Banner thanks to mustaju, myself, and KasPra, other graphics taken from disciple. Also, if you like truth, feel free to click the banner. If you prefer lies, click here. Saturday, November 13, 2010 13:00, Channel OnGameNet
TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both And be one traveler, long I stood And looked down one as far as I could To where it bent in the undergrowth. + Show Spoiler [The STX Road] +
"It’s a bit redundant to write the predictions section if you basically know the REAL end result already. Nevertheless, since some are pretty stubborn about their own fever dreams, lets go over this once again, shall we? SKT is undeniably one of the stronger teams this season, and their winstreak might give people the wrong idea that this match is going to be onesided in the favor of SKT. Boy, are you ever wrong. There are a few presumptions that have lead to such a misnomer, so let’s take a look at them:
1. Bisu is on an unbeatable winstreak.
2. SKT is a deep team that has lots of viable options.
3. STX is a weak team, as signified by their current loss-win ratio
First, admittedly, Bisu has a very high win percentage indeed. He basically gets the ground worshipped whenever he comes up on TL. But is it justified? If you take a closer look, it involves only hardly slumping Terrans (fOrGG, Really), mediocre players and great, who pardon the pun, isn’t doing that great either. The only real threats to Bisu who Bisu beat were Soulkey (In Bisu’s strongest matchup!) and Stork (in a funny foreign tournament noone even cares about). Kal is the only non-zerg player with a shot at the ro16 in any individual tournament whom Bisu has played. And on that note, he is now a total 3-5 against Kal, with 4 losses in this half of 2010. Unbeatable? I think not. Actually, you are better off praying he does not meet Kal or Classic/Frozen, because I predict a sudden fall from fanboy-Bonjiwa status otherwise.
2. While it’s true that SKT is a deep team, they will be hard-pressed to counter everything STX can throw at them. STX has played 3 Protoss, or 4 Terrans this season, and 5 Zergs is completely feasible, considering their performance in the indicidual leagues.A lot of the SKT core, in particular the “star players” have notable deficiencies in certain MU-s. Ask Best why he doesn’t get to play in the individual leagues this winter. Or Bisu about the last time he played Cuteangel, or Sea. They have notable weak points (Bisu less and less, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a no-name Terran knocks him out early), and a rather fragile team atmosphere, it seems. Or doesn’t anyone else find it a co-incidence that July, Gorush, and Bisu, of all people, started performing way worse when they switched teams to SKT, and suddenly re-emerged on other teams, like ACE and STX? Or Frozean, who became remarkably more solid after being the 12-loss Terran on Samsung? Long story short, while SKT does have a deep lineup, STX 1-ups them easy in that regard, and is a real pain to snipe. And as for the team morale, something must have been horribly wrong in SKT town for a long while. Maybe the Girl Group dances helped remedy what was wrong earlier. But a sign of a strong TEAM escapes me.
They would make a cute Orange Caramel cover band though.
3. STX is not weak now, it’s actually on fire. Even the staunchest STX fanboy has to admit that their team is one of extreme heights and extreme lows. And if the individual leagues are any indicator, even Modesty got into a round of 16! Calm won the MSL wildcard tournament, and Kal had one hell of an impressive showing against WeMade Ace Baby in the OSL. If that’s not an extreme high, I don’t know what is. If SKT is foolhardy enough to dismiss STX easily, they are in for a horrible awakening.
The higher SKT is right now, the harder it will fall. At the very least, expect a very hard battle if not a complete smackdown that leaves the high and mighty team disarrayed for a lot of the second round. If not now, STX is going to stomp SKT into the ground later, because they have the human resources to replace slumping players. Be afraid of losing your unbeatable status, SKT fanboys. Be VERY afraid.
As for simple fans, who simply want to see some good starcraft, I think this match will deliver. And afterwards, we will set aside our differences. The earliest version of the above banner was made to commemorate the event that symbolizes the unison of all BW fans.
But as of right now, let the battle commence, and may the best team win. STX fighting!"
Right now, SKT is in good of a shape as it has ever been. Bisu has returned from his 2010 slump, Fantasy has all but recovered from his early season slump, Best was able to defeat Flash, free, and Stork in his games, and the zergs, especially Soo, are in the form of their lives. STX, on the other hand, is now a washed up team. Clam is here to stay, and Kal cannot win when it really matters. Time and time again, they wanted to defeat SKT, but they failed. Look at the past 2 SKT Masters Cups and the 09-10 Proleague season. You will see that STX has no chance at victory this time around. STX is the team of disappointments. They can be around and look good, but when push comes to shove, when something really matters, they simply fall apart and lose. Just look at last season. STX worked so hard to get up to #2, but in the end they went home with the bronze after being 2-0'd. In addition, SKT possesses the moral advantage. Look at the STX lineup. Kal, Clam, by.hero, Modesty, and Bogus. Kal and Bogus are notorious for going far in tournaments only to get crushed in the end, eliminating good players along the way. The rest are known frequent cheesers with no skill, simply cheesing through their games instead of playing standard. SKT has a moral obligation to cleanse the playoff roster of these evils. STX will share the same fate today. Your chicken stores have run dry, and now you will crumble to superior play.
hmm, this is probably the last big stepping stone to an undefeated round. btw has there ever in history of proleague been an undefeated round by any team?
On November 11 2010 19:59 Black Gun wrote: hmm, this is probably the last big stepping stone to an undefeated round. btw has there ever in history of proleague been an undefeated round by any team?
