatever you want, but from my point of view, you should just make poll about that, which starts today and last til next wednesday.
Whatever...
Edit: Imho it is much more important for D rank players to get better overall and thus train every MU the same amount and later on in the C ranks focus to work on your deficit in the every single matchup. But that does not really even matter all that much to that issue.
I personally didn't answer you because it is too much effort to explain to someone why their opinion might be different from someone else's. You say it yourself: "IMHO it is much more important..." Well, guess what, not everyone shares your opinion. Here is my opinion:
I want to practice one match-up before each game, because the only relevant practice to that match is within the same MU. I will be able to practice other MUs as they come, because I will most likely face different races eventually within the league, and then I will prepare for them just as I did for this match. I want to be able to watch my opponents' replays and see what their style is, and try to think of counter-builds or at least know if I should expect cheese or not. My opponent does the same, resulting in potentially more interesting games. We also devote more time to the specific MU leading up to the match itself, therefore our skill in that MU is close to our natural peak (assuming we both practice). Peak play is best for the league and for improvement. If MUs are undisclosed, you have to practice three times as much in total in order to achieve the same level of proficiency in the MU that you will actually play. I see this as detrimental to match quality and practice quality. Practicing 1 build, 1 MU at a time is what professionals do, I imagine there is a reason behind that, and that it would help a D ranked player as well.
This is my opinion, you have your opinion. I personally much prefer line-ups being posted ahead of time. It also resolves a lot of scheduling issues, because players contact each other directly and work things out that way and as a result it alleviates some of the coordination pressure of captains because they don't have to play telephone. The point about no one whining last season was because there is no precedent to compare it to, and management was weak in general (apparently, I take this from other sources) and did not enforce the cohesive structure. Now that there is strong leadership, why not take advantage of it?
I think I gave you plenty of good reasons, can you drop it now?
That is why I wanted a poll about that issue, to see what the majority thinks. And no I won't drop it, because you want me to do so. Either Nikon says his decission is final (what would be understandable but still a bit patronizing) or we get that poll, which will solve that issue. Easy as can be...
well i cant really co-cast with anybody cause i am not skill-ed enough. you can cast on my stream though! i volunteer to help you move screen. i am good at it :D
On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote: So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early.
On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote: C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it).
Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup.
On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote: Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
That's bullshit. You don't practice on ladder, you ladder. Sure, you can improve your general game sense, macro, micro and such, but in the end, sitting down and grinding out 20 TvPs with people you know will help you improve a lot faster than playing 7 TvPs, 8 TvZs and 5 TvTs. Missing focused practice doesn't help.
On March 03 2012 01:25 chrisolo wrote:
On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:
On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote: I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it?
Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3).
In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.)
Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently).
Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things.
But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
Yeah, it does matter who you're playing against, even in the D ranks. Especially in a tournament, knowing who you're facing and preparing for it is a good confidence boost.
Sure, the league is intended to help people practice, but it's also a tournament. People want to win. Good thing is that winning comes with practice as well. No conflicts there whatsoever.
And no, announcing lineups beforehand is not a change. It was supposed to be this way in Season 1 as well, but for some reason people couldn't make it. This season, the made it. I'm wondering why people exploded about this "issue"... no one cared last week, why the big noise now?
You are wondering why this exploded, because posting lineups beforehand is just a bad idea. None of you guys gave me an appropriate reasoning for this. And "it was supposed to be done like that in season 1" is no reason. Did you see anyone moaning about the lineups not being posted last season? No. Guess why? Because everyone was totally fine with it.
But since you are the organizer you can decide whatever you want, but from my point of view, you should just make poll about that, which starts today and last til next wednesday.
Whatever...
Edit: Imho it is much more important for D rank players to get better overall and thus train every MU the same amount and later on in the C ranks focus to work on your deficit in the every single matchup. But that does not really even matter all that much to that issue.
I personally didn't answer you because it is too much effort to explain to someone why their opinion might be different from someone else's. You say it yourself: "IMHO it is much more important..." Well, guess what, not everyone shares your opinion. Here is my opinion:
I want to practice one match-up before each game, because the only relevant practice to that match is within the same MU. I will be able to practice other MUs as they come, because I will most likely face different races eventually within the league, and then I will prepare for them just as I did for this match. I want to be able to watch my opponents' replays and see what their style is, and try to think of counter-builds or at least know if I should expect cheese or not. My opponent does the same, resulting in potentially more interesting games. We also devote more time to the specific MU leading up to the match itself, therefore our skill in that MU is close to our natural peak (assuming we both practice). Peak play is best for the league and for improvement. If MUs are undisclosed, you have to practice three times as much in total in order to achieve the same level of proficiency in the MU that you will actually play. I see this as detrimental to match quality and practice quality. Practicing 1 build, 1 MU at a time is what professionals do, I imagine there is a reason behind that, and that it would help a D ranked player as well.
This is my opinion, you have your opinion. I personally much prefer line-ups being posted ahead of time. It also resolves a lot of scheduling issues, because players contact each other directly and work things out that way and as a result it alleviates some of the coordination pressure of captains because they don't have to play telephone. The point about no one whining last season was because there is no precedent to compare it to, and management was weak in general (apparently, I take this from other sources) and did not enforce the cohesive structure. Now that there is strong leadership, why not take advantage of it?
