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Eh, what's with people saying "D rank players should focus on getting better not on trying to win"? I thought this was a tournament thread, not a practice partner exchange thread. Why would anyone even sign up for a tournament, regardless of the ranks involved, if they weren't trying to win in it? Besides, if I wanted practice partners to train more efficiently I would still ask what race they play and prepare accordingly in advance, so I really don't see where are these arguments coming from. Last I checked, if anyone wanted to play random games against random opponents without any specific preparation, they could always go play some ladder games.
Oh well, I don't really care enough about the issue to continue the debate anyway.
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So UED...im very dissapoint 
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What is it with all this drama?
Chrisolo you are being way too condescending about the fact that this is a D rank league. These people just don't make mistakes early game and the majority of their problems come mid/lategame cuz they don't quite understand the match ups and lack the multitask to execute the correct strategies past the first let's say 8 min (arbitrarily so).
Having to start with a disadvantage is not only annoying for the player who has it, but unfair on principle, regardless of what you think of it. The principle of a league is being competitive, and being handicapped from the beginning is unsportsmanlike. Now, if you're a race picker and you don't have the decency to say what match up you intend to play you have a preparation advantage over your opponent, regardless of it being significant or not, it's just petty to give a response like "you'll find out at the time of the match".
Now listing everyone as racepickers is obviously not a solution because some of the players on the league know each other and know that race each other play. I'm not gonna learn to play zerg in 4 days just to screw with my opponent if I'm listed as a race picker.
So, with all due respect, save your condescending attitude to yourself.
We have 2 choices to deal with this. Either stop announcing the lineups in advance, or list what match ups people really expect to play. If someone can play all 3 races equally well, then let it be known, because even if you choose to play a particular one, you've still put the work to be proficient at all 3, rather than just pick a different match up because you don't like your mirror, or you learned one match up because you feel that race has an advantage vs. the other.
Now @ L_Master, I think they're bugged by the apm issue because some people can just win games by virtue of their mechanics. While it is true that your apm is over 250, your redundancy rate is over 50%, while there are some people who reach up to 180 EAPM, and that just seems ridiculous.
In regards to this, I will not pronounce an opinion because APM isn't everything and if I can out strategize my oponent then that need not be a concern.
This whole thing about race picking is to me an issue of competitive ethic, and I don't see why an opponent can't reply: "I play both races equally well, or I pick PvZ" honestly when asked what race he will play rather than say "You'll find out when the game begins" That's just poor sportsmanship IMO.
If this becomes an ongoing problem I'll withdraw myself from the league because I didn't sign up for drama and people trying to take advantage of ambiguities in the system. That's just pathetic.
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On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well?
It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama.
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Now @ L_Master, I think they're bugged by the apm issue because some people can just win games by virtue of their mechanics. While it is true that your apm is over 250, your redundancy rate is over 50%, while there are some people who reach up to 180 EAPM, and that just seems ridiculous.
This is true, but as far as mechanics go APM, and even EAPM, don't equate always with mechanics.
As to myself my EAPM varies between about 130-180 depending on the game, usually averaging around 145-155.
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On March 03 2012 02:14 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote:
So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up. So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early. Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote:
C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league. What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun. If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it). Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup. Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote:
Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it. Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
keyword you seemed to have missed: OR
you decide what matchups you play or pick a race for that map... or decide what matchups you gonna play on that map. it's no disadvantage.
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On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM: Show nested quote +
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama.
If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1.
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On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:25 chrisolo wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote:
I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it? Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3). In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is... You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.) Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random). Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently). Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things. But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore. We talked to Nikon about this. A: matchups were supposed to be submitted last season as well, just due to bad organizing from most of the teams it was soon dropped. B: having your name on the match list is a lot more motivating to turn up on the given date. C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
I actually disagree with all of these claims.
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On March 03 2012 03:49 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama. If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1.
