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On January 30 2011 15:52 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:47 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:On January 30 2011 15:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:38 nayumi wrote:On January 30 2011 15:36 MarineHeroSamKhan wrote:
SONG BYUNG GOO!!!! I wonder how Fantasy even managed to beat stork 3-0 by being better? By doing blind hard counter builds that lose to anything other than Stork's predictable builds. Like I said so many times already, Stork lost the finals. Fantasy didn't win them. He just showed up. So Fantasy took 3 games off Stork last night and 1 loss today makes him someone who "only" showed up and Stork the obviously better player. Maybe if Stork would stop being so cocky and thinking that his opponents could not plan some counters, he would actually not "lose" any more finals. If you know anything about Stork as a player, you would know that's exactly what happened. Stork is an arrogant bastard and he drops final after final because he's convinced he's better than the opponent and all he needs to do is play solid no-mistake games. Hubris has always been his downfall. Stork was heavily favored vs Bisu when they met. Stork was heavily favored vs JD when they met. And Flash was an upstart when they met, although he did crush Stork in the GOM Star Invitational just before it. In that series too, Stork stubbornly kept going carriers even though Flash had proven once already in a bo5 that he had Stork's number. That's just the way Stork is. He's ridiculously bone-headed sometimes.
When has stork ever been heavily favored against jaedong? They're about even and that's all its ever been.
Of the games you listed, stork vs bisu was a close bo5 that went into an hour long 5th game where stork forgot range. The game vs jaedong was a bo5 that went to 5 games and 2 of jaedong's wins were 4 pools. I don't even see your point, though. How do these close losses make it look like stork is an arrogant bastard? There's no link at all between one and the other.
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On January 30 2011 15:50 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:49 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On January 30 2011 15:43 stork4ever wrote:
Stork failed OSL on purpose to confuse SKT and Fantasy so that his team can win in PL.....what sacrifice....what vision This is my favorite post of any LR thread ever HAHA! Nice catch. :D Stork is such a noble hero!
hahahaha, couldn't stop laughing when i read that line
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On January 30 2011 15:43 stork4ever wrote:
Stork failed OSL on purpose to confuse SKT and Fantasy so that his team can win in PL.....what sacrifice....what vision
Stork is a baneling? A scourge?
Nevertheless, even a single baneling or scourge can turn the tide. Glad to see him win so convincingly.
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On January 30 2011 15:48 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:40 structuralinertia wrote:
here's the deal. Fanta's TvP is awesome. Stork's PvT is awesome. Fanta played better last night, stork played better today. Simple as that methinks It's not. Fanta's TvP is simply vulture harass. Beyond that, he's nothing special. Stork is a PvT god. Last night, Fanta got 2 build order wins and then a dismantling in game 3 that looked like Stork never even practiced vs dropship play.
Do you ever fucking stop, man?
Or are we trying to push for 50 pages? If so, I can assist!
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There is a feel fantasy's tvp strength is vulture harrass and tactics, afraid of large engagements.. or does he play this way against stork only? Playing goon/zeal, making him lose vultures for nothing and cannon up expo on a normal map is the best way to beat him.
The first engagement today exists because fantasy's vulture somewhere trying to harrass and not guarding tanks.
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10387 Posts
On January 30 2011 15:59 Ecrilon wrote:
So because Stork is technically favored in a completely standard game he is supposed to be better? Because if there were no early tank snipes, no reaver harassment, no vulture harassment, no odd bio switches, no DT rushes, no bunker rushes, no economic cheese, and no oddities of any sort Stork would win against standard Terran mech->Vessel with standard Gates->Arbiter or Gates->Carrier, that makes him the better player? Are you simply telling me that his mechanics are better, or what?
Fantasy attempted a hasty push across the center, and Stork punished him HARD for it (got like 5 tanks?) From there, Stork played relatively safe w/ 2-3 cannons per base, and Fantasy's harassment didn't really pay off for itself, which just added on Fantasy's disadvantage. The successful attack at the third w/ the piimp storms was pretty much the final nail in the coffin.
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On January 30 2011 16:01 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:59 Ecrilon wrote:
So because Stork is technically favored in a completely standard game he is supposed to be better? Because if there were no early tank snipes, no reaver harassment, no vulture harassment, no odd bio switches, no DT rushes, no bunker rushes, no economic cheese, and no oddities of any sort Stork would win against standard Terran mech->Vessel with standard Gates->Arbiter or Gates->Carrier, that makes him the better player? Are you simply telling me that his mechanics are better, or what? I'm telling you that without 1000 SKT coaching staff and Flash/Jaehoon to feed Fantasy instructions on how to win, Stork would win.
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy.
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On January 30 2011 16:03 Baddieko wrote:
There is a feel fantasy's tvp strength is vulture harrass and tactics, afraid of large engagements.. or does he play this way against stork only? Playing goon/zeal, making him lose vultures for nothing and cannon up expo on a normal map is the best way to beat him.
The first engagement today exists because fantasy's vulture somewhere trying to harrass and not guarding tanks.
