Q : Your in the finals in 2 years A : It's been too long I can't even remember..I have never been this nervous at a semi final match before..my games all worked out very well.
Q : All the three games were bunker rushes A : People might say I won too easily but they don't know how much effort was put into coming up with this strat. I worked all night for many days to find the exact timing where the zerg can't block the bunker rush even though he knows about it. Really, I prepared more than the past finals I have been in. I was extremely stressed. I was thinking of doing a different strat if my early marine/scv strat didn't work. But fortunately Yellow played without gathering units at the early stage so I just pressured him some more. What I wanted to do was make both of us poor and make it a control game. I am always confident in control.
Q : Did you have anything special in mind because you were facing Yellow? A : I think I know more about Yellow than anyone else. So during practice I thought to myself "this won't work against Yellow" or "Yellow will overcome this easily". So during practice I asked my partners to do specific strats. Mumyung helped out the most and so did Zerglee and many other semi-pros at my team. Also July from POS helped out a lot. With the scv/marine/bunker strat, I beat July 5 times in a row.
Q : Your final opponent is OOv. A : I always thought to myself "we will have to fight one day" but I never thought that would be the OGN finals. I really didn't want to meet a team member in the final but now its inevitable. Its very pressuring that there is not even a week left till the finals. Oov must have rested a lot but I won't have that time.
Q : Your training must be pressuring. A : We both know each other well so I think it will be a fight of brains. If it was long time ago I would leave the team house and practice other place but now I am the older one so..If both of us practice at the team house I can spy on Oov's strats (He laughs)
Q : Your final words on the final A : My goal in this OGN season was trying my best. And I think that is what brings me good results.
Learn to read between the lines ppl. "So during practice I asked my partners to do specific strats." " With the scv/marine/bunker strat, I beat July 5 times in a row."
July is well known for going pool first, not expanding.
On November 12 2004 08:08 Legionnaire wrote: Learn to read between the lines ppl. "So during practice I asked my partners to do specific strats." " With the scv/marine/bunker strat, I beat July 5 times in a row."
July is well known for going pool first, not expanding.
u seem pissed about boxer's cheesy rush, hahahaha...
well, heres a suggestion to u: work hard and fight ur way to semi-final and show everyone ur great skills so u can proudly say :" HEY, I DONZT FUKKING CHEESE~!!"
On November 12 2004 08:08 Legionnaire wrote: Learn to read between the lines ppl. "So during practice I asked my partners to do specific strats." " With the scv/marine/bunker strat, I beat July 5 times in a row."
July is well known for going pool first, not expanding.
Not lately, afaik. That strat wouldn't work against pool first anyway, 6 lings + drones are way enough.
On November 12 2004 08:08 Legionnaire wrote: Learn to read between the lines ppl. "So during practice I asked my partners to do specific strats." " With the scv/marine/bunker strat, I beat July 5 times in a row."
July is well known for going pool first, not expanding.
Not lately, afaik. That strat wouldn't work against pool first anyway, 6 lings + drones are way enough.
yeah but then an "off 1 base battle" would still be highly in favor of boxer and his godly bio micro, the zerg would be forced to go fast lurk coz with a late exp he would'nt be able to hold the first mm strike.
On November 12 2004 08:08 Legionnaire wrote: Learn to read between the lines ppl. "So during practice I asked my partners to do specific strats." " With the scv/marine/bunker strat, I beat July 5 times in a row."
July is well known for going pool first, not expanding.
Not lately, afaik. That strat wouldn't work against pool first anyway, 6 lings + drones are way enough.
yeah but then an "off 1 base battle" would still be highly in favor of boxer and his godly bio micro, the zerg would be forced to go fast lurk coz with a late exp he would'nt be able to hold the first mm strike.
Pool first does not mean 1 base. It's just pool before expand. ;o
TvZ is really bad, way too powerful, well MM is anyways, you only stand a chance if you lurk rush before the tank, or get mass guards with scourge to take out vessel Irradiate but even that is hard .
Frankly this strategy was very disapointing to me. I mean this IS an entertainment industry. That is why zz in 2v2's is disallowed, just not fun. BOXER WHY?