You could sign your whole team up with all three races and EVERYONE is going to know what races they're going to play. And if your team metagames and decides to fool everyone, joke's on them, most players can't offrace.
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On March 03 2012 03:54 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:49 Djagulingu wrote:On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama. If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1. You could sign your whole team up with all three races and EVERYONE is going to know what races they're going to play. And if your team metagames and decides to fool everyone, joke's on them, most players can't offrace.
Not if they dont know what race you played previously. Like, player X just joins the league, or player Y was a race picker before, if you list them as all three races you wont know what MUs they place.
I don't have to announce race to you
Yes, you do in fact have to announce what race are you playing. Regarding that to "you", he already announce what race he was playing to you indirectly.
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On March 03 2012 04:04 Obelisco wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:54 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 03:49 Djagulingu wrote:On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama. If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1. You could sign your whole team up with all three races and EVERYONE is going to know what races they're going to play. And if your team metagames and decides to fool everyone, joke's on them, most players can't offrace. Not if they dont know what race you played previously. Like, player X just joins the league, or player Y was a race picker before, if you list them as all three races you wont know what MUs they place. Yes, you do in fact have to announce what race are you playing. Regarding that to "you", he already announce what race he was playing to you indirectly.
Rules:
If you have an issue during match time please contact DRTL.Nikon on iCCup to resolve it.
No BMing
Winning team sends replays to dteamleague@gmail following the matches.
Standard ICCUP rules apply
No excessive chatting, ie do not be distracting during the middle of the game
If two players are race pickers they must announce their races before joining the game.
Players need to identify which team they are playing with in their profile during match time.
Players must play using the ID they used to sign up.
Games must be played on the maps listed in the schedule.
Maps must come from the latest ICCUP mappack.
If a player disconnects in the first three minutes then a regame will be granted. If the same player disconnects again they will be d/q. Any disconnect after three minutes will be reviewed by DRTL.Nikon unless one of the players willingly forfeits.
Please, highlight appropriate rule for that.
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On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM: Show nested quote +
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama.
What I said is not falsified in the slightest. Would you have had me say "Some player told me that they don't need to tell me their race, is that supposed to stay the same?" I did not mean it as an affront to. You DID say you didn't have to tell me your race, this is what I was working off of because I needed clarification. Talking about drama is as pointless as drama is, I'll leave it at that.
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Why am I creating drama, by trying to make my statement clear? I never tried to be aggresive or anything you try to read (esp. Crazyhorse) out of my posts.
I just don't see any reasons to post the matchups beforehand. It is just creating a bad situation for racepickers. If matchups wouldnt be announced in the mid of the week, but instead 10 minutes (or something appropriate) there would be no discussion like that.
Only real pro-argument for posting the matchup beforehand I have read in this thread is that players feel like 'pros'. Maybe this is like that (not to take anything away from this argument, but I cannot understand how this helps to feel like a pro o,o - but maybe I just do not see the real point of it). Now if you would post the matchups right before the match starts there is NO disadvantage for anyone. So why would you consider creating a disadvantage for racepickers?
Now you may ask yourself how posting the race one will play is a disadvantage. I can tell you that for those who play multiple matchups against a single race, you have much broader varience in confidence in your races. F.e. if you ladder and only get to play ZvP, you do not feel that good about TvP or PvP. It is possible to train the specific matchup, but there is still a much bigger variation in your play then when you play just one race.
If you can tell me one good reason, why matchups should be posted beforehand (beside of the "feel like a pro"-argument), I will shut up and agree on your oppinion. But as I do not see any need of this, it just feels like you force racepickers to play according "your" rules. Everyone should have equal position (and I do not disagree with you that it is unfair for the one-race-players, when only the opponent knows the race -> this can be solved by not releasing matchups til playdate).
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On March 03 2012 03:08 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
Chrisolo you are being way too condescending about the fact that this is a D rank league. These people just don't make mistakes early game and the majority of their problems come mid/lategame cuz they don't quite understand the match ups and lack the multitask to execute the correct strategies past the first let's say 8 min (arbitrarily so).