More like Fantasy was high and A-moved his tanks without vulture support, down the hill, only to realize "oh shit thats right his dragoons are still here."
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On January 30 2011 16:03 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:48 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:40 structuralinertia wrote:
here's the deal. Fanta's TvP is awesome. Stork's PvT is awesome. Fanta played better last night, stork played better today. Simple as that methinks It's not. Fanta's TvP is simply vulture harass. Beyond that, he's nothing special. Stork is a PvT god. Last night, Fanta got 2 build order wins and then a dismantling in game 3 that looked like Stork never even practiced vs dropship play. Do you ever fucking stop, man? Or are we trying to push for 50 pages? If so, I can assist!
Bisu's PvZ was just DT/Sair. Without one of these units he was nothing special.
FlaSh's TvP was nothing special without the Turret.
NaDa was nothing special without his APM.
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Sheesh, the arguments that take place in BW LR threads lately after the games end are so awful to read.
On January 30 2011 15:55 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:48 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:40 structuralinertia wrote:
here's the deal. Fanta's TvP is awesome. Stork's PvT is awesome. Fanta played better last night, stork played better today. Simple as that methinks It's not. Fanta's TvP is simply vulture harass. Beyond that, he's nothing special. Stork is a PvT god. Last night, Fanta got 2 build order wins and then a dismantling in game 3 that looked like Stork never even practiced vs dropship play. Today, Stork made a counter to Fantasy's retarded blind anti-shuttle build and handily crushed him. It showed simply that Stork is the superior player and should have had the balls to switch up his play rather than rely on the same stupid build just because it won him games. It's a classic case of Stork arrogance thinking he's so far superior that he doesn't need to innovate to win. It's why he's a constant silver medalist. If you look at Stork's thought process during his Incruit OSL run, he was totally different. He explicitly stated that he was going to switch things up and try to play mind games and surprise his opponent because those are essential ingredients to winning a bo5. For some inexplicable reason, he forgot that yesterday. Fantasy blind countered Stork's predictability, Stork is the more superior player. Stork blind countered Fantasy's predictability, Stork is the more superior player. I think you're right.
But you summed up his argument pretty well. Heh.
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Stork fans can love Stork as much as they want, but they don't have to shit on Fantasy and say he sucks. Seriously, stop the hating. Both players are good and have proven themselves before.
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On January 30 2011 16:02 patrick321 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:52 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:47 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:On January 30 2011 15:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:38 nayumi wrote:On January 30 2011 15:36 MarineHeroSamKhan wrote:
SONG BYUNG GOO!!!! I wonder how Fantasy even managed to beat stork 3-0 by being better? By doing blind hard counter builds that lose to anything other than Stork's predictable builds. Like I said so many times already, Stork lost the finals. Fantasy didn't win them. He just showed up. So Fantasy took 3 games off Stork last night and 1 loss today makes him someone who "only" showed up and Stork the obviously better player. Maybe if Stork would stop being so cocky and thinking that his opponents could not plan some counters, he would actually not "lose" any more finals. If you know anything about Stork as a player, you would know that's exactly what happened. Stork is an arrogant bastard and he drops final after final because he's convinced he's better than the opponent and all he needs to do is play solid no-mistake games. Hubris has always been his downfall. Stork was heavily favored vs Bisu when they met. Stork was heavily favored vs JD when they met. And Flash was an upstart when they met, although he did crush Stork in the GOM Star Invitational just before it. In that series too, Stork stubbornly kept going carriers even though Flash had proven once already in a bo5 that he had Stork's number. That's just the way Stork is. He's ridiculously bone-headed sometimes. When has stork ever been heavily favored against jaedong? They're about even and that's all its ever been. Of the games you listed, stork vs bisu was a close bo5 that went into an hour long 5th game where stork forgot range. The game vs jaedong was a bo5 that went to 5 games and 2 of jaedong's wins were 4 pools. I don't even see your point, though. How do these close losses make it look like stork is an arrogant bastard? There's no link at all between one and the other.
Lol, that final vs JD went to game 4. We're talking about the OSL Finals way back when JD won his first starleague.
And it's true, Stork apparently didn't even practice for that Final and got stomped as a result.
Stork really does seem like a cocky player though, considering his interviews and whatnot. It only hit me after yesterday's finals when I was thinking about him. Makes me kinda dislike him, but no one can deny that he's still a solid player that all protoss enthusiasts should cheer for.
On January 30 2011 16:05 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:59 Ecrilon wrote:
So because Stork is technically favored in a completely standard game he is supposed to be better? Because if there were no early tank snipes, no reaver harassment, no vulture harassment, no odd bio switches, no DT rushes, no bunker rushes, no economic cheese, and no oddities of any sort Stork would win against standard Terran mech->Vessel with standard Gates->Arbiter or Gates->Carrier, that makes him the better player? Are you simply telling me that his mechanics are better, or what? Fantasy attempted a hasty push across the center, and Stork punished him HARD for it (got like 5 tanks?) From there, Stork played relatively safe w/ 2-3 cannons per base, and Fantasy's harassment didn't really pay off for itself, which just added on Fantasy's disadvantage. The successful attack at the third w/ the piimp storms was pretty much the final nail in the coffin.
