EPTTerran imba killed it.
[OSL] Korean Air OSL 2 Grand Final - Page 189
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Highways
Australia6122 Posts
Terran imba killed it. | ||
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crazeh
91 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:19 Highways wrote: gg Broodwar Terran imba killed it. Ah, your comments are always music to my ears  | ||
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crazeh
91 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:28 infinity2k9 wrote: He can win his way through Fantasy through pure confidence and Fantasy's bad mnm control and mistakes, but here he can't. maybe...but JD's TvZ looked better in 2007 then it does now. | ||
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Draffut
United States128 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:04 infinity2k9 wrote: Flash is 'bonjwa' cause he can choose the build he wants and ride it to victory, gg congrats... of course hes the best terran player ever but im just not happy with it. Zerg deserves a chance. Even a clever burrow move gets shut down with zero loss, wtf? Terran on 2base is literally unbreakable somehow, i know Flash is excellent at defence but cmon.. if done well you CANNOT break the defence at all. its actually impossible. Even after building an impossible to break 4 bunkers at nat, you can simply move to main and defend with no problem.. the units are too cost effective. Zerg usually have somewhat of a chance. Let me know when Toss aren't being molested in every match. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:04 infinity2k9 wrote: Flash is 'bonjwa' cause he can choose the build he wants and ride it to victory, gg congrats... of course hes the best terran player ever but im just not happy with it. Zerg deserves a chance. Even a clever burrow move gets shut down with zero loss, wtf? Terran on 2base is literally unbreakable somehow, i know Flash is excellent at defence but cmon.. if done well you CANNOT break the defence at all. its actually impossible. Even after building an impossible to break 4 bunkers at nat, you can simply move to main and defend with no problem.. the units are too cost effective. JD unburrowed those lings about a second before the mutas joined in, so by the time the mutas got there the lings were already mostly dead, he didn't time that attack properly (and the additional unburrowed lings were late as well). And zerg had a chance, remember swarm season? its protoss that haven't dominated much aside from the dragons in 08-09. Seriously, in all your recent posts all you seem to do is QQ about how JD is the greatest ever but terran is just too imba, nevermind the fact that Flash aside, JD was 70% vT this past year. So all the terrans suck ass against JD, but when Flash wins its "omfgwtfbbqhax terran imba!".. yeah sc2 forums are that-a-way. On September 12 2010 11:25 infinity2k9 wrote: He went 4pool because of the maps.. and by the time his first drop came swarm was nowhere near out in the 4th game. It was impossible to pull off somehow even though Flash did a failed 5rax, i just hate it. The fact a player like Light can be good at TvZ but suck at everything else completely is a good indication of what this matchup is like at true high level. One way a mistake is gg the other its a setback. Unless Zerg completely guesses a total build order win then they are behind... So clearly the reason why Skyhigh is good at TvT but sucks at everything else is a good indication of what that matchup is like at true high level.. oh wait. And the 5-rax didn't really fail, because while he didn't kill of the nat, he took out almost all of JD's drones, so he ended up breaking even (at least), just like how the 4 pool didn't really fail, even though JD didn't win the game with it, but he did take out almost all the SCVs. Yeah guy, you're kind of running on empty here. | ||
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Neo27
United States154 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Even though I cried about the result | ||
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CROrens
