EPTHis fans are not any more annoying than Jaedong or Bisu's fan-- the only difference is that he has been winning titles and thus warrants such praise. On the flip side, when Bisu loses a game there's either complaints about being cheesy (see: Shine) or map imbalance. When Jaedong loses a game it's either BO loss or map imbalance. When Flash lose, it's no different-- it's being cheesed or map imbalance... except we never hear the end of it like that one game Best won against Flash.
[OSL] Ro16 Day 1 - Page 44
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
His fans are not any more annoying than Jaedong or Bisu's fan-- the only difference is that he has been winning titles and thus warrants such praise. On the flip side, when Bisu loses a game there's either complaints about being cheesy (see: Shine) or map imbalance. When Jaedong loses a game it's either BO loss or map imbalance. When Flash lose, it's no different-- it's being cheesed or map imbalance... except we never hear the end of it like that one game Best won against Flash. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
Players like Fantasy try new things which may or may not work well. (e.g. early +1 bio push vZ) | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On December 09 2010 14:08 bearbuddy wrote: What the heck is with this Flash hate. The guy gets the limitations and the play styles of terran. He understands the timings perfectly, makes the right transitions, and smash his opponents because he understands these things. Flash hasn't turtled in a very long time and bios more often than he mechs. His fans are not any more annoying than Jaedong or Bisu's fan-- the only difference is that he has been winning titles and thus warrants such praise. On the flip side, when Bisu loses a game there's either complaints about being cheesy (see: Shine) or map imbalance. When Jaedong loses a game it's either BO loss or map imbalance. When Flash lose, it's no different-- it's being cheesed or map imbalance... except we never hear the end of it like that one game Best won against Flash. Personally, i believe best won because Flash was out of form (just returned from WCG). Jaedong losing ZvZ is straight forward fail from him. Bisu loss to Shine was poor decision making. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On December 09 2010 14:38 infinitestory wrote: Flash does what's worked in the past, only to near perfection. Players like Fantasy try new things which may or may not work well. (e.g. early +1 bio push vZ) Not new? Flash revolutionized TvP. You're a translator, I'm pretty sure you know that the Chinese community calls Flash religion founder/leader and totally changed the dynamics of Terran upgrades against Protoss. Fantasy, on the other hand, we don't know how much of his shenanigans he got from Oov. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9174 Posts
On December 09 2010 14:38 infinitestory wrote: Flash does what's worked in the past, only to near perfection. Players like Fantasy try new things which may or may not work well. (e.g. early +1 bio push vZ) Complete garbage. Flash has contributed so much to Terran play and is constantly evolving his style to stay ahead of the competition. It's just not as obvious to the average spectator as Fantasy's overt creativity and since when is an early +1 bio push new? | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 09 2010 14:50 bearbuddy wrote:Fantasy, on the other hand, we don't know how much of his shenanigans he got from Oov. I wouldn't say that it subtracts anything from him even if all of his builds were made by oov. Starcraft is a team effort, or else players wouldn't play in teams. And a good portion of being successful is making a build viable. And there's no way oov could possibly make any of his builds viable. | ||
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ZavikZyke
United States382 Posts
On December 09 2010 12:59 Lightwip wrote: A few things. 1. His fans are pretty annoying(pretty minor reason, all fans are annoying as shit if you're not too fond of the player). 2. I never found his play too inspiring. Granted, there's a lot of stuff he does that makes me say, "I sure want to try that sometime," but Bisu and Jaedong(to a lesser extent, Fantasy and Stork) want to make me play their race and be good. That's quite a bit more impressive. 3. I probably have a natural bias against non-SKT/oldschool terran. 4. Turtling annoys me. 5. He keeps winning stuff I don't want him to. That being said, I'll take a look at your video. 1. I think all fans are annoying in general. That said, I'm guilty as well. But then again, without the stupid annoying fans, e-sports or life wouldn't be the same  2. Funny, cause I find Flash's and Stork's play a lot more inspiring lol. I guess it comes down to perspective and play style. 3. Not gonna judge you or anything. I'll respect your interests 4. Yeah, but Flash has been extremely aggressive as of late (especially with zerg) Sure he goes back to turtle terran ways, but at least he doesn't turtle like he used to. 5. This made me lol. | ||
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radialis
726 Posts
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okum
France5779 Posts