Last year KT went 10-1 in R1 and R3, and that's just about as good as any team ever did, so it's definitely a possibility. Let's just hope STX doesn't win this time around. I would be sad if they did. Although losing to OZ would just be flat out depressing. Not really sure how STX compares to other teams right now though, but unless something crazy happens(aka SKT zergs deciding to be failures), then SKT should win. I'd place STX somewhere below KT(back when they didn't return to KTFlash) and Stars. + Show Spoiler +
That being said, Kal is still pretty good until he wants to disappoint, so that may be a problem. Also, who knows whether or not Fantasy will do something weird.
SKT has already had two Ace matches to fight off, and I reckon STX are coming good. I hope we don't see another Ace match to decide this one, but I think this match is going to be closer than I'd prefer.
Tough to predict against SKT, but if there's a team to take them down, it's going to be STX. Should be a hard-fought match that's decided in ace match!
mind telling why STX would not be using their best player?
it ended in the 5th set.
uh... central plains being such a P map... there is no way you're seeing modesty on central plains.
we'll probably see shuttle sniping bisu on this map
I think SKT would either send Best or someone like Canata/Hyuk on central plains because it's more likely than not going to be Shuttle as the opponent. I don't think they really want to send Bisu, especially because he said he doesn't really like that map.
mind telling why STX would not be using their best player?
it ended in the 5th set.
uh... central plains being such a P map... there is no way you're seeing modesty on central plains.
we'll probably see shuttle sniping bisu on this map
I think SKT would either send Best or someone like Canata/Hyuk on central plains because it's more likely than not going to be Shuttle as the opponent. I don't think they really want to send Bisu, especially because he said he doesn't really like that map.
uhh really? The only comment about Central Plains I heard from Bisu was that it was very Protoss favored.
mind telling why STX would not be using their best player?
it ended in the 5th set.
uh... central plains being such a P map... there is no way you're seeing modesty on central plains.
we'll probably see shuttle sniping bisu on this map
I think SKT would either send Best or someone like Canata/Hyuk on central plains because it's more likely than not going to be Shuttle as the opponent. I don't think they really want to send Bisu, especially because he said he doesn't really like that map.
uhh really? The only comment about Central Plains I heard from Bisu was that it was very Protoss favored.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'll look later. But I hope they don't send Bisu, that would simply be wasting the ace on a player who is mediocre outside of PvP.
mind telling why STX would not be using their best player?
it ended in the 5th set.
uh... central plains being such a P map... there is no way you're seeing modesty on central plains.
we'll probably see shuttle sniping bisu on this map
I think SKT would either send Best or someone like Canata/Hyuk on central plains because it's more likely than not going to be Shuttle as the opponent. I don't think they really want to send Bisu, especially because he said he doesn't really like that map.
uhh really? The only comment about Central Plains I heard from Bisu was that it was very Protoss favored.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'll look later. But I hope they don't send Bisu, that would simply be wasting the ace on a player who is mediocre outside of PvP.
Sending Bisu would be a mistake, they're better off sending Hyuk here.
Hyuk does have a history of humiliating STX, it's true. I think they'll still probably send Best. Honestly, Shuttle's been getting stomped in PvP so much recently, SKT won't have to mindgame this one.
On November 12 2010 14:35 BrownBear wrote: Hyuk does have a history of humiliating STX, it's true. I think they'll still probably send Best. Honestly, Shuttle's been getting stomped in PvP so much recently, SKT won't have to mindgame this one.
Best could probably win against shuttle, but I think sending Hyuk set 1 is more a matter of virtually guaranteeing Hyuk a protoss opponent. And guaranteeing him a toss opponent is like guaranteeing the win. 'Dat 57% winrate mang. But key word is "like", since in any game there's a varying probability Hyuk will Hyuk himself :n
Behold, the last true obstacle before SKT can rape the first round undefeated.
STX's lineup is really flimsy in the sense that they are perfectly capable of opening up a can of rape and compete against the best of the best on a good day and just fall apart with pants down on a bad day.
Look forward to the match. Here is to Bisu and all killing the entire round without defeat.
On November 12 2010 03:39 Metalwing wrote: Coach Park is so straightforward. STX coach may outsmart him and can even ezpz SKT1.
just like how the STX coach outsmarted SKT in the playoffs and the Masters cup mirite?
Well the masters cup was just basically STX rolling over and dying (twice in a row!), so not much the coach could have done then ('cept train his players better) but it's amazing how fans think STX's coach is such a genius when the signs of his failures are spread everywhere else to be seen.
On November 12 2010 03:39 Metalwing wrote: Coach Park is so straightforward. STX coach may outsmart him and can even ezpz SKT1.
just like how the STX coach outsmarted SKT in the playoffs and the Masters cup mirite?
Well the masters cup was just basically STX rolling over and dying (twice in a row!), so not much the coach could have done then ('cept train his players better) but it's amazing how fans think STX's coach is such a genius when the signs of his failures are spread everywhere else to be seen.
I understand the man. I'm somewhat of an SKT1 antifan (not a single player but Kwanro on there that I like) and this season is hell right now. But as for the coach, I'm happy we have separate coaches for all races. Definitely not so happy that the head coach makes really dumb decisions from time to time. (Leta vs. Modesty matching comes to mind).
And finally, the match: STX has a good chance to make it work with + Show Spoiler +
Updated with predictions, thanks mustaju! In other new, I'm trying to design a banner for SKT vs Oz, can anyone recommend a font for me? I'm kinda stuck on that.
On November 13 2010 09:50 Lightwip wrote: Updated with predictions, thanks mustaju! In other new, I'm trying to design a banner for SKT vs Oz, can anyone recommend a font for me? I'm kinda stuck on that.
Bisu and Jaedong heads photo shoped onto a picture of a pro arm wrestling contest.
