[OSL] Ro16 Day 1 - Page 45

On December 09 2010 17:24 okum wrote:
Flash has redefined the way all terran matchups are played, and has used more unorthodox strategies than anyone else in the last 1+ year.

On December 10 2010 02:55 hitthat wrote:
Amount of Flash hate really starting to be anoying. Looks like ever new "terran scum" is showing up on the spot, it dethrones all other evil terrans from the positon of major hate object.



Bullshit detected, sorry. Fantasy-Ovv-Boxer hybrid still winning with amount of "unortodox strats", even if this +1 rush was not that new. Scede your bias at once!

On December 10 2010 04:07 TwoToneTerran wrote:


Flash has done more weird things in every matchup for the past year that have WORKED than Fantasy. There you go.

On December 10 2010 02:55 hitthat wrote:
Amount of Flash hate really starting to be anoying. Looks like ever new "terran scum" is showing up on the spot, it dethrones all other evil terrans from the positon of major hate object.



Bullshit detected, sorry. Fantasy-Ovv-Boxer hybrid still winning with amount of "unortodox strats", even if this +1 rush was not that new. Scede your bias at once!

On December 10 2010 04:26 okum wrote:

Nope, I stand by what I said. To be fair, though, you can factor in that Flash has played a lot more games than anyone else, so he has had more opportunity to do unusual things.

On December 09 2010 22:14 _Quasar_ wrote:

why didn't he deflect literally this kind of Protoss play yesterday? O.O

On December 10 2010 05:52 _Quasar_ wrote:
By the way... Could anyone finally explain what are the reasons Aztec became so Protoss favored vs Terran? I just don't get it. Too open center + too easily carrier-harassable bases i guess... am I right?

Maybe then T should mass vulture and... omg probably even M&M? And then behave like zerg with hydra... :D

But seriously, this map seems all about mobility. Maybe some day we will see and OMG build which will astonish anyone like TvZ mech did ^_^

On December 10 2010 07:43 Fenrax wrote:
The problem with M&M vs. Protoss is that it is an all-in build by definition. They are relatively cost effective vs. Goons and Zealots, and especially if T catches P offguard it will steal a game. But you can't go late game, not even mid game, with M&Ms because they get destroyed by High Templars or Reavers. And playing vs. Arbiters with M&M is totally unacceptable. That also means that you don't even need to bother getting upgrades for your M&Ms and that you don't have the time, money or armory to get upgrades for your Mech units. And you also have Barracks instead of Factories so you can't transition into something.
So M&M is like on every other map an all-in build that will work if everything goes as expected and fails if it gets scouted or if the Protoss chooses a different strategy.

For the map: I don't think that Aztec is as extremely Protoss favored as the recent results suggest. It is no Central Plains. The long PvT victory streak is imo a mix of a good (but not unfairly good) map for Protoss and a normal statistical deviation. I think Flash had the right strategy going into the game and he came close to winning but Kal's early advantage was just too much to overcome. It is not like Kal is a nobody, he was always playing on one level with Flash (despite usually losing) and this time he had the lead and lead it to victory.

On December 10 2010 11:12 dukethegold wrote:
Talk about positional abuse, can even Flash win against that strategy from Modesty?

On December 10 2010 07:53 Xiphos wrote:


I wonder if you can go MnMs against Protoss and then switch into 3 Port Wraith build timed right to snipe HTs or kill the shuttle bringing the reavers. That would be the pimpest build ever!

On December 10 2010 12:12 Lightwip wrote:

I don't think that you could possibly have enough money to pull that off.

On December 10 2010 12:18 dani_caliKorea wrote:


lol he might be onto something (not really ). I think hes suggesting instead of tanks you make wraiths. Since they're the same cost, your econ isnt the problem. a control group of wraiths and pure MM forces hmm. I would think the MM army would be overrun by pure ground forces without tanks. Whatever happened to "i'll try your ideas on iccup thread'?

On December 10 2010 04:29 hitthat wrote:


Than you are clearly wrong or didnt pay attention to fantasy's play.

On December 10 2010 07:43 Fenrax wrote:
The problem with M&M vs. Protoss is that it is an all-in build by definition. They are relatively cost effective vs. Goons and Zealots, and especially if T catches P offguard it will steal a game. But you can't go late game, not even mid game, with M&Ms because they get destroyed by High Templars or Reavers. And playing vs. Arbiters with M&M is totally unacceptable. That also means that you don't even need to bother getting upgrades for your M&Ms and that you don't have the time, money or armory to get upgrades for your Mech units. And you also have Barracks instead of Factories so you can't transition into something.
So M&M is like on every other map an all-in build that will work if everything goes as expected and fails if it gets scouted or if the Protoss chooses a different strategy.

For the map: I don't think that Aztec is as extremely Protoss favored as the recent results suggest. It is no Central Plains. The long PvT victory streak is imo a mix of a good (but not unfairly good) map for Protoss and a normal statistical deviation. I think Flash had the right strategy going into the game and he came close to winning but Kal's early advantage was just too much to overcome. It is not like Kal is a nobody, he was always playing on one level with Flash (despite usually losing) and this time he had the lead and lead it to victory.