On November 12 2004 09:48 Addicted`To`Zerg wrote: i don't agree with boxer for that the final will be fight of brains(oov is creativless,but instopable)
What the fuck do you mean? "Creativless"? The fact that Iloveoov is a pure Brood War god, and easily can trust his skills without having to pull out some crazy strategies, doesn't make him "creativless". Stop coming with these stupid comments, please.
Anyway, thanks very much for the interview, it was very interesting to read about how much efforts i has put in in his strategies. Might change the moronic people who says Boxer is a coward and whatever. Just the fact that this site put up a poll asking "Is Boxer A Pansy?" is ridicilous :O
On November 12 2004 10:00 pinbaLL wrote: The fact that Iloveoov is a pure Brood War god, and easily can trust his skills without having to pull out some crazy strategies, doesn't make him "creativless".
the same can be said about yellow. in his interview yellow said he had a certain immunity to boxer strats. this is why he did not pool first. he believed he could stop boxers bunkers by fast expoing...and if he did he would have been ahead. but i suppose yellow did not train as hard with this early bunker timing on these maps. and if boxer trained as hard as he said, he already won the matches before it started. who did yellow train with? themarine? anyway i am sad....goo yellow forever.. =/
On November 12 2004 10:16 ahk-gosu wrote: can someone tell me how the crowd reacted in the third game when he did the same thing i didnt dl the vod yet some problem
They cheered. It wasn't the usual eardrum blowing banshee shriek they usually put up (I guess the only people cheering were the fan girls) though ;(
BoxeR was trully giving it his best. Like I said, the last few weeks he has been practicing 18+ hours a day. The fact he went 5-0 versus a zerg, who is known for their uber 9 pools (1 base ling/lurker micro) speaks volumes. He was totally focused and found a BO in which is very hard to stop. It just shows how smart he is. 3-0 O_O. Same BUILD. Same outcome. He DOMINATED YellOw. Damnit YellOw. Eri was right again >.<
On November 12 2004 09:55 pooper-scooper wrote: Frankly this strategy was very disapointing to me. I mean this IS an entertainment industry. That is why zz in 2v2's is disallowed, just not fun. BOXER WHY?
its a game before an entertainment industry. boxer was practicing to win not to please. its only an entertainment indutry because its a great game. the day that the game alters just because a sponsor says so is the day i give up on bw
Q : Your training must be pressuring. A : We both know each other well so I think it will be a fight of brains. If it was long time ago I would leave the team house and practice other place but now I am the older one so..If both of us practice at the team house I can spy on Oov's strats (He laughs)
hmm.. of course you put all effort to win games like this, no matter how fun/boring it is. But as audience I think this was extremely boring, was looking forward to see som nice VODs.
Anyway, its funny how people praise boxer for this strategy (they should), but i'm pretty sure if it was Silent_control who made this everybody would have said "this is the only way he can win or something like that... silent control sucks, he has to do such things etc etc"..
On November 12 2004 13:27 LogaiN wrote: hmm.. of course you put all effort to win games like this, no matter how fun/boring it is. But as audience I think this was extremely boring, was looking forward to see som nice VODs.
Anyway, its funny how people praise boxer for this strategy (they should), but i'm pretty sure if it was Silent_control who made this everybody would have said "this is the only way he can win or something like that... silent control sucks, he has to do such things etc etc"..
Right now, it feels like boxer never will face a hatchery first strat from any zerg the first 30 coming games in ogn^^ another popular z strat eliminated. next plz
On November 12 2004 09:49 kCiNNiCk wrote: TvZ is really bad, way too powerful, well MM is anyways, you only stand a chance if you lurk rush before the tank, or get mass guards with scourge to take out vessel Irradiate but even that is hard .
BM MU .
Oh please dont blame the tvz, just because boxer rox
On November 12 2004 09:49 kCiNNiCk wrote: TvZ is really bad, way too powerful, well MM is anyways, you only stand a chance if you lurk rush before the tank, or get mass guards with scourge to take out vessel Irradiate but even that is hard .
i understand everyone is disappointed. many of us, myself included, have waited weeks if not MONTHS for the terran emperor to mount his comeback. and when we're given the perfect opporunity to see his return in a classic yellow bo5, it turns out to be initially less than "classic." we had expected back and forth, see saw battles; games that would push the players to the limit; the use of awesome strategies and diverse unit mixes -- but what we got was a series of three games, short, and the same strategy. We're right to be disappointed after all our months of waiting, salivating.