You'd have to be delusional to say that Bisu performed better in MBC, or that Gorush performed better in ACE. Even July didn't really do much in STX, other than winning the OSL then disappearing afterwards.
On November 13 2010 09:50 Lightwip wrote: Updated with predictions, thanks mustaju! In other new, I'm trying to design a banner for SKT vs Oz, can anyone recommend a font for me? I'm kinda stuck on that.
Trolls aside, Kal does have a lot of haters on TL. I think its just because so many people like Bisu and Stork and don't want to share the Protoss spotlight.
On November 13 2010 11:54 moopie wrote: trolls aside, Kal does have a lot of haters on TL, I think its just because so many people like Bisu and Stork and don't want to share the Protoss spotlight.
For me, it's not that, I'd be happy to like him. It's just that whenever I need him to take out a player I don't like, he just disappoints. The only protoss I can ever forgive for being disappointing is Bisu because of everything he has already done. But someone like Kal has yet to have any achievements or reasons to be liked.
The hype in this thread is amazing, especially since SC2 took over Team Liquid. But this hype is without merit, anyone with more than two brain cells know that STX will roll over SKT T1.
On November 13 2010 12:10 latenharthh wrote: as i was saying before i was so rudely banned!
"Maybe if Kal was better than a retarded rat after taking 5 minutes in the microwave he'd have a chance, Bisu could beat Kal using only observers Kal sucks that bad"
so ,,, after reading the prediction even if stx gets lucky and somehow puts the perfect counter to every player best will face by hero bisu will face kal fantasy will face calm and kwanro will face modesty its still like 60 40 in favor of skt and thats if the counters are perfect i'd be very surprised if skt would not take it but i'm rooting stx
Just stick with the red one that bisu has on in the banner, it was the only good one we ever had (the old white one with vertical stripes wasn't bad, but not good either)
I am confused here, according to the Korean text position Sun should be red, but according to Cratonz's text Sun is yellow ? Would someone clarify it for me ?
On November 13 2010 13:12 kamikami wrote: I am confused here, according to the Korean text position Sun should be red, but according to Cratonz's text Sun is yellow ? Would someone clarify it for me ?
On November 13 2010 13:12 kamikami wrote: I am confused here, according to the Korean text position Sun should be red, but according to Cratonz's text Sun is yellow ? Would someone clarify it for me ?
Sun is breaking out, all cannons down, Shuttle arriving with more units, shuttle with a nice storm over Sun's zealots. A lot of storms going off from Shuttle.
Most of Sun's forces wiped out Shuttle is moving in Sun with some nice harassment buys him time to make more units Here we go... MASSIVE STORMS Shuttle is running this time!
On November 13 2010 13:28 Doraemon wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOOO. we need streamers =[
bobba that lol, at least you got the chinese streams. im trying to watch stars' match and i cant neven figure out how to change it from skt1 v stx on the chinese ones
Interesting idea, the reaver-battery-cannon did better than I thought (made me think of colony blockade on Medusa before Bisu whined about it it was modified). But Shuttle didn't expand enough and didn't cover his own ass and basically lost to a 2(?) hp dt and storm drops. Well played by Sun... (get it... by.Sun?)
On November 13 2010 13:30 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Shuttle taps out. Wow, just wow. I'm mightily impressed with Sun after that game. To show so much composure in that situation was impressive.
On November 13 2010 13:35 night terrors wrote: How does one watch at PLU? It shows just a keyboard ad.
You click on one of the buttons along the bottom e.g. PPlive, uuSee. They require you to install the software first. I use PPlive b/c I found it the easiest to install. From memory when you click on the PPlive button without the software installed then it asks if you want to install it.
Now that we have Kiante stream I think Craton should stream the OZ vs Star match for the other thread. I feel sorry that their fans don't even have a stream to watch. It's a dark time for us BW fans we should help each other.
Kwanro attacking Ka's nat with mutas, one archon trying to defend, meanwhile Kal sends sairs to Kwanro's fourth and takes out OL, two DTs stroll in but hydras take care of them.
Kwanro with a lot of hydras, like two control groups worth, zealots fight them off along with an HT. all the while sairs are killing overlords, there's still quite a few hydras left, and they are right at Kal's nat, kal lays a few storms down to kill more hydras.
Single DT scares off all the hydras outside Kal's main, sairs are nabbing a lot of overlords even with the speed upgrade they have. Scourge out to try and stop the sairs, sairs run off before and scourge can make contact.
Looks like kwanro is expanding again at 12, so it kal at 6
If Kwanro doesn't do something about that DT he will lose his spire, hydras and an OL come to stop the DT Mean while in Kal's main a bunch of dragoons and HT come out to try to defend and my stream has frozen for now
Kal expanding at 7, looks like Kal has cleaned up the drop in his main, Kal attacking at the nat now, Hydras can't hold and fall back to some sunkens, Kal gets in with his zealots. Kwanro pulls a few drones and transfer the rest to the main, storms absolutely devastate the hydra army. Kal looks like he will take the nat. More zealots streaming in now. The nat is about to fall
Kwanro is now making a lot of lurkers, looks like Kwanro wants to do multiple drops with them on the min line, but I don't think he'll be successful, Kal attacking up at 12.5 and my stream goes down. I don't think Kwanro will win this now, looks like Kal has the game imo
lol well thats another way of putting out the obvious
without boxer fantasy is lost and in a slump, best is good, but if he meets hero or calm its over for him, and if bisu meets bogus or cuteangel than he will fall to the might of terran, i think stx will take this. plus, i dont like skt (uniforms)
On November 13 2010 14:11 KTF_CloaK wrote: lol well thats another way of putting out the obvious
without boxer fantasy is lost and in a slump, best is good, but if he meets hero or calm its over for him, and if bisu meets bogus or cuteangel than he will fall to the might of terran, i think stx will take this. plus, i dont like skt (uniforms)
Bisu has his magical PvT slaying skills back and Best can't meet Calm because only Clam is left. And the SKT tongue shirt is awesome. Although Khan has best jackets.