Croatia1005 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:49 moopie wrote: JD unburrowed those lings about a second before the mutas joined in, so by the time the mutas got there the lings were already mostly dead, he didn't time that attack properly. And zerg had a chance, remember swarm season? its protoss that haven't dominated much aside from the dragons in 08-09. Seriously, in all your recent posts all you seem to do is QQ about how JD is the greatest ever but terran is just too imba, nevermind the fact that Flash aside, JD was 70% vT this past year. So all the terrans suck ass against JD, but when Flash wins its "omfgwtfbbqhax terran imba!".. yeah sc2 forums are that-a-way. So clearly the reason why Skyhigh is good at TvT but sucks at everything else is a good indication of what that matchup is like at true high level.. oh wait. And the 5-rax didn't really fail, because while he didn't kill of the nat, he took out almost all of JD's drones, so he ended up breaking even (at least), just like how the 4 pool didn't really fail, even though JD didn't win the game with it, but he did take out almost all the SCVs. Yeah guy, you're kind of running on empty here. TvZ in 'swarm season' was 50% overall still. And just the fact he unburrowed a second too early caused him the loss, while Flash ran a whole control group of rines into stacked lurkers, how is that fair? I believe Protoss has a tough time too indeed and ZvP is also a ridiculous matchup at high-levels.. and these days when played well even TvP is favoured one way. I'm not a zerg sympathizer and if anything JD should have lost vs Stork.. Like i said before, TvZ is 54% overall. At such a high level this imbalance is going to show itself more. There's a whole history of terrans such as Casy and FBH who prove it already, i know no one likes to admit it but its seriously favoured one way. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:57 infinity2k9 wrote: TvZ in 'swarm season' was 50% overall still. And just the fact he unburrowed a second too early caused him the loss, while Flash ran a whole control group of rines into stacked lurkers, how is that fair? I believe Protoss has a tough time too indeed and ZvP is also a ridiculous matchup at high-levels.. and these days when played well even TvP is favoured one way. I'm not a zerg sympathizer and if anything JD should have lost vs Stork.. Like i said before, TvZ is 54% overall. At such a high level this imbalance is going to show itself more. There's a whole history of terrans such as Casy and FBH who prove it already, i know no one likes to admit it but its seriously favoured one way. Count the units going into that, Flash had 22 marines (with stim), 1 firebat and 5 medics in that attack (possibly a couple more marines in the back, was hard to get them all on the screen at once), since he went for a 4-rax aggressive opening. JD had 12 burrowed lings, 5-6 additional unburrowed ones and around 7-8 mutas. JD tried to play it more econ and get a midgame advantage (like taking that early 3rd), which is perfectly fine, but it doesn't work against an aggressive opening like that. I guess JD either expected a 2 rax opening from flash -> less marines, or that Flash would run forward so JD could unburrow afterwards and demolish his main. Doesn't always work like it, though it would have been a good strategy had it played out like that. It just came down to flash being aggressive, and JD building up for a latergame. JD was heavily outnumbered in that attack, and unburrowing 12 lings from under 20+ marines (w/ stim) a second before the rest of the units arrive doesn't help. That's like accidentally walking 6 goons into the range of 12 tanks for a second before realizing it and trying to back out, doesn't work well. I mean, if Flash goes 14cc (blind or after scout), people complain about his midgame advantage. If flash turtles off 2 base and mechs, people complain. If flash goes aggressive, people complain. You say that TvZ is very imba, which I would agree that it does favor terrans somewhat (though maps have a lot to do with it). But again, JvT is hugely JD favored (70% vs any other non-flash terran), no other terran can put up a fight against him. Do people cry Z imba? no. JD and Flash are just on a whole different level, they find ways around the race/map favoring with their builds and executions. You can't have it both ways. And 1-hit wonder specialists (i.e snipers) exist for every matchup, not just TvZ. It has to do with a lot of things, like their playstyle, strategies, practice partners, etc. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
The burrow might have worked earlier when Flash didn't have that many marines and a fb. But Flash must have sensed sth and he never moved out as he often does. So by the time he moved out he had huge army with an extra fb which really helps. And as moopie explained, Jaedong didn't timed attack well. But Jaedong was still in game at time though at a quite disadvantageous position. He needed to secure 3rd in time. He didn't... | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 12 2010 12:04 moopie wrote: Count the units going into that, Flash had 22 marines (with stim), 1 firebat and 5 medics in that attack (possibly a couple more marines in the back, was hard to get them all on the screen at once), since he went for a 4-rax aggressive opening. JD had 12 burrowed lings, 5-6 additional unburrowed ones and around 7-8 mutas. JD tried to play it more econ and get a midgame