I think I gave you plenty of good reasons, can you drop it now?
That is why I wanted a poll about that issue, to see what the majority thinks. And no I won't drop it, because you want me to do so. Either Nikon says his decission is final (what would be understandable but still a bit patronizing) or we get that poll, which will solve that issue. Easy as can be...
The majority? Listen here, and listen good - there are literally TWO people complaining about this. Nobody said anything in week one. I'm not going to repeat what I've said about it in previous posts, since you don't appear to be someone that is willing to read my reasoning for it, so I'll just say: There won't be a poll about it. The rules were posted well before the league started, and everyone has had ample opportunity to familiarise with them and object beforehand. The same rule existed for the first season as well. Just because it couldn't be enforced back then, doesn't mean that I will not try to enforce it as best as I can now.
On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote: So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early.
On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote: C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it).
Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup.
On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote: Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
That's bullshit. You don't practice on ladder, you ladder. Sure, you can improve your general game sense, macro, micro and such, but in the end, sitting down and grinding out 20 TvPs with people you know will help you improve a lot faster than playing 7 TvPs, 8 TvZs and 5 TvTs. Missing focused practice doesn't help.
On March 03 2012 01:25 chrisolo wrote:
On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:
On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote: I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it?
Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3).
In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.)
Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently).
Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things.
But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
Yeah, it does matter who you're playing against, even in the D ranks. Especially in a tournament, knowing who you're facing and preparing for it is a good confidence boost.
Sure, the league is intended to help people practice, but it's also a tournament. People want to win. Good thing is that winning comes with practice as well. No conflicts there whatsoever.
And no, announcing lineups beforehand is not a change. It was supposed to be this way in Season 1 as well, but for some reason people couldn't make it. This season, the made it. I'm wondering why people exploded about this "issue"... no one cared last week, why the big noise now?
You are wondering why this exploded, because posting lineups beforehand is just a bad idea. None of you guys gave me an appropriate reasoning for this. And "it was supposed to be done like that in season 1" is no reason. Did you see anyone moaning about the lineups not being posted last season? No. Guess why? Because everyone was totally fine with it.
But since you are the organizer you can decide whatever you want, but from my point of view, you should just make poll about that, which starts today and last til next wednesday.
Whatever...
Edit: Imho it is much more important for D rank players to get better overall and thus train every MU the same amount and later on in the C ranks focus to work on your deficit in the every single matchup. But that does not really even matter all that much to that issue.
I personally didn't answer you because it is too much effort to explain to someone why their opinion might be different from someone else's. You say it yourself: "IMHO it is much more important..." Well, guess what, not everyone shares your opinion. Here is my opinion:
I want to practice one match-up before each game, because the only relevant practice to that match is within the same MU. I will be able to practice other MUs as they come, because I will most likely face different races eventually within the league, and then I will prepare for them just as I did for this match. I want to be able to watch my opponents' replays and see what their style is, and try to think of counter-builds or at least know if I should expect cheese or not. My opponent does the same, resulting in potentially more interesting games. We also devote more time to the specific MU leading up to the match itself, therefore our skill in that MU is close to our natural peak (assuming we both practice). Peak play is best for the league and for improvement. If MUs are undisclosed, you have to practice three times as much in total in order to achieve the same level of proficiency in the MU that you will actually play. I see this as detrimental to match quality and practice quality. Practicing 1 build, 1 MU at a time is what professionals do, I imagine there is a reason behind that, and that it would help a D ranked player as well.
This is my opinion, you have your opinion. I personally much prefer line-ups being posted ahead of time. It also resolves a lot of scheduling issues, because players contact each other directly and work things out that way and as a result it alleviates some of the coordination pressure of captains because they don't have to play telephone. The point about no one whining last season was because there is no precedent to compare it to, and management was weak in general (apparently, I take this from other sources) and did not enforce the cohesive structure. Now that there is strong leadership, why not take advantage of it?
I think I gave you plenty of good reasons, can you drop it now?
That is why I wanted a poll about that issue, to see what the majority thinks. And no I won't drop it, because you want me to do so. Either Nikon says his decission is final (what would be understandable but still a bit patronizing) or we get that poll, which will solve that issue. Easy as can be...
The majority? Listen here, and listen good - there are literally TWO people complaining about this. Nobody said anything in week one. I'm not going to repeat what I've said about it in previous posts, since you don't appear to be someone that is willing to read my reasoning for it, so I'll just say: There won't be a poll about it. The rules were posted well before the league started, and everyone has had ample opportunity to familiarise with them and object beforehand. The same rule existed for the first season as well. Just because it couldn't be enforced back then, doesn't mean that I will not try to enforce it as best as I can now.
Ok chill dude, no need to be rude. I never said I represent the majority, but wanted to see how the majority thinks about it with a poll. But whatever. I'll shut up now since you guys will never even try to understand it, when you are not a racepicker yourself... sad, but true.
On March 04 2012 02:36 S2Glow wrote: well i cant really co-cast with anybody cause i am not skill-ed enough. you can cast on my stream though! i volunteer to help you move screen. i am good at it :D
http://www.twitch.tv/kliveaw/b/310494178 << Team 4 vs courage 1st ~ 4th game. 4th game my internet kinda died. which is sad :/ , match start around 46:20.. so please fast forward ^^
EPT
reply to this msg if you want to be on the StaR Maknaes 