On November 13 2010 14:11 KTF_CloaK wrote: lol well thats another way of putting out the obvious
without boxer fantasy is lost and in a slump, best is good, but if he meets hero or calm its over for him, and if bisu meets bogus or cuteangel than he will fall to the might of terran, i think stx will take this. plus, i dont like skt (uniforms)
Who DOES like the SKT uniforms? Not even Hyuk fans have standards THAT low.
On November 13 2010 14:11 KTF_CloaK wrote: lol well thats another way of putting out the obvious
without boxer fantasy is lost and in a slump, best is good, but if he meets hero or calm its over for him, and if bisu meets bogus or cuteangel than he will fall to the might of terran, i think stx will take this. plus, i dont like skt (uniforms)
Bisu has his magical PvT slaying skills back and Best can't meet Calm because only Clam is left. And the SKT tongue shirt is awesome. Although Khan has best jackets.
seems like they changed uniform again..............?
Bogus starting his starport now, first dragoon out for Best, trying to stop the scv from getting into his base, it gets in and does its thing, I wonder if bogus is now suspicious.
Single dragoon hammering away at the supply, tank is just sitting there looking, finally seiges up and scares that dragoon away, meanwhile second factory going up, dropship out and unloads an scv.
Best's finishes his dts and they make their way to Bogus's base. Two vultures drop inside Best's main, DTs break the supply deport and break into the base like badasses
They start killing scv, bogus looks to be in trouble with no detection. Ebay starting but I think the scv was killed. Mine being laid and DTs drag them right into scvs
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
You have to admit, recommending that bad DT game is pretty low. Especially since Kal's win wasn't recommended.
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
You have to admit, recommending that bad DT game is pretty low.
uhh what the fuck? How is that even a valid complaint lol
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
I'm not an anti-SKT fan.
edit: also, for the record, if you're going to blame team bias, I really dislike STX and think they're an all-around mediocre team. if that lends any more credit to my irritation.
I'm not even saying that DTs are unfair. If Bogus had been paying better attention to his scout, he could have easily survived the attack.
I'm just saying that BW would be a better game if DTs were removed. The only case in which DT use is remotely entertaining is in the PvZ Bisu vs. Savior style of play, but now that that has fallen out of favor, they might as well not be there at all because their only role is to rob us of an entertaining game.
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
I'm not anti-SKT fan.
I'm not even saying that DTs are unfair. If Bogus had been paying better attention to his scout, he could have easily survived the attack.
I'm just saying that BW would be a better game if DTs were removed. The only case in which DT use is remotely entertaining is in the PvZ Bisu vs. Savior style of play, but now that that has fallen out of favor, they might as well not be there at all because their only role is to rob us of an entertaining game.
DT rushes aren't even fuckin hard to scout, Bogus saw that Best's base only had 2 pylons which is a dead giveaway for a DT rush (or some cheese that requires an ebay to defend). They add a strategic layer to the game that helps keep other races/players honest and are hands down one of the best harassment units in the game.
Hey, lets make supply depot a req for Barracks, that'd take away the Bunker Rushes and make this game so much better!!!!
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
I'm not anti-SKT fan.
I'm not even saying that DTs are unfair. If Bogus had been paying better attention to his scout, he could have easily survived the attack.
I'm just saying that BW would be a better game if DTs were removed. The only case in which DT use is remotely entertaining is in the PvZ Bisu vs. Savior style of play, but now that that has fallen out of favor, they might as well not be there at all because their only role is to rob us of an entertaining game.
what? DT's raping shit is one of the most exciting things this game can offer. for the record, i play terran, and of course ive been cheesed my ass out with DT's and ragequited to some random peruvian toss. And i still wouldnt remove them.
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
You have to admit, recommending that bad DT game is pretty low.
uhh what the fuck? How is that even a valid complaint lol
Recommending bad games = getting scolded. At least how I see it :D
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
You have to admit, recommending that bad DT game is pretty low.
uhh what the fuck? How is that even a valid complaint lol
On November 13 2010 14:22 matjlav wrote: I understand that Bogus did a risky, aggressive build, and had a perfect opportunity to scout the DTs and didn't notice, but I'm just gonna say it...
DTs are a shitty unit and they bring absolutely no excitement to the game.
lovers gonna love.
LOL are you serious?
jesus christ anti-SKT fans being especially vicious tonight
I'm not anti-SKT fan.
I'm not even saying that DTs are unfair. If Bogus had been paying better attention to his scout, he could have easily survived the attack.
I'm just saying that BW would be a better game if DTs were removed. The only case in which DT use is remotely entertaining is in the PvZ Bisu vs. Savior style of play, but now that that has fallen out of favor, they might as well not be there at all because their only role is to rob us of an entertaining game.
DT rushes aren't even fuckin hard to scout, Bogus saw that Best's base only had 2 pylons which is a dead giveaway for a DT rush (or some cheese that requires an ebay to defend). They add a strategic layer to the game that helps keep other races/players honest and are hands down one of the best harassment units in the game.
Hey, lets make supply depot a req for Barracks, that'd take away the Bunker Rushes and make this game so much better!!!!
1st of all, I already said that I'm not saying they're unfair.