Not really punished hard, but a blunder on Fantasy's part. His tanks were in front of his vultures and were completely exposed to dragoon fire. I suppose that can be considered being punished for putting together a hasty push (emphasis on hasty) but I think Fantasy could have gotten across the map with no tank losses if he had just baby-sat his army a little more.
StorkHwaiting really needs to stop posting lol.
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The game vs jaedong was a bo5 that went to 5 games and 2 of jaedong's wins were 4 pools
there is so much wrong with this
starting with how he wasn't talking about the semifinals, but about the OSL finals when JD royal roaded
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The result for set 7 doesn't surprise me. -_- Just my luck.
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10387 Posts
On January 30 2011 16:06 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:03 MountainDewJunkie wrote:On January 30 2011 15:48 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:40 structuralinertia wrote:
here's the deal. Fanta's TvP is awesome. Stork's PvT is awesome. Fanta played better last night, stork played better today. Simple as that methinks It's not. Fanta's TvP is simply vulture harass. Beyond that, he's nothing special. Stork is a PvT god. Last night, Fanta got 2 build order wins and then a dismantling in game 3 that looked like Stork never even practiced vs dropship play. Do you ever fucking stop, man? Or are we trying to push for 50 pages? If so, I can assist! Bisu's PvZ was just DT/Sair. Without one of these units he was nothing special.
Flash is nothing without Supply Depot walls, mass turrets and Tanks!
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Besides, we can put fantasy vs stork posts to rest when we embark on our 4-Zerg MSL semifinal! Get ready, ZvZ haters! Hydra vs Jaedong gogogo
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United States5582 Posts
*Sigh* Look what the OSL has done... Deteriorating both Stork and Fantasy fanboys and bringing themselves down to petty arguments over who's better than who.
Both got their revenge. That's that. Congratulations to both Stork and Fantasy - they both played exceptionally well.
And thanks to all the streamers tonight! You guys are heroes~ <3
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On January 30 2011 16:02 patrick321 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 15:52 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:47 JustQuitWarcraftIII wrote:On January 30 2011 15:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 30 2011 15:38 nayumi wrote:On January 30 2011 15:36 MarineHeroSamKhan wrote:
SONG BYUNG GOO!!!! I wonder how Fantasy even managed to beat stork 3-0 by being better? By doing blind hard counter builds that lose to anything other than Stork's predictable builds. Like I said so many times already, Stork lost the finals. Fantasy didn't win them. He just showed up. So Fantasy took 3 games off Stork last night and 1 loss today makes him someone who "only" showed up and Stork the obviously better player. Maybe if Stork would stop being so cocky and thinking that his opponents could not plan some counters, he would actually not "lose" any more finals. If you know anything about Stork as a player, you would know that's exactly what happened. Stork is an arrogant bastard and he drops final after final because he's convinced he's better than the opponent and all he needs to do is play solid no-mistake games. Hubris has always been his downfall. Stork was heavily favored vs Bisu when they met. Stork was heavily favored vs JD when they met. And Flash was an upstart when they met, although he did crush Stork in the GOM Star Invitational just before it. In that series too, Stork stubbornly kept going carriers even though Flash had proven once already in a bo5 that he had Stork's number. That's just the way Stork is. He's ridiculously bone-headed sometimes. When has stork ever been heavily favored against jaedong? They're about even and that's all its ever been. Of the games you listed, stork vs bisu was a close bo5 that went into an hour long 5th game where stork forgot range. The game vs jaedong was a bo5 that went to 5 games and 2 of jaedong's wins were 4 pools. I don't even see your point, though. How do these close losses make it look like stork is an arrogant bastard? There's no link at all between one and the other.
You must not have been around for the series vs JD. JD was a relative unknown back then with a horrendous ZvP winrate. Stork was the heavy favorite. In almost every OSL Finals stork has been in, he's been the favorite. And he's lost because of it. Please learn some SC history. Close losses to Bisu and JD were huge upsets when they happened.
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On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy.
It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest.
edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
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On January 30 2011 16:10 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 16:06 Ecrilon wrote:
So tired of this excuse. So tired of it. Prove it. Seriously, prove it. Prove that Fantasy didn't develop and these builds himself. Prove that Stork never takes advice about builds from anyone. Prove that oov figured out all the timings, tricks and subtleties that Fantasy must have practiced in these builds before he fed them, as you say, to Fantasy. It is a lame excuse, but what you can't deny is that Stork can play cellphone games all night and still deliver, whereas Fantasy needs to develop builds and have them work to get anywhere. His play crumbles when thrown off guard, as we all saw in that famous Fantasy vs Action failfest. edit: What are LR threads for if not battling with T1 fans?
I don't know, maybe a place for LRing? What is WITH the hatred for T1 and T1 fans? I for one am tired of it. I have never once disparaged the skill of any player (other than Shine, but this is due to admittedly irrational hatred), and have consistently given credit for wins where the credit is due. Apparently StorkHwaiting is unable or unwilling to extend that same courtesy.
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