I disagree. Most of the times worse players lack the general mechanics and gamesense. Sure there are D-Rankers that can play a BO good, but that does not mean they (or better: we) are good in early game.
On March 03 2012 03:08 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
Having to start with a disadvantage is not only annoying for the player who has it, but unfair on principle, regardless of what you think of it. The principle of a league is being competitive, and being handicapped from the beginning is unsportsmanlike. Now, if you're a race picker and you don't have the decency to say what match up you intend to play you have a preparation advantage over your opponent, regardless of it being significant or not, it's just petty to give a response like "you'll find out at the time of the match".
I am agreeing on that case, but it is also unfair to force someone to play with a race he might feel confident on Tuesday, but not on saturday (playdate), what do you think?
On March 03 2012 03:46 HeaDStrong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 02:14 chrisolo wrote:On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote:
So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up. So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early. On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote:
C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league. What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun. If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it). Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup. On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote:
Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it. Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout. keyword you seemed to have missed: ORyou decide what matchups you play or pick a race for that map... or decide what matchups you gonna play on that map. it's no disadvantage.
I have seen that OR, but that would be also a disadvantage for some racepickers, as stated above. For me the easy solution is as I already stated like 20 times to not post the matchups before the matches. I do not see how this could be any harm to anyone.
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so no1 is gonna sign me? D:
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On March 03 2012 03:54 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:49 Djagulingu wrote:On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama. If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1. You could sign your whole team up with all three races and EVERYONE is going to know what races they're going to play. And if your team metagames and decides to fool everyone, joke's on them, most players can't offrace.
The point is that I've been asked about the race one of my teammates was going to play, and that's how it's supposed to be done.
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On March 03 2012 04:10 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:04 Obelisco wrote:On March 03 2012 03:54 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 03:49 Djagulingu wrote:On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama. If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1. You could sign your whole team up with all three races and EVERYONE is going to know what races they're going to play. And if your team metagames and decides to fool everyone, joke's on them, most players can't offrace. Not if they dont know what race you played previously. Like, player X just joins the league, or player Y was a race picker before, if you list them as all three races you wont know what MUs they place.
I don't have to announce race to you
Yes, you do in fact have to announce what race are you playing. Regarding that to "you", he already announce what race he was playing to you indirectly. Rules: If you have an issue during match time please contact DRTL.Nikon on iCCup to resolve it. No BMing Winning team sends replays to dteamleague@gmail following the matches. Standard ICCUP rules apply No excessive chatting, ie do not be distracting during the middle of the game If two players are race pickers they must announce their races before joining the game. Players need to identify which team they are playing with in their profile during match time. Players must play using the ID they used to sign up. Games must be played on the maps listed in the schedule. Maps must come from the latest ICCUP mappack. If a player disconnects in the first three minutes then a regame will be granted. If the same player disconnects again they will be d/q. Any disconnect after three minutes will be reviewed by DRTL.Nikon unless one of the players willingly forfeits. Please, highlight appropriate rule for that.
If you are not a Race picker then you must play with one Race (its not plural) and enter with that single race to DRTL. Thats just common sense.
When you sign up as a free agent, you must specify race as its a needed information. I guess you are trying to take advantage of this not being specified 100%. But its common sense, I guess Nikon should take care of this. Or else everyone can sign up as the 3 races just to confuse everyone else.
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I just started playing brood war. And ever since i started a little over a week ago i have just specifically been practicing ZvT. Its very hard to try and remember 3 build orders at once when just learning, so i would like to know the matchup before hand incase i have to play a ZvP or ZvZ. That way i can at least practice a 3hatch spire 5hatch hydra build, instead of just doing something like a 5pool cause i have no idea what to do against Protoss.
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On March 03 2012 04:53 YaGaMi98 wrote:
so no1 is gonna sign me? D:
Yagami, Team 7 wants to sign you!