A reaver would have fulfilled the exact same role of "adding a layer of depth." The difference is that it would have actually taken something resembling skill to win with a reaver, rather than just "oh, i got my DTs into the base, gg."
bunker rushes actually involve micro/action. With DTs it's like "Oh can he find a hole in the Terran's detection?" -> "Yes, gg, that was lame." or "No, that was boring."
How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
On November 13 2010 14:29 matjlav wrote: I'm just saying that BW would be a better game if DTs were removed.
Stop trolling.
I'm not trolling, just being honest. The threat of a tech build that keeps TvP balanced is fulfilled perfectly well by the reaver, and reavers are exponentially more conducive to non-piece-of-shit games, at least in my opinion.
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm). Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
Anyways, just realized its gonna be Benzene and Grand Line, two maps we haven't seen Bisu play on. I wonder if they are going to send Bisu next, or not at all?
On November 13 2010 14:40 dani_caliKorea wrote: Isn't calm favored to lose against both Fanta and Bisu?
his zvp is better than bisu's pvz
You pretty much have no way to argue that when comparing their recent performance. Bisu has been looking pretty unstoppable in PvZ lately. Calm... has beaten Tyson recently.
On November 13 2010 14:43 ArvickHero wrote: C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm). Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
you really should quit trying, plz
have you ever taken a class on rhetoric? your way with words is remarkable
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
you really should quit trying, plz
have you ever taken a class on rhetoric? your way with words is remarkable
haha dude calm down. it's silly that people would recommend a game that's just a DT rush, but they're fanboys... that's how they are.
Dude keep the DT stuffs out of this thread please.. Whiners and QQ-ers are far more of a problem than DT is to BW's depth.. Go make a thread and bash DTs all you want.
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
you really should quit trying, plz
have you ever taken a class on rhetoric? your way with words is remarkable
haha dude calm down. it's silly that people would recommend a game that's just a DT rush, but they're fanboys... that's how they are.
...yeah, I'm so frothed up right now. I'm absolutely bursting with rage. (<- that's sarcasm btw)
Bisu's forge finishes and he places his first cannon and gateway. Bisu's probe still in Calm's main, Calm takes 11 o clock, core starts for Bisu as Calm techs to lair
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
1. So I said DTs are fair, I didn't say you said it wasn't fair. Looks you lack reading comprehension? 2. So whats wrong with more strategic depth? And its not like DT rushes don't take skill, since it relies on your deception, and then really good usage of DTs if played against a safe build or scouted. 3. DTs are still well used in PvZ, I don't know what BW you are watching. They also are of great use in PvP 4. That was my bad there, but most everyone disagrees with you in saying DTs should be removed ;l
if you want to continue the argument, send me a PM
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
you really should quit trying, plz
have you ever taken a class on rhetoric? your way with words is remarkable
haha dude calm down. it's silly that people would recommend a game that's just a DT rush, but they're fanboys... that's how they are.
...yeah, I'm so frothed up right now. I'm absolutely bursting with rage.
C'mon man, stop it. If you know you're right and you are calm then there is no need to keep battling to prove whatever you are holding to. It makes the live report thread worse off.
On November 13 2010 14:37 okum wrote: How would BW be a better game if DTs were removed? They're the best unit in the game to rage about when used against your favorite player (and conversely).
Yeah, also, when Jaehoon or Tyson wins with DTs, I think they're the best unit ever and my MBC tosses are so skilled and they're going to be awesome one day! that's kind of how it works.
but in this case I like SKT and dislike STX so team biases aren't really a factor here. I just really hate DTs.
C'mon man, we get it, you don't like DTs (and you happen to be Terran and you only think of DTs in context of PvT hmmm).
Keep your whine out of the thread, because there's pretty much no convincing you otherwise while everyone else thinks DTs are a great unit.
lol that is so not true and you know it.
so, let's look at what you've argued so far: 1. "DTs are fair." I specifically said that i don't consider dts unfair, but you lack reading comprehension 2. "DTs add strategical depth" -> reavers add the exact same strategical depth but actually take skill 3. "you're a terran player, of course you only think of the context of pvt" -> i specifically mentioned how DTs used to be put to good use for spectators in PvZ, but not anymore. again, you lack reading comprehension. 4. "everyone agrees with me." -> that is so not true at all and you know it lol
really solid argument you got there. you're right, i should just quit trying. there are no holes in your reasoning
you really should quit trying, plz
have you ever taken a class on rhetoric? your way with words is remarkable
haha dude calm down. it's silly that people would recommend a game that's just a DT rush, but they're fanboys... that's how they are.
...yeah, I'm so frothed up right now. I'm absolutely bursting with rage.
C'mon man, stop it. If you know you're right and you are calm then there is no need to keep battling to prove whatever you are holding to. It makes the live report thread worse off.
So, by this logic, everyone that ever argues anything ever is really angry. yup.
this logic is almost as good as the logic people have been using to say DTs aren't a shitty unit!
though I am getting a little irritated at people that insist on turning discussions about the game into a discussion of my emotional state. I'll give you that, that's pretty fucking stupid
Adun has finished for Bisu, small battle taking place outside Calm's nat with a handful of zealots and a dragoon, Calm has a lot of lings though and a few hydras, bisu wisely backs away
Bisu on the attack again, this time at 11, sairs are sitting at home, Calm has some lurkers heading towards Bisu with lings, they get into the nat, two cannons go down as the lurkers are placed
Bisu's jaw drops slightly as the probes try to fight them off, robo goes down as zealots come to defend, but Calm moves into the main, probes help fight off the lurks, there's still one lurker inside the nat.