I had not stayed up to watch the match. I had to shoot a short film today so i needed my sleep. Perhaps if I had stayed up like the rest of you all, I'd be disappointed. But since I didn't, I was privy to the game through live post reports in the forum free of the burden of overexpectation.
While reading the reports, I was completely enthralled. I think that's because I was forced to take a step back. Like any movie where expectations are too high, too often they are not met. What we wanted was a classic. That's what we got: a game of sc chess, condensed, told through a low unit micro battle.
How? Boxer forced yellow to play his type of micro-intense game. Yellow saw Boxer's hand , called it, but did not have the ability to win the battle. But whereas if Boxer failed in his first attack, the game would not be over, they'd both start back at one; but for Yellow's wager, he did not have enough collateral. A loss in his gamble meant a loss of the game. In this way, Boxer played smarter by taking the higher percentage bet. For the same bet with the same hands being repeated by both players -- the results speaks volumes on how risky Yellow played and relatively safe Boxer did.
Although Boxer is an incredibly strategic player, on the other hand I think I've developed a certain immunity to his strategies now. In the end, I think it's a fight of mental force
Although Boxer is an incredibly strategic player, on the other hand I think I've developed a certain immunity to his strategies now. In the end, I think it's a fight of mental force
On November 12 2004 15:22 shizuru wrote: How? Boxer forced yellow to play his type of micro-intense game. Yellow saw Boxer's hand , called it, but did not have the ability to win the battle. But whereas if Boxer failed in his first attack, the game would not be over, they'd both start back at one; but for Yellow's wager, he did not have enough collateral. A loss in his gamble meant a loss of the game. In this way, Boxer played smarter by taking the higher percentage bet. For the same bet with the same hands being repeated by both players -- the results speaks volumes on how risky Yellow played and relatively safe Boxer did.
genious analogy. games are all about assessing risk, unless its an open board game that can be systematically solved albeit through enormous amounts of computation, which sc is not.
I don't understand why Yellow didn't go 6pool or 7or 8..? It's yellow's falut. He lost by SAME strat 3 in a row and didn't do anything. Yellow is known as poor zerg but last night he was rich and lost. huh. Yellow! Boxer is a timing god vs zerg. As we see Boxer interview he wanted control fight but... poor yellow. The strat was just perfect for yellow's strat.
I don't understand why Yellow didn't go 6pool or 7or 8..? It's yellow's falut. He lost by SAME strat 3 in a row and didn't do anything.
maybe now yellow will have to steal themarine's nickname.
i haven't seen the vods, but i think even before they played, boxer knew his chances of winning were near 100%, based on yellow's style of play. given that yellow fast expos, boxer knew that, without micro mistakes, he would win for sure, as in 100%. assuming that he trained as much as he did, and that his zerg partners are as competent as yellow, he found it _completely_impossible_ for zerg to stop his build if boxer himself did not make mistakes. thus, all boxer had to rely on was his own concentration. the opponent is irrelevant. i'm not sure how the spawned map positions come into play and if boxer considered these while training, but i assume he did.
thus the two key assumptions are: yellow fast expos and boxer micros well. the probability of these two can (arguably) be set at higher than 50% each. furthermore, with these two assumptions in place and actually happening, boxer wins 100%. this is a strong statement - it is saying that if these two assumptions are true during a game, yellow will lose, even if they played an infinite number of games (sorry if "boxer micros well" is not well-defined). the universe is not random (at a macro level), everything happens for a reason. every loss comes with a set of reasons, and yellow had near-zero chance based on his mindset.
