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On March 02 2012 19:58 floi wrote:Concerning our (UED Academy's) lineup - yea it sucks and also have sent a pm to Bloodspray a while ago... As a matter of fact, it's not really the fault of the players...  Re: racepicking As I don't really see the use of generalizations about what people should do, what their motivations are for playing in DRTL or whether it's better to practice one MU or 3 - I would personally prefer the race to be clear from the lineup, because I personally think it would benefit my preparations. Also adds to the character and hype of the league, because it kinda feels more serious if you practice both MU and map specifically to try and get an edge from it. Maybe a poll addressed at the players might solve this problem?
Dude where the hell is Bloodspray man ??? I tried to contact him on uedgaming.com and I can't . Most of our team mates are pretty dead with the fishes as they are usually off line . Also talking about the issue of line up's, we are having our own issue of line ups with no way of contacting any of our team mates . How are we suppose to know whose playing tomorrow ? .
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Just to clarify: Would it be possible to say fill in for a teammate playing the exact same race they were playing? I think it'd be interesting to see the amount of people who check the previous replays of the player their facing.
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On March 02 2012 17:25 fold wrote:
Does any team need a protoss/TvP/ZvP coach? I'd be happy to help your team.
Yea we need a coach
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On March 02 2012 11:56 Nikon wrote:
As for racepickers, I do ask the captains about their players' choice of race, but sometimes they're just a tad slow in relaying the information. I did this in Week 1 as well, and no one complained about it, to my knowledge. Now, you might say that this gives an advantage to the person that plays multiple races, but the fact of the matter is that the said person has to vary his training schedule more. Playing PvP in Week 4 is vastly different from playing ZvT in Week 5, for example. Personally, I'd like to keep the pick method the way it currently is, but there are some problems with the speed that people rely lineups, and subsequently, player race choice to me.
Speaking of delayed lineups, UED Academy has yet to submit theirs. It's now 33 hours sine the deadline for the lineups was passed. I have sent PMs asking for the lineup, but there hasn't been a meaningful response yet. As such, UED academy will be starting their games on Saturday with a 1 game deficit. If they do not submit the lineup by 11:00 GMT today, they will be starting the match with a 2 game deficit. It sucks that I have to do this disciplinary action, but the whole purpose of announcing the lineup was that people could focus their practice for the latter part of the week, and I feel that not submitting your lineup is really unfair to people who do.
Wait so Eywa flat out told me he doesn't need to tell me his race even after I asked him, is that supposed to stay the same as well?
On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote:
I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it?
Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P.
Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3).
In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
On March 02 2012 06:32 olabaz wrote:
Why don't we just all list ourselves as race pickers so no one knows what we're going to play!
Good idea. Nikon, add all the races to every person on our team please (I'm not joking). Although, it might be easier to just remove all races from all our players.
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Oh, can you please change Bad]Seed to racepicker. I told you he was zerg, but apparently he's a racepicker o.o
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On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote:
I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it? Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3). In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is...
You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.)
Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently).
Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things.
But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
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Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random).
Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
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Why don't we all just play nice? Drop the drama-esque tone and discuss this.
Here's my view. I think race picking should be done blindly and explicitly without any prior knowledge of the opposing pick. Let me explain.
A: The racepicker feels like playing Zerg on Aztec this week so once the line up is submitted the player is explicitly listed as Zerg on that map and that week and must be playing Zerg.
B: The racepicker wants to play TvZ, TvP or PvT if his opponent happens to be a Terran. This must be declared in advance, maybe in the team roster.
So once we submit the line ups both sides have sent out their players blindly (or on w/e assumptions and guesses they make), and it keeps a fair symmetry in their decisions and available information. But if a race picker can choose his race already knowing his opponent and not even announcing it until the match day. There is a clear breaking in symmetry and somewhat unfair grounds.
And in case of race pick vs race pick, the current rules already cover that.
So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
Again this just sounds the most reasonable approach. It's both fair and also Nikon does not have to chase down all race pickers and find out what the want to play, which is another step to cleaner and easier organization of this league.
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On March 03 2012 01:25 chrisolo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:06 Jealous wrote:On March 02 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote:
I hate the fact that most people ignore, that Racepicker/Random player have to know more then 3 matchups. For Random it is even 9 MU you need to know, so Randomplayers are at a disadvantage by default.
