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On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:01 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:59 Ecrilon wrote:
So because Stork is technically favored in a completely standard game he is supposed to be better? Because if there were no early tank snipes, no reaver harassment, no vulture harassment, no odd bio switches, no DT rushes, no bunker rushes, no economic cheese, and no oddities of any sort Stork would win against standard Terran mech->Vessel with standard Gates->Arbiter or Gates->Carrier, that makes him the better player? Are you simply telling me that his mechanics are better, or what? I'm telling you that without 1000 SKT coaching staff and Flash/Jaehoon to feed Fantasy instructions on how to win, Stork would win. So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy.
From the player's own mouth:
What kind of help did your coaching team give you?
▲ They helped a lot around the builds.
(T)iloveoov coach told me not to think about too many things at once, but instead, think only about a single build made around one of the opponent's possible build.
So, OOV's advice was don't think about anything. Just do that single build that counters your opponent's possible build.
Yeah, it's such an excuse... And OOV isn't the only coach. There's a whole coaching staff, and he locked up Jaehoon and Flash.
Fantasy was willing to sell his ass to a gang of convicts to win these Finals. Stork couldn't even be bothered looking for practice partners outside his house.
OSL Finals = Fantasy ridic preparation team > Stork's arrogance.
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest. edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
But he rarely delivered when it mattered tho ... that's his biggest problem ...
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On January 30 2011 16:09 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:02 patrick321 wrote:On January 30 2011 15:52 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:47 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:On January 30 2011 15:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:38 nayumi wrote:On January 30 2011 15:36 MarineHeroSamKhan wrote:
SONG BYUNG GOO!!!! I wonder how Fantasy even managed to beat stork 3-0 by being better? By doing blind hard counter builds that lose to anything other than Stork's predictable builds. Like I said so many times already, Stork lost the finals. Fantasy didn't win them. He just showed up. So Fantasy took 3 games off Stork last night and 1 loss today makes him someone who "only" showed up and Stork the obviously better player. Maybe if Stork would stop being so cocky and thinking that his opponents could not plan some counters, he would actually not "lose" any more finals. If you know anything about Stork as a player, you would know that's exactly what happened. Stork is an arrogant bastard and he drops final after final because he's convinced he's better than the opponent and all he needs to do is play solid no-mistake games. Hubris has always been his downfall. Stork was heavily favored vs Bisu when they met. Stork was heavily favored vs JD when they met. And Flash was an upstart when they met, although he did crush Stork in the GOM Star Invitational just before it. In that series too, Stork stubbornly kept going carriers even though Flash had proven once already in a bo5 that he had Stork's number. That's just the way Stork is. He's ridiculously bone-headed sometimes. When has stork ever been heavily favored against jaedong? They're about even and that's all its ever been. Of the games you listed, stork vs bisu was a close bo5 that went into an hour long 5th game where stork forgot range. The game vs jaedong was a bo5 that went to 5 games and 2 of jaedong's wins were 4 pools. I don't even see your point, though. How do these close losses make it look like stork is an arrogant bastard? There's no link at all between one and the other. You must not have been around for the series vs JD. JD was a relative unknown back then with a horrendous ZvP winrate. Stork was the heavy favorite. In almost every OSL Finals stork has been in, he's been the favorite. And he's lost because of it. Please learn some SC history. Close losses to Bisu and JD were huge upsets when they happened.
I was around, i just have a poor memory. Thanks to you and the others for explaining.
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest. edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
For dealing with Flash haters when he goes into god-mode? 
Edit: Or with Shine-haters every time he hydrabusts Bisu?
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest. edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
It's important to note what the purpose of this entire discussion is.
If we're talking about who has better raw skill, then perhaps Stork beats Fantasy out. I can't really say for sure because I honestly wouldn't know where to start deciding on this one.
On the other hand, if we're talking about results, which is obviously more important at face value, then Fantasy still has his time to come. It wouldn't be fair to compare Stork and Fantasy, and even so, Fantasy has not done badly since his emergence on the scene.
I really don't get why there are so many arguments about who is "better" or whatever. Or why there needs to be so much belittling. When it comes down to it, it's only fair to criticize the player who loses. Also, it's incredibly selfish to get angry and call out people who are amazed at the skills of the winner, and also to insult the winner.
Please... just take a step back and look at what you've typed before you post.