Wow what the fuck just happened? Calm walks into Bisu's nat with 2 lurkers and maybe 20 lings and kills cannons, zealots, probes archons and the robotics facility.
Cannon finally finishes in the nat and zealots take care of it. A battle takes place in the middle with zealots overunning hydras, calm retreats his army of 4 hydras after the rest are decimated. Reinforcements arrive and Bisu backs off, sairs tunning around still.
Bisu is trying to trap Calm's army at the bridge, he catches lurkers morhping, 4 hydras sit there watching before the zealots set their eyes on them, lurkers finish and burrow but it's not long before they die from Bisu's army.
Bisu on the attack at 11, two sunkens there and hydras. More zealots streaming in now
Hydras arrive to defend 11, sairs kill a lot of OLs, none of the hatches are dead at 11 though as a lurker and some hydras fend off what's left of Bisu's army
Bisu taking his min only at 3.5
Queens nest is finished for Calm, Bisu's sairs fly over calm's main
Bisu is once again on the attack at 11, nothing but zealots, 1 dragoon, and a few HTs HTs throw some storms to finish what's left of the hydras and Calm GGs
I think that's the epitome of Calm, an excellent strategy that totally works, followed by complete floundering and lacking any of the control or decision making a player of his caliber should have.
On November 13 2010 15:08 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: bisu... next time pls. don't forget your obs... 2nd time now. you really got us worried there. good thing you won.
he didn't forget the obs.. it was warping in.. but the lurker got the robo before it can pop out
On November 13 2010 15:08 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think that's the epitome of Calm, an excellent strategy that totally works, followed by complete floundering and lacking any of the control or decision making a player of his caliber should have.
It was pretty much all-in considering he lost all his overlords to sairs in the meantime.
On November 13 2010 15:11 TanGeng wrote: That was terrible. Clam got overrun by basically all zealots and sairs. WTF.
By the time the HT arrived at 3rd all of Clam's drones were already dead so Bisu stormed like nothing.
It was momentum. He lost the hydras in the middle way too easy. Should have retreated to the middle, most likely. I think in total, his mistake is blown way out of proportion, as usual.
On November 13 2010 15:08 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think that's the epitome of Calm, an excellent strategy that totally works, followed by complete floundering and lacking any of the control or decision making a player of his caliber should have.
It was pretty much all-in considering he lost all his overlords to sairs in the meantime.
Indeed. His follow-up looked inept because, well, he'd just gone all-in. He didn't have a lot to follow up with.
On November 13 2010 15:08 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: bisu... next time pls. don't forget your obs... 2nd time now. you really got us worried there. good thing you won.
he didn't forget the obs.. it was warping in.. but the lurker got the robo before it can pop out
i thought it was a little late, but i really don't know the correct timing anyway. i just remember vs shine and he almost got killed by lurkers too
On November 13 2010 15:08 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: bisu... next time pls. don't forget your obs... 2nd time now. you really got us worried there. good thing you won.
he didn't forget the obs.. it was warping in.. but the lurker got the robo before it can pop out
i thought it was a little late, but i really don't know the correct timing anyway. i just remember vs shine and he almost got killed by lurkers too
He pulled back with no obs and pushed back in with 2. It's possible he left one hanging around, or just wanted to get enough that 1 scourge wouldn't force him back again, or that he figured getting the first one there would be too slow, etc.
Nice decision-making from KTY under pressure. Calm's original push on the Nat was well-timed - he really had to do more damage than that though considering the position he was in.
On November 13 2010 15:15 MrStorkie wrote: does anyone think that Bisu changed his unit composition favouring more zealots over dragoons this season?
definitely, all of his PvZ strats I've seen so far have a heavy emphasis on Zealots (Sair/Reaver into Reaver/Zealot push, 2 gate Speedlot). It's quite amazing how effectively he's been using them.
Hmm, actually I have similar looking games versus protoss (as zerg). May someone briefly explain how is it that Calm lost? How was he meant to correctly deal with the zealot muscle? Did he simply not have the income to back up his initial break?
On November 13 2010 15:15 MrStorkie wrote: does anyone think that Bisu changed his unit composition favouring more zealots over dragoons this season?
definitely, all of his PvZ strats I've seen so far have a heavy emphasis on Zealots (Sair/Reaver into Reaver/Zealot push, 2 gate Speedlot). It's quite amazing how effectively he's been using them.
the general counter for zealots are lurkers.. but it's amazing to see how bisu micros his zealots
On November 13 2010 15:15 MrStorkie wrote: does anyone think that Bisu changed his unit composition favouring more zealots over dragoons this season?
definitely, all of his PvZ strats I've seen so far have a heavy emphasis on Zealots (Sair/Reaver into Reaver/Zealot push, 2 gate Speedlot). It's quite amazing how effectively he's been using them.
I don't really think this is a change tough, hes just winning with it a lot more often because hes not dying to silly things anymore.
On November 13 2010 15:18 Hier wrote: Hmm, actually I have similar looking games versus protoss (as zerg). May someone briefly explain how is it that Calm lost? How was he meant to correctly deal with the zealot muscle? Did he simply not have the income to back up his initial break?
He had to succeed with that first push, after that he was a bit outmacroed. But lurkers are good against pure zealot.
On November 13 2010 15:18 Hier wrote: Hmm, actually I have similar looking games versus protoss (as zerg). May someone briefly explain how is it that Calm lost? How was he meant to correctly deal with the zealot muscle? Did he simply not have the income to back up his initial break?
i think the initial nat break didn't do as much damage as everyone thought it did
did bisu lose those probes? if not he didn't lose the nexus or the probes, so it wasn't too bad.
i think the key was corsairs killing those overlords.. and calm's follow up attack which he lost to mass zealots and an archon, without significant losses from bisu meant that bisu was actually in the lead at that point.
