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[OSL] Ro16 Day 1 - Page 46

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-10 05:08:26
December 10 2010 05:07 GMT
#901
problem with flash is that he has no showmanship .. and spectator sports, showmanship is a real plus for fans = love/like

thats why T1 pros are loved .. because they are entertainers/players ..

along with other people like stork, sea, leta, and the rare times JD+Lomo combo ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-10 05:54:17
December 10 2010 05:50 GMT
#902
On December 10 2010 13:57 radialis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2010 07:43 Fenrax wrote:
The problem with M&M vs. Protoss is that it is an all-in build by definition. They are relatively cost effective vs. Goons and Zealots, and especially if T catches P offguard it will steal a game. But you can't go late game, not even mid game, with M&Ms because they get destroyed by High Templars or Reavers. And playing vs. Arbiters with M&M is totally unacceptable. That also means that you don't even need to bother getting upgrades for your M&Ms and that you don't have the time, money or armory to get upgrades for your Mech units. And you also have Barracks instead of Factories so you can't transition into something.
So M&M is like on every other map an all-in build that will work if everything goes as expected and fails if it gets scouted or if the Protoss chooses a different strategy.

For the map: I don't think that Aztec is as extremely Protoss favored as the recent results suggest. It is no Central Plains. The long PvT victory streak is imo a mix of a good (but not unfairly good) map for Protoss and a normal statistical deviation. I think Flash had the right strategy going into the game and he came close to winning but Kal's early advantage was just too much to overcome. It is not like Kal is a nobody, he was always playing on one level with Flash (despite usually losing) and this time he had the lead and lead it to victory.

Could you hook us up with a few M&M vods vs protoss out of interest?

+ Show Spoiler [success] +

+ Show Spoiler [failure] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeHKUynz-qI&feature=player_embedded
Oddly enough, Best's next terran opponent used the exact same build, and it failed again.



On December 10 2010 14:07 aimaimaim wrote:
problem with flash is that he has no showmanship .. and spectator sports, showmanship is a real plus for fans = love/like

thats why T1 pros are loved .. because they are entertainers/players ..

along with other people like stork, sea, leta, and the rare times JD+Lomo combo ..

To be honest, the biggest thing I noticed about all my favorite players is that when they win, they inspire me to want to play their race. Flash never did this, neither did players like free or many of the mid-level zergs. Baby and Fantasy are my favorites as far as terran goes.
T1 is pretty good about that, although they sure do get quite a bit of hate.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
December 10 2010 05:52 GMT
#903
holy shit just watched the modesty game
manner
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
December 10 2010 06:54 GMT
#904
On December 10 2010 14:50 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2010 13:57 radialis wrote:
On December 10 2010 07:43 Fenrax wrote:
The problem with M&M vs. Protoss is that it is an all-in build by definition. They are relatively cost effective vs. Goons and Zealots, and especially if T catches P offguard it will steal a game. But you can't go late game, not even mid game, with M&Ms because they get destroyed by High Templars or Reavers. And playing vs. Arbiters with M&M is totally unacceptable. That also means that you don't even need to bother getting upgrades for your M&Ms and that you don't have the time, money or armory to get upgrades for your Mech units. And you also have Barracks instead of Factories so you can't transition into something.
So M&M is like on every other map an all-in build that will work if everything goes as expected and fails if it gets scouted or if the Protoss chooses a different strategy.

For the map: I don't think that Aztec is as extremely Protoss favored as the recent results suggest. It is no Central Plains. The long PvT victory streak is imo a mix of a good (but not unfairly good) map for Protoss and a normal statistical deviation. I think Flash had the right strategy going into the game and he came close to winning but Kal's early advantage was just too much to overcome. It is not like Kal is a nobody, he was always playing on one level with Flash (despite usually losing) and this time he had the lead and lead it to victory.

Could you hook us up with a few M&M vods vs protoss out of interest?

+ Show Spoiler [success] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJh21hhbqI&feature=player_embedded

+ Show Spoiler [failure] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeHKUynz-qI&feature=player_embedded
Oddly enough, Best's next terran opponent used the exact same build, and it failed again.



Show nested quote +
On December 10 2010 14:07 aimaimaim wrote:
problem with flash is that he has no showmanship .. and spectator sports, showmanship is a real plus for fans = love/like

thats why T1 pros are loved .. because they are entertainers/players ..

along with other people like stork, sea, leta, and the rare times JD+Lomo combo ..

To be honest, the biggest thing I noticed about all my favorite players is that when they win, they inspire me to want to play their race. Flash never did this, neither did players like free or many of the mid-level zergs. Baby and Fantasy are my favorites as far as terran goes.
T1 is pretty good about that, although they sure do get quite a bit of hate.