EDIT: I just realized, if these topics were to be discussed in person, NO ONE would act as unreasonably as they have in these threads. And if they did, they would be seen as petty whiners that no one would like. It's disgusting what anonymity does to a person.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2011 16:09 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:02 patrick321 wrote:On January 30 2011 15:52 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:47 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:On January 30 2011 15:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:38 nayumi wrote:On January 30 2011 15:36 MarineHeroSamKhan wrote:
SONG BYUNG GOO!!!! I wonder how Fantasy even managed to beat stork 3-0 by being better? By doing blind hard counter builds that lose to anything other than Stork's predictable builds. Like I said so many times already, Stork lost the finals. Fantasy didn't win them. He just showed up. So Fantasy took 3 games off Stork last night and 1 loss today makes him someone who "only" showed up and Stork the obviously better player. Maybe if Stork would stop being so cocky and thinking that his opponents could not plan some counters, he would actually not "lose" any more finals. If you know anything about Stork as a player, you would know that's exactly what happened. Stork is an arrogant bastard and he drops final after final because he's convinced he's better than the opponent and all he needs to do is play solid no-mistake games. Hubris has always been his downfall. Stork was heavily favored vs Bisu when they met. Stork was heavily favored vs JD when they met. And Flash was an upstart when they met, although he did crush Stork in the GOM Star Invitational just before it. In that series too, Stork stubbornly kept going carriers even though Flash had proven once already in a bo5 that he had Stork's number. That's just the way Stork is. He's ridiculously bone-headed sometimes. When has stork ever been heavily favored against jaedong? They're about even and that's all its ever been. Of the games you listed, stork vs bisu was a close bo5 that went into an hour long 5th game where stork forgot range. The game vs jaedong was a bo5 that went to 5 games and 2 of jaedong's wins were 4 pools. I don't even see your point, though. How do these close losses make it look like stork is an arrogant bastard? There's no link at all between one and the other. You must not have been around for the series vs JD. JD was a relative unknown back then with a horrendous ZvP winrate. Stork was the heavy favorite. In almost every OSL Finals stork has been in, he's been the favorite. And he's lost because of it. Please learn some SC history. Close losses to Bisu and JD were huge upsets when they happened.
patrick321
Joined TL.net Tuesday, 24th of August 2004
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest. edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
That's TVZ. Watch some more of Fantasy vs Zerg.
Anyway Stork should have really won the OSL but meh.
He lost, it's over. Get over yourself fanboys. Saying anything else to take belittle Fantasy's is just excuses. Fantasy outplayed him. If it's anyone you should be angry with it's Stork. He had what 3 weeks to practice PVT? and what did he come up with? Reaver harass into carrier on maps that aren't suited for it and shouldn't go for it base on scouting info. And when on maps that should have done reaver harass he didn't. GO Write angry message to STORK. Stork fails you guys. DOn't take it out on Fantasy.
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Just an observation about tonight's games, and SWL tend in general:
+ Show Spoiler [other match too] +
Tonight's number of games: 14
P's in non-mirrors: 6-1
Tonight's number of PvPs: 7
Tonight's wins by non-Ps: 2
Games involving no Ps: 1
So much protoss. So much protoss that you can only beat protoss with other protoss LoL
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On January 30 2011 16:16 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:On January 30 2011 16:01 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:59 Ecrilon wrote:
So because Stork is technically favored in a completely standard game he is supposed to be better? Because if there were no early tank snipes, no reaver harassment, no vulture harassment, no odd bio switches, no DT rushes, no bunker rushes, no economic cheese, and no oddities of any sort Stork would win against standard Terran mech->Vessel with standard Gates->Arbiter or Gates->Carrier, that makes him the better player? Are you simply telling me that his mechanics are better, or what? I'm telling you that without 1000 SKT coaching staff and Flash/Jaehoon to feed Fantasy instructions on how to win, Stork would win. So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. From the player's own mouth: What kind of help did your coaching team give you? ▲ They helped a lot around the builds. (T)iloveoov coach told me not to think about too many things at once, but instead, think only about a single build made around one of the opponent's possible build. So, OOV's advice was don't think about anything. Just do that single build that counters your opponent's possible build. Yeah, it's such an excuse... And OOV isn't the only coach. There's a whole coaching staff, and he locked up Jaehoon and Flash. Fantasy was willing to sell his ass to a gang of convicts to win these Finals. Stork couldn't even be bothered looking for practice partners outside his house. OSL Finals = Fantasy ridic preparation team > Stork's arrogance.
So Fantasy's coaching staff prepares his builds for him while Stork's only tells him how to better his mechanics?
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Khan are doing really well at the moment, for the first time in a while it seems we have some semblance of "depth". Ofc depth doesnt help you much in WL, but we have Stork for that
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On January 30 2011 15:36 HawaiianPig wrote:That goliath opening really gimps your tank count. Seems like it pretty much only works when you're up against Reavers (into carriers lmao, wtf stork)/ Blindly doing it here didn't quite pay off, gg Fantasy. Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
The OSL Finals were a sham. It's as simple as SKT1 coaching staff >>>> Khan coaching staff. Without 1000 strategists to hold his hand, Fanta is just a mediocre terran. Crap like this is utterly ignorant. Fantasy's builds last night were prepped to snipe Stork's expected reaver play. Fantasy tried one of the builds (the game 1 build) from last night expecting more of the same, and stork mixed it up... he basically TRIPLE EXPANDED... Fantasy would have been better off doing a 5fact push or something (like he did in game 2).
Fanta seemed alright until he let a lot of tanks get caught unsieged by a bunch of goons. He just wasn't as sharp today as yesterday.