advantage (like taking that early 3rd), which is perfectly fine, but it doesn't work against an aggressive opening like that. I guess JD either expected a 2 rax opening from flash -> less marines, or that Flash would run forward so JD could unburrow afterwards and demolish his main. Doesn't always work like it, though it would have been a good strategy had it played out like that. It just came down to flash being aggressive, and JD building up for a latergame. JD was heavily outnumbered in that attack, and unburrowing 12 lings from under 20+ marines (w/ stim) a second before the rest of the units arrive doesn't help. That's like accidentally walking 6 goons into the range of 12 tanks for a second before realizing it and trying to back out, doesn't work well. I mean, if Flash goes 14cc (blind or after scout), people complain about his midgame advantage. If flash turtles off 2 base and mechs, people complain. If flash goes aggressive, people complain. You say that TvZ is very imba, which I would agree that it does favor terrans somewhat (though maps have a lot to do with it). But again, JvT is hugely JD favored (70% vs any other non-flash terran), no other terran can put up a fight against him. Do people cry Z imba? no. JD and Flash are just on a whole different level, they find ways around the race/map favoring with their builds and executions. You can't have it both ways. And 1-hit wonder specialists (i.e snipers) exist for every matchup, not just TvZ. It has to do with a lot of things, like their playstyle, strategies, practice partners, etc. Yeah, i agree with your analysis, sorry i'm just frustrated that it seems like no matter what choice the Z does they can fall behind unless its 100% perfect execution. I just feel bad seeing JD apologize for his play when really what could he have done... | ||
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crazeh
91 Posts
On September 12 2010 12:29 infinity2k9 wrote: Yeah, i agree with your analysis, sorry i'm just frustrated that it seems like no matter what choice the Z does they can fall behind unless its 100% perfect execution. I just feel bad seeing JD apologize for his play when really what could he have done... He could have played better...JD in no way played his 'perfect' game and lost because zerg 'can't win'. He miss microed and had bad control on many important attacks. | ||
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abcb
United States136 Posts
On September 11 2010 21:24 aeroH wrote: epic outro.. anyone know what this song is? It look like they licensed all the songs from Secondhand Serenade's 3rd album. Reach for the sky Distance World Turns Something More | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:19 Highways wrote: gg Broodwar Terran imba killed it. You must be loving SC2 then. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
Highways is my favourite poster by far. Whenever Flash (or usually if any other Terran) wins he will post one day later his comment about T imba. The thread is simply not complete without it. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:04 infinity2k9 wrote: Flash is 'bonjwa' cause he can choose the build he wants and ride it to victory, gg congrats... of course hes the best terran player ever but im just not happy with it. Zerg deserves a chance. Even a clever burrow move gets shut down with zero loss, wtf? Terran on 2base is literally unbreakable somehow, i know Flash is excellent at defence but cmon.. if done well you CANNOT break the defence at all. its actually impossible. Even after building an impossible to break 4 bunkers at nat, you can simply move to main and defend with no problem.. the units are too cost effective. Zerg deserves a chance? Is it really that tragic that after showing in every starleague finals since 2008 except EVER '09, including 2 ZvZ finals, Zerg only managed to obtain the gold six times? As a thought exercise, think of Yellow[Arnc]'s showing in the Bacchus '09 finals. Imagine if that was the best that race had managed to accomplish in two years. That nets you Protoss, with Movie's fluke appearance in EVER '09. EDIT: I guess that's unfair. You still have hope, so good on you. Keep cheering for your Zerg heroes! Don't let yourself get depressed by naive fools like me, the fact that I sometimes feel that cheering for Protoss is like cheering for RoKAF ACE, filled with dreams of past glories and getting ecstatic over the slightest win because my expectations have sunken so low. You know, Bisu and Best had a real mean streak going in the Proleague Playoffs. They didn't win in the end, but silver is still pretty good, right? Right?  | ||
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Kage
India788 Posts
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
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