I miss go.go and hwasin the most =[
_Quasar_
Profile Joined October 2010
Russian Federation4405 Posts
December 10 2010 09:23 GMT
#905
On December 10 2010 07:53 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2010 07:43 Fenrax wrote:
The problem with M&M vs. Protoss is that it is an all-in build by definition. They are relatively cost effective vs. Goons and Zealots, and especially if T catches P offguard it will steal a game. But you can't go late game, not even mid game, with M&Ms because they get destroyed by High Templars or Reavers. And playing vs. Arbiters with M&M is totally unacceptable. That also means that you don't even need to bother getting upgrades for your M&Ms and that you don't have the time, money or armory to get upgrades for your Mech units. And you also have Barracks instead of Factories so you can't transition into something.
So M&M is like on every other map an all-in build that will work if everything goes as expected and fails if it gets scouted or if the Protoss chooses a different strategy.

For the map: I don't think that Aztec is as extremely Protoss favored as the recent results suggest. It is no Central Plains. The long PvT victory streak is imo a mix of a good (but not unfairly good) map for Protoss and a normal statistical deviation. I think Flash had the right strategy going into the game and he came close to winning but Kal's early advantage was just too much to overcome. It is not like Kal is a nobody, he was always playing on one level with Flash (despite usually losing) and this time he had the lead and lead it to victory.


I wonder if you can go MnMs against Protoss and then switch into 3 Port Wraith build timed right to snipe HTs or kill the shuttle bringing the reavers. That would be the pimpest build ever!

Yeah! Act like Zerg, i said i said :D

m&m -> vulture -> wraith+optic flare -> vessel EMP... LOL that would be really TOO entertaining. :D And mobility would really win it. ^_^ But you have really to be a micro maniac to do it. But theoretically this strat has no holes - it can deal with really any protoss play including carriers and arbiters (i mean, wraith > carrier).)))
For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan.
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
December 10 2010 09:42 GMT
#906
It's only been 2 losses and Flash starts getting discredited. It's no use comparing Flash's style of play with JD or any other S-class player of a different race. Given the demands on current Terran players, you can't afford to be too showy if you want to win multiple gold. Flash doesn't have the personality of Leta/Sea or the looks of Bisu/Jaedong but he's inspiring because when he owns, he does so in such comprehensive fashion. One thing I've always admired about Flash is that he's constantly seeking new ways to perfect his game. I'm not even a Flash fan but I can say that he's definitely inspired me.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
December 10 2010 10:16 GMT
#907
It's really basically that if someone suddenly loses, all the people that don't like him become more vocal. I don't think that people change their minds too often.
Yes, I can admire Flash's success through continued innovation. But 'inspiring' is the last word that comes to mind when describing Flash games.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Yggdrasil Leaf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
221 Posts
December 10 2010 12:31 GMT
#908
On December 10 2010 19:16 Lightwip wrote:
It's really basically that if someone suddenly loses, all the people that don't like him become more vocal. I don't think that people change their minds too often.
Yes, I can admire Flash's success through continued innovation. But 'inspiring' is the last word that comes to mind when describing Flash games
.

and so you reveal your lack of personality and taste.
"A person hears only what they understand" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 10 2010 12:37 GMT
#909
Flash I can't be him But i hope to at least reach 10% of his level he's my role model of a fantastic terran player should all want to be . Even iloveoov was not as celebrated as BOxEr but he's still brings the game home . Macrobot they call him and i believe flash is just the same with oov he takes whatever it needs to get the game in the bag and who gives a damn about people's thought about how he plays . He after all plays the game for himself and not for the spectator and I don't mind that he doesn't need to be Flashy in term of going cheeses or superb micro as long he wins that's already enough. .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Yggdrasil Leaf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
221 Posts
December 10 2010 12:45 GMT
#910
On December 10 2010 21:37 Sawamura wrote:
Flash I can't be him But i hope to at least reach 10% of his level he's my role model of a fantastic terran player should all want to be . Even iloveoov was not as celebrated as BOxEr but he's still brings the game home . Macrobot they call him and i believe flash is just the same with oov he takes whatever it needs to get the game in the bag and who gives a damn about people's thought about how he plays . He after all plays the game for himself and not for the spectator and I don't mind that he doesn't need to be Flashy in term of going cheeses or superb micro as long he wins that's already enough. .


His micro IS superb and even when he loses the games are usually entertaining. The Kal game was a fine one.
"A person hears only what they understand" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
December 10 2010 15:11 GMT
#911
On December 10 2010 19:16 Lightwip wrote:
It's really basically that if someone suddenly loses, all the people that don't like him become more vocal. I don't think that people change their minds too often.
Yes, I can admire Flash's success through continued innovation. But 'inspiring' is the last word that comes to mind when describing Flash games.

If you don't find Flahs play in his serie against Fantasy inspiring, nobody can help you.
And it's not as if he has revolutioned the 3 match up he plays.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
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