On November 13 2010 15:38 ]343[ wrote: hey what do you have against hot korean girls :O!!!
These specific ones have no talent.
Craton don't get me wrong I appreciate your stream greatly, you have great quality visuals and you have the PIP/good alternating between games. But lord, why must you play bad Kpop in between? There is good Kpop and bad kpop, I think this is bad kpop. What's more is you have them downloaded, afaik, on your computer. Come on man, stop wasting HD space.
The best part about this series was when that annoying little kid by.hero looked so happy as it looked like Clam's all in would work, but then Bisu cleared it out.
On November 13 2010 15:45 Piste wrote: okay i just came to watch this match, seems like were going at the ace match already. anyone could say who vs who is this?
thanks in advance.
You're now watching the other match b/w Oz and Stars.
On November 13 2010 15:45 Piste wrote: okay i just came to watch this match, seems like were going at the ace match already. anyone could say who vs who is this?
thanks in advance.
You're now watching the other match b/w Oz and Stars.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Its not too much about luck, blame the stx coach for guessing wrong or skt coach for guessing right. even if it was the other way though it would probably be the same way
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Then Calm would have been more likely to lost a ZvT then a ZvP. Despite people say how bad Fantasy's TvZ is, Calm's ZvT is a lot worse compared to his ZvP stats.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Bisu never plays on Grand Line first of all, and he would rip Last a new one because this is not the same Bisu from last season. Fantasy probably would beat Calm at their current forms, but that's up to debate.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Yeah, fair comment mate. I think if you're a STX fan then it's luck, while if you're a SKT fan then it's just very good MU prediction by Coach Park.
As I said earlier, I don't think there's much b/w the teams.
On November 13 2010 15:55 vishrut wrote: Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Would Last's chances against Bisu really have been that much better?
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Yeah, fair comment mate. I think if you're a STX fan then it's luck, while if you're a SKT fan then it's just very good MU prediction by Coach Park.
As I said earlier, I don't think there's much b/w the teams.
That was just one example of a possible lineup change that could have changed a lot. Benzene is pretty good for both P and T, and Grand Line SE, while T favoured, has had its fair share of PvP-s as well. Best got away with facing Bogus and Bisu played a Zerg again instead of a Terran. Sigh. Not to take anything away from SKT though, you guys played very well. Hoping for a complete smackdown from the other side next time, though.
On November 13 2010 15:43 domane wrote: Remember how SKT1 got a year-supply of chicken, at the end of last season?
It has yielded results.
wait.. I thought that was Oz?
No, it was SKT1. The STX coach promised their players a year's worth of chicken, if they could beat MBC. SKT1 trashed MBC and STX secured their second place and a semi-final berth in playoffs.
What happened afterwards was hilarious.
SKT1 fought off WeMade and CJ, then proceeded to eliminate STX from the playoffs.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
On November 13 2010 15:43 domane wrote: Remember how SKT1 got a year-supply of chicken, at the end of last season?
It has yielded results.
wait.. I thought that was Oz?
No, it was SKT1. The STX coach promised their players a year's worth of chicken, if they could beat MBC. SKT1 trashed MBC and STX secured their second place, meaning semi-final berth in playoffs.
What happened afterwards was funny too.
SKT1 fought off WeMade and CJ, then proceeded to eliminate STX from the playoffs.
No....it was Oz that defeated MBC and secured STX's 2nd place finish. >_>
On November 13 2010 15:43 domane wrote: Remember how SKT1 got a year-supply of chicken, at the end of last season?
It has yielded results.
wait.. I thought that was Oz?
No, it was SKT1. The STX coach promised their players a year's worth of chicken, if they could beat MBC. SKT1 trashed MBC and STX secured their second place, meaning semi-final berth in playoffs.
What happened afterwards was funny too.
SKT1 fought off WeMade and CJ, then proceeded to eliminate STX from the playoffs.
No....it was Oz that defeated MBC and secured STX's 2nd place finish. >_>
Ah ...
That was stupid. I somehow had the teams totally mixed up. My bad.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
If a team wins once, you could arguably talk about luck.
When a team wins 8 times in a row...such talk becomes somewhat farfetched.
On November 13 2010 13:23 ironcell wrote: sick storms, best trained sun well
You know things have really changed when BeSt is being attributed as being noteworthy for his storms...
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
Well, Fantasy is not that bad against Zerg as anybody are talking, but Calm lately have a serious problem wining with Terrans. That was clearly seen in last season, when head-to-head rivarly between Calm and Fantasy turned to one sided Clam vs Fantasy, when Clam was Fantasy's favorite bitch. I dont know how is his current ZvT form, but if it hasnt improve a lot, that would probably change anything.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
If a team wins once, you could arguably talk about luck.
When a team wins 8 times in a row...such talk becomes somewhat farfetched.
Fine. I'm willing to concede that it was either better decision making on a level I don't really understand, or luck today. In general, most SKT victories are deserved. As is this one. Doesn't mean you should treat us as walkovers, I think.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context?
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context?
I'm not sure what makes that relevant to what I said. I was just pointing out that the lineup is still set before the match begins. I agree with what you're saying, yes. But the map list is both predetermined and publicized, whereas the player list is kept secret.
By.Sun wants to become good in PvP to help balance SKT Protoss line Bisu and his PvZ is looking imba - even when he is losing a game he manages to comeback and win it. So he is 9-0 this season in PL with one game to go in 1st round against Oz. Kwanro is now on a two game losing streak, so s2/Hyuk are next in Zerg line to play.