I don't understand why Yellow didn't go 6pool or 7or 8..? It's yellow's falut. He lost by SAME strat 3 in a row and didn't do anything.
maybe now yellow will have to steal themarine's nickname.
i haven't seen the vods, but i think even before they played, boxer knew his chances of winning were near 100%, based on yellow's style of play. given that yellow fast expos, boxer knew that, without micro mistakes, he would win for sure, as in 100%. assuming that he trained as much as he did, and that his zerg partners are as competent as yellow, he found it _completely_impossible_ for zerg to stop his build if boxer himself did not make mistakes. thus, all boxer had to rely on was his own concentration. the opponent is irrelevant. i'm not sure how the spawned map positions come into play and if boxer considered these while training, but i assume he did.
thus the two key assumptions are: yellow fast expos and boxer micros well. the probability of these two can (arguably) be set at higher than 50% each. furthermore, with these two assumptions in place and actually happening, boxer wins 100%. this is a strong statement - it is saying that if these two assumptions are true during a game, yellow will lose, even if they played an infinite number of games (sorry if "boxer micros well" is not well-defined). the universe is not random (at a macro level), everything happens for a reason. every loss comes with a set of reasons, and yellow had near-zero chance based on his mindset.
12-Hatch is a very safe build. There is no reason why Yellow couldn't have fought off the rush while still expanding. He just got outplayed, simple as that.
Opponent is never irrelavent. Yellow could've one if he...
I don't understand why Yellow didn't go 6pool or 7or 8..? It's yellow's falut. He lost by SAME strat 3 in a row and didn't do anything.
maybe now yellow will have to steal themarine's nickname.
i haven't seen the vods, but i think even before they played, boxer knew his chances of winning were near 100%, based on yellow's style of play. given that yellow fast expos, boxer knew that, without micro mistakes, he would win for sure, as in 100%. assuming that he trained as much as he did, and that his zerg partners are as competent as yellow, he found it _completely_impossible_ for zerg to stop his build if boxer himself did not make mistakes. thus, all boxer had to rely on was his own concentration. the opponent is irrelevant. i'm not sure how the spawned map positions come into play and if boxer considered these while training, but i assume he did.
thus the two key assumptions are: yellow fast expos and boxer micros well. the probability of these two can (arguably) be set at higher than 50% each. furthermore, with these two assumptions in place and actually happening, boxer wins 100%. this is a strong statement - it is saying that if these two assumptions are true during a game, yellow will lose, even if they played an infinite number of games (sorry if "boxer micros well" is not well-defined). the universe is not random (at a macro level), everything happens for a reason. every loss comes with a set of reasons, and yellow had near-zero chance based on his mindset.
12-Hatch is a very safe build. There is no reason why Yellow couldn't have fought off the rush while still expanding. He just got outplayed, simple as that.
Opponent is never irrelavent. Yellow could've one if he...
9 pooled? NO 4 pooled? NO
Played better? YES
Since Yellow was "outplayed" three times in a roll, I see no reason "12-hatch is a very safe build", unless you are much better than yellow, which I seriously doubt.
On November 12 2004 17:54 Painbringer wrote: or boxer much better than yellow
Exactly...
Since boxer doesn't play zerg, nobody knows. But yellow is the best zerg player on this planet. If it is not safe for him, then safe for nobody.Period.
Has Yellow been interviewed after the match? i really wont to know what he said about the semi !! this is just pure capitalisam - nobody cares about the loser, or his/her efforts.
Yellow saying terran units are stronger and that 'wtf' picture reminds me of tillermans rant/audio commentary about human fast expo needing to be nerfed vs undead. "what can a doo , What-can-uh-doo??!!!"
On November 12 2004 15:22 shizuru wrote: How? Boxer forced yellow to play his type of micro-intense game. Yellow saw Boxer's hand , called it, but did not have the ability to win the battle. But whereas if Boxer failed in his first attack, the game would not be over, they'd both start back at one; but for Yellow's wager, he did not have enough collateral. A loss in his gamble meant a loss of the game. In this way, Boxer played smarter by taking the higher percentage bet. For the same bet with the same hands being repeated by both players -- the results speaks volumes on how risky Yellow played and relatively safe Boxer did.
genious analogy. games are all about assessing risk, unless its an open board game that can be systematically solved albeit through enormous amounts of computation, which sc is not.
der's no cure for boxerphobia as of the moment... hehehe.. sori...
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://members.iinet.net.au/~shunt/lose_to_rush.jpg)