Just play ladder and train like that if you wish to practice for your match, it won't be hurting to do that. In Proleague the Proplayers do not know which matchup they will play and it still works, doesn't it? Example: Person A has themselves listed as P T Z. Person B has themselves listed as P. Person B has to practice for 3 MUs. Person A only has to practice 1, because he just picks one race he will play and that's that, something that remains a mystery to person B. This is why racepicking doesn't have the same difficulty as random, and no they often DON'T need to know more than 3 matchups (for example, pvt tvz zvp covers all 3). In the past proleague DID have matches announced and it was only removed due to matchfixing and etc. I personally think it was the superior system. If line-ups are to be posted, I think they should be done fully, with no clear bias towards people, however clearly the best option for us now is... You all act like it would matter to D-Rankers, which Race they play against. Most D-Rankers have deficits in more important parts of the game (game sense, macro, etc etc.) Why don't you see this whole league as a opportunity to get better in everything not just in a single part of the game to beat your next opponent in DRTL? If you are better all around, you should not be afraid of playing a racepicker or random. You know, you can scout on 7 supply, so you have enough time to choose a BO properly (even against random). Also why do you think racepickers only have 3 MU they play? Sure most of them only play 3, but a big part also plays more then 3 MU. F.e. I play PvZ, PvP, PvT, TvP, ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ (or Random, so if you count that as well RvT, RvZ and RvP, since this also plays out differently). Always trying to blame the others is not the right way. If you play a tournament, you also do not know who you will play, before the bracket is released. You can not always have the easy way of doing things. But I can agree that it seems to be unfair, that matchups are posted beforehand. It would be better to post them on the playdate on saturday. I would be perfectly fine with it and I do not understand why this was changed? This had to cause this drama about racepicker and randoms. Just start to handle things like in last season again and release the matchups just few minutes beforehand and there will not be any problems anymore.
We talked to Nikon about this.
A: matchups were supposed to be submitted last season as well, just due to bad organizing from most of the teams it was soon dropped.
B: having your name on the match list is a lot more motivating to turn up on the given date.
C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
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Rank:D+
ICCUP account:lelide98
Race:Terren
I want to join.. pick me up plz :D im good!
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lol lelide98 is C- or C , dont smurf please :D
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im D/D+ u can check my records
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lelide98 (and other people with 250+ apm), there is a C rank Teamleague!
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On March 03 2012 01:33 HeaDStrong wrote:
So my suggestion would be to force all race pickers either declare unambiguously all their desired match ups or pick a race while submitting the line up.
So racepicker will then be at a disadvantage, because they just shall choose a race? I see there is a discrepancy in the current system, but this is just because the matchup get posted way too early.
On March 03 2012 01:37 HeaDStrong wrote:
C: yeah I think matchup and player based preparation just goes better with the little competitiveness that is in DRTL. Just another fun dimension added to the league.
What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
If you fear that people will not come, because their name does not stand somewhere in some post. I think this is not the reason people come. And if someone promises to be there on time and still does not be there on playdate, you can kick him out of the league (if he does not have a good reason for it).
Keeping the matchups secret is much more profitable, since those people, who actually practice for their DRTL match, will get a much broader practice experience by just laddering and trying to be prepared for every matchup.
On March 03 2012 01:31 L_Master wrote:
Not in Pv (Random)Z. Even if you get there right away its still to late to forge FE, unless you got lucky and he did 12 hatch, if you scout him last...forget it.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe. And also I think this is the only matchup and BO, which is hinderd by playing against random. Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho. You can then also harrass or gassteal with your early scout.
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On March 03 2012 01:40 YaGaMi98 wrote:
Rank:D+
ICCUP account:lelide98
Race:Terren
I want to join.. pick me up plz :D im good!
hmmm on the side note if your allowed to play well sign you
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On March 03 2012 02:09 floladriblere wrote:
lelide98 (and other people with 250+ apm), there is a C rank Teamleague!
Man I've got over 250 apm in alot of games. Doesn't change that I am D+.
To take it to the extreme I remember playing some guy named theCORRE who was legit D- and had 450 APM in a 15 minute game.
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On March 02 2012 17:25 fold wrote:
Does any team need a protoss/TvP/ZvP coach? I'd be happy to help your team.
hey your coaching protoss only?? we could def use the help or maybe some one on one help since your a protoss coach ill give you me weaknesses if we get to talk and i know one of my team members will def need some help
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Just saying there is a CRTL to avoid smurfs in DRTL, dont take it personally.
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What is this fun dimension? You see there is just drama from each side. No fun at all knowing your opponent beforehand. I do not see how this could even matter in the aspect of fun.
I think for some people it's fun because they get to feel like a top player in a serious tournament by getting the opportunity to prepare for a specific MU and map. Which can be a pretty cool feeling getting to feel like a pro.
Ok maybe you cannot forge-fastexpand, but you know there are other BO's you can still use. F.e. you can go Speedzeal +1 Push and expand behind it. A zerg player facing a 1-base protoss cannot go and expand like he would do against forge-fe.
Absolutely.
The only thing I might complicate your argument with is that as a D player it's almost always best to learn one build and focus on improving it. When your thrown in to having to do a different build and almost play a different game it's not the most conductive to good practice and can feel really awkward in games if you haven't practiced it heavily.
Still there is a possibility for you to go scout on 5. Sure that is a small early disadvantage, but in the lower league it is not that big imho
It's 20% of your economy. That's pretty significant in my opinion but then again it isn't really necessary to do so whether or not I think it's significant is somewhat of a moot point.
On March 03 2012 02:21 floladriblere wrote:
Just saying there is a CRTL to avoid smurfs in DRTL, dont take it personally.
Oh, not at all my friend, no worries there. ^^
I think by this point that most people know about CRTL and I think the reason he was trying to play in DRTL was to be the "big fish in the pond" and opposed to just another random C-/C rank player in CRTL.
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EPT