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context?
I'm not sure what makes that relevant to what I said. I was just pointing out that the lineup is still set before the match begins. I agree with what you're saying, yes. But the map list is both predetermined and publicized, whereas the player list is kept secret.
Do you have any evidence for the player list being predetermined? I don't claim to know the answer. However, I would like to know for sure whether the coaches can make quick decisions or not.
I think player list is not predetermined because coaches sometimes say in interviews when we learned about opponent on specific game we adviced our player to play like this and that. Sure coaches try to guess who will play on which map but I don't think they know until it's announced for everyone.
On November 14 2010 02:44 Hazard wrote: By.Sun wants to become good in PvP to help balance SKT Protoss line Bisu and his PvZ is looking imba - even when he is losing a game he manages to comeback and win it. So he is 9-0 this season in PL with one game to go in 1st round against Oz. Kwanro is now on a two game losing streak, so s2/Hyuk are next in Zerg line to play.
bisu got lucky that calm sucks shit so much. calm had the advantage, any other zerg in the same position, even saint or princess, would have won
On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote: NEXT time.
hahaha bitterness is bitter
Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different.
In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm.
The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting.
So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day.
That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context?
I'm not sure what makes that relevant to what I said. I was just pointing out that the lineup is still set before the match begins. I agree with what you're saying, yes. But the map list is both predetermined and publicized, whereas the player list is kept secret.
Do you have any evidence for the player list being predetermined? I don't claim to know the answer. However, I would like to know for sure whether the coaches can make quick decisions or not.
That was the way it was after the scandal happened. There were a lot of posts about this on the forum. Originally the list was created ahead of time and published ahead of time. They just stopped publishing it and instead kept the matches a secret until they happened.
However, now that I am looking around the forum I am seeing a few recent posts saying what you guys have been saying. I'm not sure what the original source is or why they would make that additional change now but you might be right. I guess they could have slipped that in there at the beginning of the new Proleague season along with the other changes like Bo7. I didn't see anything about it until now, though.
On November 14 2010 03:29 Hazard wrote: I think player list is not predetermined because coaches sometimes say in interviews when we learned about opponent on specific game we adviced our player to play like this and that. Sure coaches try to guess who will play on which map but I don't think they know until it's announced for everyone.
Yep, interviews point to situations where coaches actually have more than one player prepare for the same map (or slot in the lineup). But it's rare.
The players are definitely not fixed before the game because a Kespa referee goes to each coach before a match to pick up a piece of paper with the coach's player choice. You'll see this once in awhile, because the broadcasters don't always focus on the bench when it happens.
On November 13 2010 18:00 Zona wrote: If a team wins once, you could arguably talk about luck.
When a team wins 8 times in a row...such talk becomes somewhat farfetched.
Fine. I'm willing to concede that it was either better decision making on a level I don't really understand, or luck today. In general, most SKT victories are deserved. As is this one. Doesn't mean you should treat us as walkovers, I think.
Whoa...my comment shouldn't be construed as a slight to STX at all. I just thought attributing SKT's victory to luck was a bit dismissive of the strategizing and preparation involved.
On November 13 2010 18:00 Zona wrote: Whoa...my comment shouldn't be construed as a slight to STX at all. I just thought attributing SKT's victory to luck was a bit dismissive of the strategizing and preparation involved.
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool? Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool? Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
no, zerg fends of easily, not to mention toss must defend his own base as well, since lots are sooo slow
On November 14 2010 05:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
December27th, 2009 TYVM.
lol really... damn time goes by so fast
Dec 27 is a different game. Bisu vs Clam was June 21 2008.
On November 14 2010 05:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
December27th, 2009 TYVM.
lol really... damn time goes by so fast
Dec 27 is a different game. Bisu vs Clam was June 21 2008.
I'm saying we won against SKT1 less than a year ago, not way back in 2008 like disciple is saying.
On November 14 2010 05:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
December27th, 2009 TYVM.
lol really... damn time goes by so fast
Dec 27 is a different game. Bisu vs Clam was June 21 2008.
I'm saying we won against SKT1 less than a year ago, not way back in 2008 like disciple is saying.
hey, you know I love you, besides the calm game is indeed from 2008, so I was at least correct about that one and you have smth to celebrate as well I felt really depressed as a bisu fan after the match
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool? Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
no, zerg fends of easily, not to mention toss must defend his own base as well, since lots are sooo slow
well a normal 2 gate is fine against 9 pool, the problem was that Bisu did forward 2 gate (placed at his nat) against a nine pool speed build, and failed to block his entrance :\
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool? Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
no, zerg fends of easily, not to mention toss must defend his own base as well, since lots are sooo slow
well a normal 2 gate is fine against 9 pool, the problem was that Bisu did forward 2 gate (placed at his nat) against a nine pool speed build, and failed to block his entrance :\
Did you even watch the game? It wasn't a 2 gate vs 9 pool speed build??
Bisu defense against the lurker run-by was immense! Amazing play he's soo incredibly baller right now! GoDDAM! I got the geek chillz watching it!
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote: i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool? Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
no, zerg fends of easily, not to mention toss must defend his own base as well, since lots are sooo slow
well a normal 2 gate is fine against 9 pool, the problem was that Bisu did forward 2 gate (placed at his nat) against a nine pool speed build, and failed to block his entrance :\
Did you even watch the game? It wasn't a 2 gate vs 9 pool speed build??
Bisu defense against the lurker run-by was immense! Amazing play he's soo incredibly baller right now! GoDDAM! I got the geek chillz watching it!