On December 09 2010 14:38 infinitestory wrote: Flash does what's worked in the past, only to near perfection. Players like Fantasy try new things which may or may not work well. (e.g. early +1 bio push vZ) Did you just come back from having stopped watching SC:BW in early 2009 or are you just rehashing the opinions of other people who did? Flash has redefined the way all terran matchups are played, and has used more unorthodox strategies than anyone else in the last 1+ year. And +1 bio push "new", rofl. At least some people have the honesty to admit that the reason they don't like Flash is that he "wins too much". | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On December 09 2010 15:03 Lightwip wrote: I wouldn't say that it subtracts anything from him even if all of his builds were made by oov. Starcraft is a team effort, or else players wouldn't play in teams. And a good portion of being successful is making a build viable. And there's no way oov could possibly make any of his builds viable. Just saying. The perception that Flash is an mechanic player while Fantasy is this brimming beacon of originality is simply not true. Flash just so good at dismantling his opponents that all the rape seems about the same. On December 09 2010 16:52 radialis wrote: Flash is definitely portrayed as a villain (possibly hated even more than oov). He has only been getting a lot of praise recently. Even after beating JD in 2 straight finals people were still predicting 3-0 and 3-1 victories for JD in the last OSL. Only after the last OSL was his skill actually acknowledged. I have a question though: was there map imbalance involved in Flash and Fantasy's losses? If map imbalance ever affects JD or Bisu, there's so much bitching involved, yet when Flash and Fantasy lose all the credit goes towards their opponent? I don't get why the moment a map is SLIGHTLY terran favoured, there's a HUGE array of bitching (see Polaris Rapsody, and even then that wasn't that Terran favoured according to the stats?) yet when there's a map that HUGELY favours P or Z (e.g. central plains, dreamliner) no one complains? And don't get me wrong, I'm not a blind Terran fan boy, I love modesty (particularly his ZvZ). Kal, eh, not so much. Shinhan Bear Plain is not an individual league map. There have been complaints about maps in the Golden Age of Protoss and Swarm season, but Terran has had far better success in the individual league than the other two races, having almost as many titles as the other two races combined. Most complaints with Flash fans actually is about KT not pulling their weights and Flash tiring out in the individual leagues rather than the maps themselves, since Flash is known to destroy protoss on heavy protoss favored maps anyway. For example, the infamous incident where Luxury lost his proleague game, went back home to sleep, and won his individual league game later that day while Flash carried the team and lost his individual league game. Fantasy is just Fantasy, he lost so many times to 9 pools because of his bad walls that maps would be rather irrelevant =P. I kid. I don't think Fantasy's deep runs involved unfavorable Terran maps. | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
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Caos2
United States1728 Posts
STX stopped SKT T1's winning streak. Kal stopped Bisu's winning streak. Modesty stopped Fantasy's winning streak. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On December 09 2010 17:24 okum wrote: Did you just come back from having stopped watching SC:BW in early 2009 or are you just rehashing the opinions of other people who did? Flash has redefined the way all terran matchups are played, and has used more unorthodox strategies than anyone else in the last 1+ year. And +1 bio push "new", rofl. At least some people have the honesty to admit that the reason they don't like Flash is that he "wins too much". Ya. It's so annoying when people spurt out that type of nonsense. -__- | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
On December 09 2010 14:38 infinitestory wrote: Flash does what's worked in the past, only to near perfection. Players like Fantasy try new things which may or may not work well. (e.g. early +1 bio push vZ) I disagree. TvP Mech vs 2 base reaver -> carrier. TvZ Denied 3rd base play TvZ Offensive early center m&m control versus muta | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
TvP Mech vs 2 base reaver -> carrier. why didn't he deflect literally this kind of Protoss play yesterday? O.O | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On December 09 2010 22:14 _Quasar_ wrote: why didn't he deflect literally this kind of Protoss play yesterday? O.O Usually only Stork/Rock has the balls/idiocy to go for a blatant reaver into 2 base carrier build lol. and Kal is niether of them XD. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On December 09 2010 22:14 _Quasar_ wrote: why didn't he deflect literally this kind of Protoss play yesterday? O.O Ya, why doesn't Flash win literally every single game he ever plays? | ||
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_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
I don't blame Flash for losing 2 games, I know no one can win forever lol | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5600 Posts
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