We are far from being the strongest team, but if you want to join us you are welcome 
I've been keeping a blog each week we play, this week's blog is here.
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On March 03 2012 05:46 Obelisco wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:10 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 04:04 Obelisco wrote:On March 03 2012 03:54 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 03:49 Djagulingu wrote:On March 03 2012 03:43 Eywa- wrote:On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well? It's a nice try at trying to make me look bad, but being as your post is about a day after this PM:
To: Jealous [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: drtl
Date: 3/2/12 06:07
Lemme know what time. I don't have to announce race to you, but I'll probably be playing Protoss (as always)...
Original Message From Jealous:
Race?
Show nested quote +
I think its safe to say you're just trying to create drama. If you play multiple races, you have to announce which race you're going to play. I was asked about Music's race when I was trying to put him in the lineups and that's how it's supposed to be. Shit, don't I know how to sign my entire team up as a bunch of racepickers who play all 3 races? Hell, we even will change our races during the countdown just to piss opponents off. That's pure bullshit. When lineups are announced, so are races of players who can play more than 1. You could sign your whole team up with all three races and EVERYONE is going to know what races they're going to play. And if your team metagames and decides to fool everyone, joke's on them, most players can't offrace. Not if they dont know what race you played previously. Like, player X just joins the league, or player Y was a race picker before, if you list them as all three races you wont know what MUs they place.
I don't have to announce race to you
Yes, you do in fact have to announce what race are you playing. Regarding that to "you", he already announce what race he was playing to you indirectly. Rules: If you have an issue during match time please contact DRTL.Nikon on iCCup to resolve it. No BMing Winning team sends replays to dteamleague@gmail following the matches. Standard ICCUP rules apply No excessive chatting, ie do not be distracting during the middle of the game Players need to identify which team they are playing with in their profile during match time. Players must play using the ID they used to sign up. Games must be played on the maps listed in the schedule. Maps must come from the latest ICCUP mappack. If a player disconnects in the first three minutes then a regame will be granted. If the same player disconnects again they will be d/q. Any disconnect after three minutes will be reviewed by DRTL.Nikon unless one of the players willingly forfeits. Please, highlight appropriate rule for that. If you are not a Race picker then you must play with one Race (its not plural) and enter with that single race to DRTL. Thats just common sense. When you sign up as a free agent, you must specify race as its a needed information. I guess you are trying to take advantage of this not being specified 100%. But its common sense, I guess Nikon should take care of this. Or else everyone can sign up as the 3 races just to confuse everyone else.
If two players are race pickers they must announce their races before joining the game.
The rule you highlighted clearly states if TWO players are race pickers, they must announce their races before joining the game.
^ This rule is simply to avoid conflict of two people are racepicking, it eventually becomes a race pick up till the countdown is over which is of course less than ideal. Thus, players have to announce going into the game. This has nothing to do with Race picker vs someone who doesn't race pick.
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Wow, this thing sure got out of hand o_O
I really didn't expect such a provocation to arise simply because the match lineups are posted ahead of time, especially since no one seemed to mind last week.
The fact of the matter is that I asked racepickers to announce what race they're going to play, but AFTER their opponent has been revealed. It's not like they're blindly announcing their race. Like I said before, lineup logistics are a bit slow, and cause some unfortunate delays. The rule that states that players must announce their race before joining the game is a legacy from Season 1, where teams had all kinds of activity and scheduling problems. I apologise for the confusion caused by this. The rule has been changed to better reflect the reality of Season 2.
As for not announcing matchups ahead of time - they are being announced 96 hours after the previous week's games have finished. I feel like this is a good balance between time for general practice, and time in which you know what matchup you'll be playing, and hence, practicing for it. While it's true that this league is designed people to get better, it is also a tournament, so an arrangement like is this is most appropriate. Moreover, it DOES help activity... last season there was such a huge wave of no-shows that the format had to be changed from 7 to 5 games, for crying out loud.
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EPT