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Also Fantasy screwed up by running unsieged tanks into stork's army and we know that it's not something he does every game. It's funny how when Stork plays below his own standard the games don't "count" as an indicator of his skill level, but when Fantasy does the same he is obviously the inferior player on a consistent basis.
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On January 30 2011 16:21 ISighZ wrote:
He lost, it's over. Get over yourself fanboys. Saying anything else to take belittle Fantasy's is just excuses. Fantasy outplayed him. If it's anyone you should be angry with it's Stork. He had what 3 weeks to practice PVT? and what did he come up with? Reaver harass into carrier on maps that aren't suited for it and shouldn't go for it base on scouting info. And when on maps that should have done reaver harass he didn't. GO Write angry message to STORK. Stork fails you guys. DOn't take it out on Fantasy.
Guys, guys, stop belittling Fantasy. It's Stork that fails!
Nice post.
I can't speak for other rabid KHAN fans, but as a Stork fan and Fantasy antifan long before this series, I can tell you I'm not on an anti-Fantasy campaign here. It's the particularly vitriolic T1 FANS misrepresenting Fantasy's abilities that gets my goat. Some hyperbole is fun, but witnessing the posts of people who only like Fantasy because he's on the team that has Bisu on it and they used to play Protoss back in 2008 before giving up on iccup... it must be responded to! It must!
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
SKT fans vs Stork fans.
So good.
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest. edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
Oh yeah, he can play cellphone games and win in PL. But while Fantasy works his ass off in the finals, he can do nothing but play more cellphone games. That doesn't help him at all.
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Fantasy to practice partners: Play exactly like Stork and I will try to beat you.
Stork to practice partners: Play terran and I will beat you.
This is why Fantasy won the OSL.
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest.
Fantasy has to have something...otherwise Canata would have succeeded.
Canata's signature was losing after gaining an advantage, something Fantasy does occasionally but not like Canata did. Fantasy is still doing well in WL - do you think he has to prepare *everything*? Whether you like it or not he has the fundamentals to perform.
What Fantasy is not is Flash, who probably has the best overall game sense in the world, takes all sorts of calculated risks and adapts his play very very well. But really, who else has that? No other Terran does, that's for sure. JD is great at adapting but still loses games to overaggression.
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On January 30 2011 16:30 pylonsalad wrote:
Fantasy to practice partners: Play exactly like Stork and I will try to beat you.
Stork to practice partners: Play terrancellphone games and I will beat you.
This is why Fantasy won the OSL.
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I wonder how much of this "Stork can play cell phone games all night and still deliver" is actually true. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he practiced as much as he could this season.
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On January 30 2011 16:16 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:On January 30 2011 16:01 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:59 Ecrilon wrote:
So because Stork is technically favored in a completely standard game he is supposed to be better? Because if there were no early tank snipes, no reaver harassment, no vulture harassment, no odd bio switches, no DT rushes, no bunker rushes, no economic cheese, and no oddities of any sort Stork would win against standard Terran mech->Vessel with standard Gates->Arbiter or Gates->Carrier, that makes him the better player? Are you simply telling me that his mechanics are better, or what? I'm telling you that without 1000 SKT coaching staff and Flash/Jaehoon to feed Fantasy instructions on how to win, Stork would win. So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. From the player's own mouth: What kind of help did your coaching team give you? ▲ They helped a lot around the builds. (T)iloveoov coach told me not to think about too many things at once, but instead, think only about a single build made around one of the opponent's possible build. So, OOV's advice was don't think about anything. Just do that single build that counters your opponent's possible build. Yeah, it's such an excuse... And OOV isn't the only coach. There's a whole coaching staff, and he locked up Jaehoon and Flash. Fantasy was willing to sell his ass to a gang of convicts to win these Finals. Stork couldn't even be bothered looking for practice partners outside his house. OSL Finals = Fantasy ridic preparation team > Stork's arrogance.
Lol I'm gonna let loose a little on this one, so bear with me.
Suck on it. Yea, SUCK ON IT.
Sorry, your favorite little player Stork lost yesterday. Oh wait, I really don't care about that because I don't focus on the loser of the match. I focus on the only player that I care about, which is Fantasy. And guess what? He won yesterday, that's enough to make me happy, and not that Stork lost.
But apparently you can't deal with that.
If you're not happy, then you don't want anyone else to be happy either.
And not only that, you feel the need to take your disappointment and sadness and make that into hatred towards Fantasy and his fans. Is that not true? One shouldn't feel angry that another player won, one should only feel disappointment because his favorite player lost.
Only those who are too weak to deal with those emotions feels to need to lash out at others, acting like an immature child. I'm sorry, but the world is not "fair". And by fair I mean "does not go the way you want everything to go" because nothing about yesterday's results were unfair.
Once again I'm going to say, if anything, criticize Stork for letting you down. Stop tearing down others to fulfill your own inability to deal when things don't go your way.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
